Proposal: Jordan Staal to the Blues

[flyersfan018]

How about

Staal + 2nd rounder

For

Schwartz

That's pretty awful tbh.

 

[warrior67]

If Staal had a 4 year contract at 6 mil or even 5.5 I think the blues would be willing to pay a premium for the solid 2nd line 2-way center.
However, as with Backes and all other players that have size and use it often degrade much more rapidly than players who don't. So you have to factor in what he will be by the time he hits 31-32, which honestly is probably a decent or average 3rd line center. Definitely not worth his cap hit at that point, and he will still have 2-3 years left on his current contract. So his value in a trade has to reflect that.
Like most have said, Staal is worth more to the Hurricanes organisation than others. That wouldn't be the case if his contract term was shorter.

 

[bluetuned]

I know Backes played RW for much of last season, but I DO think the Blues need another center. The fact that Steen was lining up down the middle means there is still a need. Lehtera struggled in a big way. I'm hoping he has a bounce back year. Either way, all of Steen, Berglund, and Sobotka (if he does return) are UFAs after this season.

Depending on where those guys go, that'd potentially leave the Blues with 2 viable Top 9 centers, both on the softer/finesse side, and one of which who could only crack 35 points last year despite playing most of the season with Tarasenko.

I don't like Staal's contract, but he'd make our center depth look WAY better, and he'd bring back some of the size and defensive prowess that we lost this summer.

 

[Roboturner913]

Carolina is not interested in trading Staal at this point. He's too important to what they do in terms of team philosophy. Essentially, he is a younger David Backes, and that's not a player the Blues would've dreamed of trading 4 years ago when he was 27-28 years old.

The only way I can see a Staal trade is if the Canes are totally out of the playoff picture at the trade deadline next season. But I don't see that happening, and even if it does, I think they would have to see some pretty significant development from players like Lindholm or Saarela to know that they had somebody ready to step in and replace him.

Having said that, as for his value, I would take a younger but established scoring forward (Fabbri?) and a 2nd/3rd rounder.

 

[Ranksu]

Change J.Staal for Sebastian Aho and lets talk about trade.

 

[The Note]

Fabbri is completely off the table unless it's for some silly deal the Blues couldn't pass up.

 

[Chan790]

Fabbri is completely off the table unless it's for some silly deal the Blues couldn't pass up.

Staal is probably also off the table unless it's for some silly deal the Canes couldn't pass up.

These are really teams that don't make a lot of sense to make a deal with each other, at least around these pieces.

 

[Bluesman]

Talk about an exercise in futility, this thread. The initial premise was flawed that the Blues need a center to replace Backes. 1) Backes wasn't going to be a center for us in the future, and wasn't down the stretch for last year. 2) We have enough middle 6, solid defensive players who can play center (Steen, Stastny, Sobotka, Berglund). If we get a center, we need an offensive guy to pair with Tarasenko. 3) Blues also don't have the cap for Staal without sending cap back, and Car doesn't want cap dumps.

So with no cap space and no interest, how does the thread proceed.

1) Blues fans say no thanks, the premise is flawed and there is no deal that makes sense
2) Canes fans "But you don't know how awesome our guy is", which was never in doubt, just his fit on our team/cap structure
3) Blues fans make bad offers with a cap dump as the main piece after Canes fans just said how valuable Staal is to them
4) Canes fans counter asking for futures after Blues fans said they had no cap.
5) Back and forth ensues.....

6) Everyone realizes, the premise is flawed and there is no deal that makes sense

7) Back and forth continues for multiple pages...

The Blues are not in a position to trade for him(cap hit + cost to acquire), even though he would help the team and the Canes have no reason to move him otherwise they fall below their Staal quota...

 

[StLHokie]

Why would we trade for a guy nearing the end of his prime that gets paid 6m a year for a number of years, when we could have just resigned Backes for free? We let go of Backes for a reason, zero interest in Jordan Staal.

 

[Roboturner913]

Only in the skewed reality that is HFboards would someone at age 27 be described as "near the end of his prime".

 

[bluetuned]

Why would we trade for a guy nearing the end of his prime that gets paid 6m a year for a number of years, when we could have just resigned Backes for free? We let go of Backes for a reason, zero interest in Jordan Staal.

Backes is 4 years older than Staal, that's why.

 

[stl76]

Only in the skewed reality that is HFboards would someone at age 27 be described as "near the end of his prime".

Fair enough, tho Staal does turn 28 in September. How many more years would you consider Staal to be in his "prime"? It's a subjective question with no wrong answer, but I am curious what others think.

The point remains that if the Blues were really in need of a defensively strong 2C then they could have just re-signed Backes. If the Blues had offered Backes the same 6x5 contract he signed in Boston, he would be locked from age 32-36 with a modified NTC the final 2 years. What Backes offers with that kind of deal would be similar enough to what Staal would offer on his deal that it would not make much sense for the Blues to trade for him IMO.

One crucial fact that many in this thread seem to be over looking is that Staal is 6x7 from age 27-33 with a FULL NTC.

 

[bluetuned]

When Staal finishes his contract in 7 years, he'll be still 2 years younger than when Backes finishes his Boston contract (in 5 years). If the Blues could have signed Backes to a 3 year deal that expired when he was 35 they would have. Apparently they were open to going 4 years.

The reason why the Blues didn't sign Backes isn't because they don't need a player like him, it's because they don't need a player like him signed until he is 37. Staal is probably a better bet to still be productive at 35 than Backes at 37.

 

[Brendonhayden]

I didn't like the idea at first but after looking at his production and knowing he is a great shutdown center this is my best offer
Tage Thompson 2017 first and one of berglund or lethera
For
Staal at 5 million if berglund or no retention if lethera

 

[stl76]

When Staal finishes his contract in 7 years, he'll be still 2 years younger than when Backes finishes his Boston contract (in 5 years). If the Blues could have signed Backes to a 3 year deal that expired when he was 35 they would have. Apparently they were open to going 4 years.

The reason why the Blues didn't sign Backes isn't because they don't need a player like him, it's because they don't need a player like him signed until he is 37. Staal is probably a better bet to still be productive at 35 than Backes at 37.

I was really trying to point out the issues with their respective contracts. For Backes, after 3 years he only has a modified NTC. When he is 35, Boston will have at least the possibility of moving Backes. Staal on the other hand has a FULL NO TRADE CLAUSE for the entirety of his contract. Given the contract details, I don't think there is much chance Staal will end up on the Blues.

But just for fun, IF Staal waived his FULL NTC to come to StL...given the assets the Blues would have to give up to acquire him, resigning Backes to the same contract Boston gave him would have made more sense IMO.

 

[mgd525]

Why would we trade for a guy nearing the end of his prime that gets paid 6m a year for a number of years, when we could have just resigned Backes for free? We let go of Backes for a reason, zero interest in Jordan Staal.

This makes the most sense. I actually like Backes a little more than Staal as well. This coming from a Pens fan who watched Staal for years.

 

[Roboturner913]

Fair enough, tho Staal does turn 28 in September. How many more years would you consider Staal to be in his "prime"? It's a subjective question with no wrong answer, but I am curious what others think.

For team sports, "prime" seems to be ages 27-32. This is not necessarily their athletic peak, but the point at which their physical skills mesh with their experience. The list of guys who have excelled in the NHL well into their 30s is pretty long.

As far as his NTC goes, I suspect that was just a mechanism to keep him and Eric together. With that ended, it's probably a non-issue as to him waiving it. Especially if he had a chance to go to a team like St. Louis which would be an insanely perfect fit for him right now (not that I want him gone, he's one of my very favorite players)

 

[bluetuned]

I was really trying to point out the issues with their respective contracts. For Backes, after 3 years he only has a modified NTC. When he is 35, Boston will have at least the possibility of moving Backes. Staal on the other hand has a FULL NO TRADE CLAUSE for the entirety of his contract. Given the contract details, I don't think there is much chance Staal will end up on the Blues.

But just for fun, IF Staal waived his FULL NTC to come to StL...given the assets the Blues would have to give up to acquire him, resigning Backes to the same contract Boston gave him would have made more sense IMO.

NTCs aside, I just don't agree about signing Backes. You're talking about the difference between getting Backes who is 32 and already noticeably declining as a player, versus Staal who is turning 28 in a couple months. They make the same money, and Staal's contract ends at a younger age. Even if you're giving up assets to get him, Staal makes way more sense for the Blues.

5 years from now Backes is probably looking at retirement. 5 years from now Staal is likely still an effective player, and the age that Backes will be in May of this coming season.

 

[Got One Cup]

Staal has plenty of hockey left in him so stop the peak crap. He just isn't what the Blues need in a center right now. Stastny and Berglund are pretty good 2 way centers, we need and offensive improvement to put with Tarasenko at center.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ignoring any "value" discussions (as fans rarely agree on those), contrary to popular HF belief, the Canes are trying to make the playoffs this coming season. Trading Jordan for prospects, late 1st round/2nd round picks and/or a combination of lesser players won't help them achieve that. Canes are flooded with bottom 6 forwards and have no need to add more of them. Canes had a ton of picks this past draft and next draft they already have a 1st, two 2nds (Car and NYR), and 2 thirds (Car and NJD) so those aren't as important.

Unless it's a deal that makes the Canes better this coming season and the next couple of seasons, I don't see the Canes moving Jordan unless he requests it.

 

[Moosetache]

With all the NTC talk above, made me think of this and I dont know the answer.

If a player waives his NTC (for instance staal if he went to stl), would his contract still have a NTC once with STL? I was under the impression that the NTC was just to stay with the first team.

 

[sheriff bart]

JStaal's contract is pretty much in line with his skill level. Those scared of the 7 years need only to look at the contracts just doled out in free agency. Staal is the perfect player for Coach Bill Peters. Canes need offensive help, so unless elite offensive talent is coming back, there is absolutely no reason for the Canes to consider moving Staal...to any team.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I could be wrong, but it sounds like neither side wants to make this trade.

 

[StLHokie]

Only in the skewed reality that is HFboards would someone at age 27 be described as "near the end of his prime".

Jordan Staal's 5v5 numbers since he's been in the league:

Year -- PP/60 -- Corsi
07/08 -- 1.07 -- 12.59
08/09 -- 1.81 -- 11.49
09/10 -- 1.93 -- 13.58
10/11 -- 1.68 -- 11.69
11/12 -- 2.16 -- 12.68
12/13 -- 1.62 -- 12.37
13/14 -- 1.19 -- 11.38
14/15 -- 1.12 -- 11.56
15/16 -- 1.29 -- 10.48


Pretty clear that he was at his peak around 12/12 12/13 which is right in line with a lot of research that has been done regarding the peaking of forwards in the NHL lately. Peak comes closer to 24 than it does to 30. Take a look at the majority of the best forwards in the game. They are all at their best around the age of 23-27. Past that and production drops. (Ex: Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, list goes on..)


His Fenwick numbers fall off even worse.

His numbers have been going downhill for a number of years, and I stand by my initial statement.

 

[MinJaBen]

Jordan Staal's 5v5 numbers since he's been in the league:

Year -- PP/60 -- Corsi
07/08 -- 1.07 -- 12.59
08/09 -- 1.81 -- 11.49
09/10 -- 1.93 -- 13.58
10/11 -- 1.68 -- 11.69
11/12 -- 2.16 -- 12.68
12/13 -- 1.62 -- 12.37
13/14 -- 1.19 -- 11.38
14/15 -- 1.12 -- 11.56
15/16 -- 1.29 -- 10.48


Pretty clear that he was at his peak around 12/12 12/13 which is right in line with a lot of research that has been done regarding the peaking of forwards in the NHL lately. Peak comes closer to 24 than it does to 30. Take a look at the majority of the best forwards in the game. They are all at their best around the age of 23-27. Past that and production drops. (Ex: Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, list goes on..)


His Fenwick numbers fall off even worse.

His numbers have been going downhill for a number of years, and I stand by my initial statement.

He also went from the Penguins to the Hurricanes at that exact time. Hard to say the numbers he put up are solely a factor of age vs. moving to a team that was not as successful.