Value of: Jordan Harris

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danyhabsfan

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Feb 12, 2007
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Again, bring me one stat where Romanov is better beside hits. i'll wait

Harris defensive and offensive advanced stats were ALL better while playing on a shittier team
He had 2 seasons under his belt while being only 22 years old and hit like a truck which still has value around the league it seems. NYI also overpaid. He wasn't worth that much.

Harris is 23 years old undersize defenseman who hasn't shown offensive potential. He's worth a 2nd at best. Better keep him and hopes he turns into Duncan Keith instead of Victor Mete.
 

Wayfarer13

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Jun 21, 2020
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It is an absolutely huge difference. It's the difference between a guy who is physically imposing on the ice vs a guy who gets completely pushed around and framed out. They're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum of effective size. The difference doesn't get much more pronounced than that.


What exactly is Harris so good at that Habs fans think he's better than, and worth more than Romanov? Other than...still playing for the Blue Blanc et Rouge? :laugh: Seriously...what are ya'll seeing there, or is this a fancystats thing? Where Harris comes out looking "decent" in the distortions of a bad team, relative to someone like Savard getting catastrophically caved in drowning in the toughest minutes?


Because so far as i've seen, Romanov does everything at least as well as Harris if not better, while also having that major size and physicality advantage. The one thing i'd maybe give Harris the edge is in his first pass. But aside from that...Romanov played a Top-4D role with a raft of fairly tough minutes and a ton of PK duty on a better, very nearly playoff team and handled them pretty well. He also has the more dynamic skillset both physically and offensively. Harris played a nebulous softer Top-4ish role out of necessity on an injury riddled D-Corps.



Honestly...if you threw up a poll between Romanov and Harris, it'd probably be locked for lopsided results within 48 hours. :laugh: I'm really not getting what some Habs fans are apparently seeing with Harris here...while simultaneously suggesting that he's trade bait because he's not good enough to crack the Habs defence. Or maybe...what you're not seeing with Romanov?

Like i said above...just keep Harris. See what he turns into, if there's any more there. He's not going to be worth much as a standalone unless he really solidifies himself as a rock solid, Top-4D on a contender sort of player. Even then, he's what...basically a Sam Girard? You're just not going to get much value for him at this point, certainly not what you think he's worth, if you believe he's a more valuable piece than Romanov. Just let it ride.
Get the impression that the argument is that the two players are vying for the same first round pick. Think there are few to go around. Different player different skill set offerings. For Harris and the rest young cadre it is about health and development this year. The team gets both then filling out the roster can start next year and they will have the assets to do so.
 

Treb

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May 31, 2011
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Again, bring me one stat where Romanov is better beside hits. i'll wait

Harris defensive and offensive advanced stats were ALL better while playing on a shittier team

Reminds me of the time where a guy said Martin Marincin was one of the best D defensively in the NHL. Yet, he never established himself at the NHL level and was out of it at 28 years old.

32 out of 32 GM would take Romanov before Harris.

I like Harris, but he's quite a run of the mill skilled bottom pair D that can do spot duty on the PP or PK but never be the main option.

If a few of our D prospect hit, he will be shipped away or kept as a 6-7th D.
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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Again, bring me one stat where Romanov is better beside hits. i'll wait

Harris defensive and offensive advanced stats were ALL better while playing on a shittier team

So essentially, you're predicating this entire thing on the fancystats. Okay. Got it.


Going to gloss over discussion of watching the player, sneer at the value of physical play, dismiss all of the more traditional stats which favour Romanov nearly across the board. Not going to really consider context, role, or the obvious distortions of advanced metrics on bad teams. Especially ones that have other guys ahead of him to spend 1/3rd of every game getting their teeth kicked in with the toughest minutes to flatter someone like Harris by comparison. Okay.

If you detach from reality and dive headlong into that world as your sole barometer of player worth, it shouldn't really be surprising that your assessment of value is going to be similarly detached from common perception, and the reality of what a GM is likely to give up for a player.
 

HabsAddict

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He isn’t a top-4 dman, so the argument that he’ll be worth a mid-first if he becomes one is worthless because it can be applied to any d-prospect in the league.
Talking about worthless...do you actually think you are making a point? Did you actually read what you wrote?

Of course it can be applied to any prospect and THEIR value could increase If they become one. So will Harris IF he becomes one.

[mod]
 
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HabsAddict

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Comparing Romanov to Harris and concluding that Romanov is more valuable AT THIS POINT in their development is valid BUT it does not mean that a year from now it can change.

Romanov skill set is good and his hitting a good bonus but that takes a back seat to a puck moving defenseman.

Harris and the Habs coaching staff would be idiots working on Harris hitting ability versus developing his puck movement and offense. It won't take much to overtake the value of 20 point "hitting defenseman".

BTW...the reason Romanov was traded is because we already have young defenseman that can lay the body and more coming. X and Guhle say hello. We need more puck moving offensive defenseman.
 

HabsAddict

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Because he's replaceable. I don't think we should do it this year, but unless most of our D prospects bust, he will get pushed out.
Why assume that other prospects will bust vs Harris developing?

I don't see him beating Hutson and Mailloux but it's also too early to assume that Harris hit his ceiling.
 
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TBF1972

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May 19, 2018
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It is an absolutely huge difference. It's the difference between a guy who is physically imposing on the ice vs a guy who gets completely pushed around and framed out. They're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum of effective size. The difference doesn't get much more pronounced than that.


What exactly is Harris so good at that Habs fans think he's better than, and worth more than Romanov? Other than...still playing for the Blue Blanc et Rouge? :laugh: Seriously...what are ya'll seeing there, or is this a fancystats thing? Where Harris comes out looking "decent" in the distortions of a bad team, relative to someone like Savard getting catastrophically caved in drowning in the toughest minutes?


Because so far as i've seen, Romanov does everything at least as well as Harris if not better, while also having that major size and physicality advantage. The one thing i'd maybe give Harris the edge is in his first pass. But aside from that...Romanov played a Top-4D role with a raft of fairly tough minutes and a ton of PK duty on a better, very nearly playoff team and handled them pretty well. He also has the more dynamic skillset both physically and offensively. Harris played a nebulous softer Top-4ish role out of necessity on an injury riddled D-Corps.



Honestly...if you threw up a poll between Romanov and Harris, it'd probably be locked for lopsided results within 48 hours. :laugh: I'm really not getting what some Habs fans are apparently seeing with Harris here...while simultaneously suggesting that he's trade bait because he's not good enough to crack the Habs defence. Or maybe...what you're not seeing with Romanov?

Like i said above...just keep Harris. See what he turns into, if there's any more there. He's not going to be worth much as a standalone unless he really solidifies himself as a rock solid, Top-4D on a contender sort of player. Even then, he's what...basically a Sam Girard? You're just not going to get much value for him at this point, certainly not what you think he's worth, if you believe he's a more valuable piece than Romanov. Just let it ride.
the same poster was praising romanov as a skilled top 4 or even first line d, who hits like a truck, before he got traded.
i assume mersss is the french translation of 'complete homer'
 

hawksrule

Lot of brains but no polish
May 18, 2014
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Talking about worthless...do you actually think you are making a point? Did you actually read what you wrote?

Of course it can be applied to any prospect and THEIR value could increase If they become one. So will Harris IF he becomes one.

[mod]
Lol, it was your worthless point that I paraphrased and that you’re now agreeing is worthless. Buy a clue.
 

Mersss

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Jul 12, 2014
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So essentially, you're predicating this entire thing on the fancystats. Okay. Got it.


Going to gloss over discussion of watching the player, sneer at the value of physical play, dismiss all of the more traditional stats which favour Romanov nearly across the board. Not going to really consider context, role, or the obvious distortions of advanced metrics on bad teams. Especially ones that have other guys ahead of him to spend 1/3rd of every game getting their teeth kicked in with the toughest minutes to flatter someone like Harris by comparison. Okay.

If you detach from reality and dive headlong into that world as your sole barometer of player worth, it shouldn't really be surprising that your assessment of value is going to be similarly detached from common perception, and the reality of what a GM is likely to give up for a player.
If Romanov was that much better. Advance stats would be in his favor, which is not the case.

I'm not saying Romanov doesn't hold more value, bur uf Romaniv was worth the 13OA pick, Harris is worth at least a good 2nd rder or late 1st. Every Advance stats point him as being a future top3 defensive Dman.

Spurgeon would be a very good kind of comp, now would you say Spurgeon sucks?
 
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Habsrule

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Jun 13, 2004
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This who Ramanov VS Harris talk needs to stop. I don’t care about advanced stats, just watch with your eyes and you will see that Romanov makes much more of an impact in a game.

I do like Harris and he is signed to a team friendly contract. Two years at 1.4 million a year. He is a solid bottom pair defenceman and can play as a #4 in a pinch. His strength is that he plays on his off side and plays as a RD often.

The negative side about him is that he does nothing great. He doesn’t have big size and will be a physical presence, he is not really offensive although he is a good skater. He is not a PP type of defenceman. He is a guy who is solid enough to play and he has more value to the Habs as opposed to another team. Keep him until Reinbacher, Mailloux, Hutson and Engstrom develop and see who overtakes him on the depth chart.
 
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MrNasty

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Jun 13, 2007
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I have very little doubt Harris will have a long career in the NHL as a reliable 4-6 d-man. He would not be traded except for the fact the Habs have a ton of LHD in the system. He will eventually be moved as Matheson, Guhle are better. Xhejak plays better as the 3rd pair bruiser and the Habs will eventually have Hutson and Engstrom making it. Harris feels like one of the odd men out.

Eventually, I see him being moved as part of a package that includes other good but not star prospects/young players for a top line player that fits the window. Not now, but later in the season or next summer seems more likely.

Edmundson was moved to give both Harris and Xhejak more ice time so expect them to sort out who is in the longer term plans.
 

Mrfenn92

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Nov 27, 2018
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If Romanov was that much better. Advance stats would be in his favor, which is not the case.

I'm not saying Romanov doesn't hold more value, bur uf Romaniv was worth the 13OA pick, Harris is worth at least a good 2nd rder or late 1st. Every Advance stats point him as being a future top3 defensive Dman.

Spurgeon would be a very good kind of comp, now would you say Spurgeon sucks?
Harris is in no way close to spurgeon
 

dirtydanglez

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Oct 30, 2022
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not sure why the habs would make one of the leagues worst bluelines even worse. they should keep him for now.
 

Mersss

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Jul 12, 2014
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Assists?
Points?
Plus/Minus?

Is this a joke?
Romanov 0.29ppg playing for a playoff team
Harris 0.26ppg playing for one of the 3 worse team in the entire NHL.

Harris being -3 last year only is a miracle bu itself. Playing 18:45 min a night (Romanov was playing 19:27 on a PLAYOFF TEAM).

so yah. Again. Bring me ONE STAT thay proves me Romanov is a better dman beside hitting. All advance stats prove that Harris is a much better defensive dman while showing similar offensive output.
 

Wayfarer13

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Jun 21, 2020
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He was quite solid as a rookie. I'd rather give him another year or two to see how he grows.
This year for the Habs is about getting the health issues of the last couple years under control and development. If they can get success at both then they can start to make trades to fill holds based on need. They could be a team that will surprise this year.
 

stevo61

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Jul 5, 2011
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Romanov 0.29ppg playing for a playoff team
Harris 0.26ppg playing for one of the 3 worse team in the entire NHL.

Harris being -3 last year only is a miracle bu itself. Playing 18:45 min a night (Romanov was playing 19:27 on a PLAYOFF TEAM).

so yah. Again. Bring me ONE STAT thay proves me Romanov is a better dman beside hitting. All advance stats prove that Harris is a much better defensive dman while showing similar offensive output.
I like that these are recycled arguements you used for Romanov when he was the one wearing a Montreal jersey. Not long ago he was "Your Ekholm" or "closer to Seider than it would seem" and lastly my personal favorite:

"How's ROmanov a bust?

Guy is laying 20+min a night in the top4 and is only -3 playing in one of the worst team in the NHL..."
 
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BKarchitect

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To be fair most Habs fans in this thread are being pretty realistic. There’s a couple of complete known homers doing what they do best. Seems like everybody else is pretty much “he’s probably not got a ton of trade value and our kids aren’t all ready yet so let’s just keep him for now instead of dealing him for a rando pick”. That’s a completely fair take.
 
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