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Value of: Jordan Harris

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stevo61 said:
I like that these are recycled arguements you used for Romanov when he was the one wearing a Montreal jersey. Not long ago he was "Your Ekholm" or "closer to Seider than it would seem" and lastly my personal favorite:

"How's ROmanov a bust?

Guy is laying 20+min a night in the top4 and is only -3 playing in one of the worst team in the NHL..."
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Have I said that Romanov is a bust? Absolutely not. i am arguing that if Romanov was worth a 13OA pick, then Harris is worth a lot more than a "3rd or a 4th" as the poster I am refering to said. Because Harris has been a better defensive d-man than Romanov in all advance metrics minis hitting while producing offensively at a similar pace, playing on one of the 3 worse team in the NHL.

Romanov is a very good young dman, Harris is just as good if not better at everything else than Romanov besides hitting.
 
Why would we trade him though? He’s so solid and has played literally 1 full year in the NHL. His hockey IQ is so high - i would do everything to hold on to him unless an absolute overpayment is offered. One of the few defensemen we let develop correctly… why trade him when he’s just getting started.

I see a very solid 4th/5th D - with potential to quarterback PP2 and help our transition game and move all the way up to an ideal 3rd D… a la John Marino
 
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BKarchitect said:
He’s Jacob Bryson with an extra inch or two. I expect his career and value to arc similarly - a nice little and somewhat unexpected arrival as an undersized, slick skating but physically soft LHD who can play right away but doesn’t have a ton of upside and who will gradually be phased out by his original organization as they get bigger, stronger and more difficult to match up against on the blueline as they improve as a competative organization.

This is certainly the time to deal him to maximize value but he simply doesn’t have the kind of physical package GM’s lust after
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Has 2 inches on Bryson - and double the career production in terms of PPG in their latest years (which was Bryson’s second full season and Harris’ first)

Harris is a bigger and better player.
 
I see one of our surplus dmen (Harris or Barron probably) being included in a bigger trade, but for now just wait and see how they do
 
Mrfenn92 said:
Harris is in no way close to spurgeon
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Moreover...if Harris was trending to become a Spurgeon-like player, there's absolutely no way he'd even be remotely available. You find an effective young, developing, top-pair all around tough minutes defenceman like Spurgeon and you hang onto that like gold. You don't care if the guy is a little small and not that physical. That's a hugely valuable player.

Harris isn't really showing anything to indicate he's on track for that sort of sharp upward development explosion.

Mersss said:
Romanov 0.29ppg playing for a playoff team
Harris 0.26ppg playing for one of the 3 worse team in the entire NHL.

Harris being -3 last year only is a miracle bu itself. Playing 18:45 min a night (Romanov was playing 19:27 on a PLAYOFF TEAM).

so yah. Again. Bring me ONE STAT thay proves me Romanov is a better dman beside hitting. All advance stats prove that Harris is a much better defensive dman while showing similar offensive output.
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It's almost like you're going deliberately out of your way to flip around and misconstrue the meaning of these statistics. :laugh:

Playing more minutes, performing better in them, and doing it on a better team is generally a positive thing. Romanov played Top-4 defensive D minutes against good players and came out with better results...on a team that had better results overall. He was part of that.


It's like there's some victim complex where we're supposed to just assume all Habs players are secretly extremely good, because they survived the team as a collective unit being terrible. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

That's where i said, particularly in the advanced metrics...things can get severely distorted when it comes to teams at the extremes (cellar dwellers with a laundry list of injuries, or record-setting Presidents Trophy dominant alike). There are inflationary artifacts all around those types of teams. Player performance in either of those scenarios is suspect in it's translatability.

For example...is Kaiden Guhle a worse or less valuable player than Harris too? He's got some iffy metrics. Or is he a cornerstone of the Habs future defence, while Harris is being dangled by fans as "expendable"? :dunno:
 
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Jared Spurgeon's first two NHL seasons:
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Jordan Harris' first NHL season:
1694441659335.png


"if Harris was trending to become a Spurgeon-like player"
 

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biturbo19 said:
Moreover...if Harris was trending to become a Spurgeon-like player, there's absolutely no way he'd even be remotely available. You find an effective young, developing, top-pair all around tough minutes defenceman like Spurgeon and you hang onto that like gold. You don't care if the guy is a little small and not that physical. That's a hugely valuable player.

Harris isn't really showing anything to indicate he's on track for that sort of sharp upward development explosion.



It's almost like you're going deliberately out of your way to flip around and misconstrue the meaning of these statistics. :laugh:

Playing more minutes, performing better in them, and doing it on a better team is generally a positive thing. Romanov played Top-4 defensive D minutes against good players and came out with better results...on a team that had better results overall. He was part of that.


It's like there's some victim complex where we're supposed to just assume all Habs players are secretly extremely good, because they survived the team as a collective unit being terrible. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

That's where i said, particularly in the advanced metrics...things can get severely distorted when it comes to teams at the extremes (cellar dwellers with a laundry list of injuries, or record-setting Presidents Trophy dominant alike). There are inflationary artifacts all around those types of teams. Player performance in either of those scenarios is suspect in it's translatability.

For example...is Kaiden Guhle a worse or less valuable player than Harris too? He's got some iffy metrics. Or is he a cornerstone of the Habs future defence, while Harris is being dangled by fans as "expendable"? :dunno:
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Habs would only be interested in dealing Harris because of the logjam we have at LHD. Even if Harris becomes a Sturgeon type, we can't hang on all of our prospects.

Ir Harris brings back a RHD of similar value or talent, or a young top6/9 F, we'll trade him. Not because we want to, but because we can. And we can because we have Guhle and Matheson ahead of him and, even tho I think Harris will become a better dman than Wi-Fi, we need his physicality.

Harris gas played top4 min on a bottom dweller and still managed to finish -3 only, that is a miracle as far as I am concerned. If we aren't getting a 1st rounder, a similar potential top4 RHD or a potential top6 forward, we won't trade him and circle back when his value is even higher.
 
I think Hughes gets lowballed if he trades Harris right now. Sure the kid has good upside, some say as high as middle pairing. However, his name doesnt have enough "hype" to return more than a 2nd.

I am not sure if he goes through waivers if we send him down, but the other D in the pipeline can be sent to Laval. I've also seen/heard talk that it may be Wifi that gets sent down or becomes #7. My thinking is that Mtl should keep him to either maximize his value or have him in a position where he can take on minutes in Montreal, given the absurd amounts of injuries we had in the last few years
 
Dr Quincy said:
Again, I don't think you really watched him, which is fine I guess. But Harris has very good advanced stats. It's a small sample-size and his usage probably protected him some...

but on a far worse team, his Goals Above Replacement was better than Mattias Samuelsson.

He's a young, capable NHL D, so his value isn't a 23 year old F who is on the outside looking in. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove, other than you own lack of knowledge on the player outside of looking at his birthday on hockeydb.

More even strength pts per 60 than Samuelsson, Lybushkin, Jokiharju, Bryson and Clague. A little less (.03) pts per 60 than Power, but more goals per 60 than him.

His relative xGF% was better than Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Power(not saying he's in the same universe as Power and probably will not be close to Samuelsson in the long run).

The view by many is his ceiling is low as he's not big, and won't put up a ton of points. But he's an effective, capable NHL D.

I'd certainly rather have him playing than Erik Johnson and Henri Jokiharju and Connor Clifton. I think now that he's not on BOS you are going to see Clifton's adavance stats plummet. He's um.. an adventure.
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I’m sold on him. I mean, anyone who puts up more points than Lyubushkin, must be pretty high end. :sarcasm:
 
Junohockeyfan said:
Maybe a 3rd round pick. No point trading him.
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Well if he's gone long and someone (let's say Struble) earns his spot while he's gone, the habs will have to deal someone someday. Whoever it is they trade, my guess is it will be done this summer and it will be for something like a 3rd.
 
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