Prospect Info: Jonathan Lekkerimaki, #15 Overall, 2022 NHL Draft

[vancityluongo]

my feeling at the time of the draft (based on nothing but anecdotes from smart people) was that the middle of the first round was not looking great. wanted to trade down to get another pick and pick up one of the big RHD that were slated to go at the beginning of the second round

best move right now might be to package him with a contract and see if some team bites based on draft hype

 

[VanJack]

It isn't just that he's doing nothing this year, he is actually worse than last year. Showed more promise in a tougher league, then the team gets relegated to a weaker league, and he shits the bed.

Remember, our scouts were "pounding the table" for this guy...

Probably the same scouts who were 'pounding the table' for Oli Juolevi and Jake Virtanen.

 

[Gstank]

Mono, a concussion, and half a season and people are writing him off but, the same people complain about trading Forsling when he passed through waivers and spent his + 5? season in the AHL. Like seriously can we wait at least a full season of him being healthy before the doom and gloom posters start rambling the same garbage?

Also this is exactly why management wants young NHL players as opposed to draft picks because at least with NHL players you are gettinga roster player. While draft picks are at best a lottery ticket where you often end up somewhere in the middle because their proceived potential and where they actually end up.

Just like with Guenther I see people saying he already a better player then Garland where he is just below .5ppg 21 games into the season. His pecieved value by posters is a lot higher then Garlands and there is still a good chance that he tops out at 50-60 points a season just like Garland

Double standards are real on this forum. Almost daily I see people complain about losing Forsling who was traded twice and passed through waivers 1 or 2 times as well before having a resurgence and becoming a top 4 Dman

 

[Prntscrn]

To be fair, it seems like all of Ostlund and Ohgren are struggling too… could be a team/coaching thing?

Not really. Östlund has been good all season, could probably wish for a slightly higher production but overall play has been good. Öhgren did struggle but has picked it up the last month or so.


On the other hand I think Lekkerimäki has so much more in him than he is currently getting out. Wouldn’t be the first prospect with a second season slump. Honestly Holtz felt very much the same his last season in Djurgården. There is growth to be gained in rough patches too

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Mono, a concussion, and half a season and people are writing him off but, the same people complain about trading Forsling when he passed through waivers and spent his + 5? season in the AHL. Like seriously can we wait at least a full season of him being healthy before the doom and gloom posters start rambling the same garbage?

Also this is exactly why management wants young NHL players as opposed to draft picks because at least with NHL players you are gettinga roster player. While draft picks are at best a lottery ticket where you often end up somewhere in the middle because their proceived potential and where they actually end up.

Just like with Guenther I see people saying he already a better player then Garland where he is just below .5ppg 21 games into the season. His pecieved value by posters is a lot higher then Garlands and there is still a good chance that he tops out at 50-60 points a season just like Garland

Double standards are real on this forum. Almost daily I see people complain about losing Forsling who was traded twice and passed through waivers 1 or 2 times as well before having a resurgence and becoming a top 4 Dman

You can ignore where he is trending if you think that is the best approach.

Most people here wont.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

You can ignore where he is trending if you think that is the best approach.

Most people here wont.

many people here chase their tail and don't own up to how mercurial they are.

How many on this board wanted Petey gone last year?

How many wanted Hughes gone in the shortened season?

I'm not immune to being wrong and I'm happy to talk about those times too. But the knee-jerk responses and then lack of accountability kind of kill the ability to have earnest conversations.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

many people here chase their tail and don't own up to how mercurial they are.

How many on this board wanted Petey gone last year?

How many wanted Hughes gone in the shortened season?

I'm not immune to being wrong and I'm happy to talk about those times too. But the knee-jerk responses and then lack of accountability kind of kill the ability to have earnest conversations.

Knee jerk opinions are easier to ignore since they are generally short-lived or “one offs” that go away fairly quickly. I much prefer them over bad faith arguments built on years of evidence (like continuing to support the previous management regime even after the OEL trade, lol). Of course, neither are ideal, but the latter is more annoying and unreasonable.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

You can ignore where he is trending if you think that is the best approach.

Most people here wont.

Off the top of my head, a list of players the Canucks have drafted in the first round that had fairly disappointing draft +1 seasons:

-Juolevi
-Virtanen
-Shinkaruk
-Gaunce (although he had a good playoffs and was a late 1st)
-Jensen
-Schroeder
-White

But I’m sure it will be different this time.

 

[Canucks LB]

The only way I will have hope with this prospect is if they properly develop him, leave him down in the minors for at least two or three years, and build him up

 

[PuckMunchkin]

many people here chase their tail and don't own up to how mercurial they are.

How many on this board wanted Petey gone last year?

How many wanted Hughes gone in the shortened season?

I'm not immune to being wrong and I'm happy to talk about those times too. But the knee-jerk responses and then lack of accountability kind of kill the ability to have earnest conversations.

I would really love it if everyone was just able to own their mistakes.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

many people here chase their tail and don't own up to how mercurial they are.

How many on this board wanted Petey gone last year?

How many wanted Hughes gone in the shortened season?

I'm not immune to being wrong and I'm happy to talk about those times too. But the knee-jerk responses and then lack of accountability kind of kill the ability to have earnest conversations.

"Want them gone" and "trade for assets that better align with the team's trajectory" are 2 different things.

For the record, based on the team's current trajectory and cap structure and prospect pool, I still believe the best for the team's long term health is to trade both Petey and Hughes right now, IF THE RETURN IS RIGHT. I don't believe in sitting on assets until they depreciate to zero worth is a good strategy, because a vast majority of time depreciating assets do not become appreciating assets as time pass.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

"Want them gone" and "trade for assets that better align with the team's trajectory" are 2 different things.

For the record, based on the team's current trajectory and cap structure and prospect pool, I still believe the best for the team's long term health is to trade both Petey and Hughes right now, IF THE RETURN IS RIGHT. I don't believe in sitting on assets until they depreciate to zero worth is a good strategy, because a vast majority of time depreciating assets do not become appreciating assets as time pass.

The return would not have been right when those EP trade suggestions were aired.

 

[VanJack]

The only way I will have hope with this prospect is if they properly develop him, leave him down in the minors for at least two or three years, and build him up

Exactly. In just about every other NHL market with a decent team and development plan, a first round draft pick might spend a couple of years with your AHL affiliate learning the NA game.

I noted that William Eklund played last night for the San Jose Barracuda in Abbotsford. He was the seventh overall pick for the Sharks in 2021, and is about the same size as Lekkerimaki, 5'11" and 181.

You could see the elite-level skating that attracted the Sharks to him in the first place--and even though he might help the struggling big club right now, they're leaving him in the minors. And he has 21 points in 29 games.

I wouldn't expect Lekkerimaki to be of any help to the Canucks for at least two or even three seasons, assuming that he's developed properly.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

The return would not have been right when those EP trade suggestions were aired.

And that's fine, I don't think anybody was up in arms that we kept EP.

I was merely trying to differentiate between "want them gone" vs trading them to improve the team, as it was alleged that people are "knee-jerk" reacting and than follow up with a lack of accountability. I don't think that is a fair assessment of the overall sentiment. Also it leads to the current evaluation of Lekkerimaki, I don't think the concerns about his D+1 season is "knee-jerk", but I also don't think anybody is writing him off and "want him gone" yet.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Mono, a concussion, and half a season and people are writing him off but, the same people complain about trading Forsling when he passed through waivers and spent his + 5? season in the AHL. Like seriously can we wait at least a full season of him being healthy before the doom and gloom posters start rambling the same garbage?

Also this is exactly why management wants young NHL players as opposed to draft picks because at least with NHL players you are gettinga roster player. While draft picks are at best a lottery ticket where you often end up somewhere in the middle because their proceived potential and where they actually end up.

Just like with Guenther I see people saying he already a better player then Garland where he is just below .5ppg 21 games into the season. His pecieved value by posters is a lot higher then Garlands and there is still a good chance that he tops out at 50-60 points a season just like Garland

Double standards are real on this forum. Almost daily I see people complain about losing Forsling who was traded twice and passed through waivers 1 or 2 times as well before having a resurgence and becoming a top 4 Dman

Just had either mono or long covid and it is terrible. I am willing to give Lettermaki time to see if he recovers. My biggest concern is that he is looking like the soft top 6 or bust type. Also that we had him so high. I think we needed to take a chance on Bischel there. I am usually against drafting by position, but its okay when the players left are similar quality.

Trading Forsling was stupid. End of story. Not so much about Forsling, as I don’t think he would of developed the same here. But because he was traded for Adam f***ing Clendenning. A player that was having a down year in the AHL and was in his last year of waiver exemption. Everybody knew at the time that this wasn’t an NHL player. Forsling was tracking well at the time and was traded for “a more NHL ready prospect”. Beyond stupid.

Are you really going to try to defend the OEL trade? I am not a huge Guenther fan, but he is a young, cost controlled asset playing in the NHL at 19 and somewhat producing. Other teams were paying somewhere around 2nd+ to late first+ for Garland. They weren’t trading 9th overall +2nd and also taking on a 30 yo defencemen that was signed for 6 years.

I agree that people can get overly upset about losing prospects. For example Micheal Carcone and Jonathan Myrenberg. People have every right to be upset though when they are stupid trades for stupid reasons, and the players go on and have success.

 

[Warh1ppy]

Meh. He needs to be heavily developed and we have to hope the trend of canucks picking smaller skilled players doesn't continue.

But whatever, I wanted Bichsel

 

[jiboy]

I remember the blackbook were very high on him and most of the times they are on the target regarding prospects

I would be patient before writing him off

 

[Jay26]

I remember the blackbook were very high on him and most of the times they are on the target regarding prospects

I would be patient before writing him off

Yeah I'm content to be patient. I feel like I don't really watch the stats anymore with prospects. I watch the time. If they haven't developed to a certain point by the time they're in their early twenties, I move on from any expectations.

I'm not skilled or knowledgable enough to make pre-emptive judgements on prospects.

 

[Pip]

Mono, a concussion, and half a season and people are writing him off but, the same people complain about trading Forsling when he passed through waivers and spent his + 5? season in the AHL. Like seriously can we wait at least a full season of him being healthy before the doom and gloom posters start rambling the same garbage?

Also this is exactly why management wants young NHL players as opposed to draft picks because at least with NHL players you are gettinga roster player. While draft picks are at best a lottery ticket where you often end up somewhere in the middle because their proceived potential and where they actually end up.

Just like with Guenther I see people saying he already a better player then Garland where he is just below .5ppg 21 games into the season. His pecieved value by posters is a lot higher then Garlands and there is still a good chance that he tops out at 50-60 points a season just like Garland

Double standards are real on this forum. Almost daily I see people complain about losing Forsling who was traded twice and passed through waivers 1 or 2 times as well before having a resurgence and becoming a top 4 Dman

This Forsling comp isn’t the gotcha you think it is. When the Canucks traded Forsling he was trending really well. Not comparable to discussion regarding potentially looking at moving a prospect that is struggling.

 

[Nucker101]

This Forsling comp isn’t the gotcha you think it is. When the Canucks traded Forsling he was trending really well. Not comparable to discussion regarding potentially looking at moving a prospect that is struggling.

Yeah, that comparison makes no sense at all to me.

 

[MS]

Exactly. In just about every other NHL market with a decent team and development plan, a first round draft pick might spend a couple of years with your AHL affiliate learning the NA game.

First round picks who play 2 full AHL seasons have a bust rate over 90%.

If you are a high draft pick that spends that much time in the AHL, your development has gone seriously off the rails.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Prospects have had bad seasons before and managed to bounce back. He’s still young and there’s still time.

But I don’t think we ought to be chastising fans for being down, worried or what have you over the year he’s had (and it’s hard to put lipstick on this pig, it’s been awful, whatever the mitigating circumstances might be) .

You can still hope for the best for his development while being understandably concerned with where he’s at.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

First round picks who play 2 full AHL seasons have a bust rate over 90%.

If you are a high draft pick that spends that much time in the AHL, your development has gone seriously off the rails.

You might be correct in that figure, but I’d imagine it’s highly circumstantial and mainly based on the organization. I recall around a decade ago that Detroit was always praised for their development of allowing prospects plenty of time to marinate in the AHL.

That said, the Canucks are not known as being very competent in developing prospects over recent years.

 

[MS]

You might be correct in that figure, but I’d imagine it’s highly circumstantial and mainly based on the organization. I recall around a decade ago that Detroit was always praised for their development of allowing prospects plenty of time to marinate in the AHL.

That said, the Canucks are not known as being very competent in developing prospects over recent years.

Yeah, 15-odd years ago the Red Wings had some Hudlers and Kindls who were first-rounders who spent a couple years in the AHL before sticking but this is pretty rare.

Randomly going back 5 years to the Pettersson draft in 2017, the only guy to play more than 50-60ish AHL games and be an actual decent NHL player is probably Liljegren, and that's only because he played two seasons in the AHL as a Euro teenager in a Klimovich situation.

 

[Gstank]

Yeah, 15-odd years ago the Red Wings had some Hudlers and Kindls who were first-rounders who spent a couple years in the AHL before sticking but this is pretty rare.

Randomly going back 5 years to the Pettersson draft in 2017, the only guy to play more than 50-60ish AHL games and be an actual decent NHL player is probably Liljegren, and that's only because he played two seasons in the AHL as a Euro teenager in a Klimovich situation.

The Flat cap has a big in those numbers. Teams need cheap contracts and are rushing prospects to the NHL for cheap labour.

If you are developing NA players properly you should have them play at least part of 1 season in the AHL. But in this time and age no one is patient for anything. 1st round picks should be seen as future investments and there is nothing wrong with leaving players in a weaker league to over develope their games. I dont there as ever been a case of a player regressing because they stayed in the AHL too long.

High skilled players like Lekkerimaki and Klimovich should play in the AHL as its not their skill that its the problem its the other intangibles that come with facing adversity and having to earn everything you get

Hoglander, Podz and Rathbone will become better players for their stints in the AHL