Kings News: Jonathan Bernier to TML for Matt Frattin, Ben Scrivens, & 2nd ('14 or '15) (pst#276)

[stonedhenge]

What it this fascination with Read?
Read is undersized, undrafted and in one year from UFA player with high salary demand.
He was good value for Philadelphia for 900k, but will be bad value after 2013/2014.

If he is going to play with Richards/Carter this line will be physically dominated by opposition.
If he is going to play with Kopitar/Williams, he is going to replace Brown?

We want to trade great goalie like Bernier for Read?

I would rather have a 1st round pick than Read. I don't buy those numbers that Flyers forwards score in their run&gun system. See Leino and how well his big contract does for the Sabres. Read would score 10-15 goals max in Kings system. Yes it's my crystal ball.

 

[AKAY47]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but some names have finally popped out as to who we may be asking back for Bernier:

CBC.CA: Elliotte Friedman reports the Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers and Minnesota Wild remain interested in LA Kings goalie Jonathan Bernier, but a source wonder if the NY Islanders could make a late bid. He believes the Flyers are the favorite for Bernier, but they won’t part with Sean Couturier for Bernier…The Pittsburgh Penguins might trade Kris Letang, and teams are getting prepared for that possibility if the two sides fail to agree to a contract extension…Friedman also said the Edmonton Oilers have allowed Shawn Horcoff to contact other teams.

TORONTO SUN: Steve Simmons also believes the Flyers could win the Bernier sweepstakes. “The Kings have targeted young stars or budding stars in their search: Jake Gardiner from Toronto; Brayden Schenn from Philadelphia; Charlie Coyle from Minnesota”, writes Simmons, who doubts the Leafs part with Gardiner.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/22/philly-most-likely-to-win-bernier-sweepstakes

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynightincanada/hotstove/video/#id=2393170827

 

[MsMeow]

I would rather have a 1st round pick than Read. I don't buy those numbers that Flyers forwards score in their run&gun system. See Leino and how well his big contract does for the Sabres. Read would score 10-15 goals max in Kings system. Yes it's my crystal ball.

To be fair, Buffalo tried to turn Leino into a centre and he's a RW. He also had the perfect storm in 2010 with Briere and Hartnell so he was paid because of that playoff run.

As far as Read goes, someone used the fact that he was undrafted as a negative but he's had 2 very good seasons since coming to the NHL. I'm still not sure that he's a good fit with the 2nd line since he's small and the upcoming status of his contract is another concern.

 

[kings11]

would brayden schenn and a 2nd be a possibility??

 

[MSSLYNX]

Philly fan here.
Did not get to see Bernier play a lot but looking at some numbers:
* Not getting younger: will be 25 this summer
* In the league since 2007 and number of games played keeps getting lower: 25-16-14
* Excellent record last season: was he playing easy games ? Did not check that.

Not sure the return should be higher than a 3rd line player like Read.
DL has got to give Bernier a shot at starting elsewhere. He might play good elsewhere a la Bobrovsky but if there is no room in LA, got to let him go to highest bidder.

As a Philly fan i dont mind seeing Read go since he was an unsigned free agent. I would roll the dice (again) that either Mason or Bernier will fix the goalie situation for a few years.

If Read goes for a big salary next contract well then it means you will have gotten a pretty good return.

 

[BigBrown]

would brayden schenn and a 2nd be a possibility??

I doubt Schenn alone is a possibility, never mind the pick. I have no idea how reliable Steve Simmonds is when it comes to trade rumors, but normally he's just a blow-hard that should be ignored.

 

[MSSLYNX]

would brayden schenn and a 2nd be a possibility??

Curious to see if indeed many Kings fans would welcome Schenn back.
But no i dont think its a possibility. Younger, higher pedigree, Luke.

Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd for Richards was a good return from our end so i guess management wants to see Schenn improving and making the deal even better.

 

[BigBrown]

Philly fan here.
Did not get to see Bernier play a lot but looking at some numbers:
* Not getting younger: will be 25 this summer
* In the league since 2007 and number of games played keeps getting lower: 25-16-14
* Excellent record last season: was he playing easy games ? Did not check that.

Not sure the return should be higher than a 3rd line player like Read.
DL has got to give Bernier a shot at starting elsewhere. He might play good elsewhere a la Bobrovsky but if there is no room in LA, got to let him go to highest bidder.

As a Philly fan i dont mind seeing Read go since he was an unsigned free agent. I would roll the dice (again) that either Mason or Bernier will fix the goalie situation for a few years.

If Read goes for a big salary next contract well then it means you will have gotten a pretty good return.

You only see what you want to see I guess.
* He's not been in the league since 2007, he had a taste back when the Kings starter was Jason Labarbera, the Kings decided that it would be best for his development to go back down and play in the minors. After that he won the AHL goalie of the year and willed a very low scoring AHL team to the conference finals.
* You say he's not getting younger, I say he has his prime in front of him and with age comes maturity.
* It's a lockout shortened season, of course his number of starts is gonna go down. Projected over the course of a full season he'd have had ~24 games. Last season Quick was playing out of his mind, so Sutter decided to ride him which would explain the low number of starts for Bernier. And this season he played 9 of his 14 games against playoff teams.

 

[MSSLYNX]

You are right about this last season. Thought 14 games was the year before. My bad.

Now would you trade a backup cause thats what he will be forever behind Quick for a 3rd liner?

 

[takk]

Now would you trade a backup cause thats what he will be forever behind Quick for a 3rd liner?

Nope. Kings are looking for a 1st this year and a decent winger or D prospect, and it's likely that's the least DL will get from what we heard so far.

 

[JeanBlanc]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but some names have finally popped out as to who we may be asking back for Bernier:

CBC.CA: Elliotte Friedman reports the Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers and Minnesota Wild remain interested in LA Kings goalie Jonathan Bernier, but a source wonder if the NY Islanders could make a late bid. He believes the Flyers are the favorite for Bernier, but they won’t part with Sean Couturier for Bernier…The Pittsburgh Penguins might trade Kris Letang, and teams are getting prepared for that possibility if the two sides fail to agree to a contract extension…Friedman also said the Edmonton Oilers have allowed Shawn Horcoff to contact other teams.

TORONTO SUN: Steve Simmons also believes the Flyers could win the Bernier sweepstakes. “The Kings have targeted young stars or budding stars in their search: Jake Gardiner from Toronto; Brayden Schenn from Philadelphia; Charlie Coyle from Minnesotaâ€, writes Simmons, who doubts the Leafs part with Gardiner.


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/22/philly-most-likely-to-win-bernier-sweepstakes

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynightincanada/hotstove/video/#id=2393170827

Those are interesting names in the lack of focus on LWs. Gardiner, for example is a F->D convert. Either it's more of the aforementioned media jockeying (float a list of good, young players), Lombardi is asking for B+ to A- young NHL players regardless of position, or a combination of both.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Returned to his game log. OK for strength of opposition and also for home/away.

But only once he won while stopping 40+. Got some "soft wins" stopping 18 of 19, 13 of 15 , 12 of 13. Not sure how it would translate in a team giving 35 shots a game?

Got pulled during only back-to-back so thats a negative.
33% of his games were .8 games also a negative.
Really bad numbers shootout last 3 years: 2-8.

I get the AHL greatness and the high draft pick but still not offering better than Read if i'm Holmgren.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Nope. Kings are looking for a 1st this year and a decent winger or D prospect, and it's likely that's the least DL will get from what we heard so far.

The 11th + Read seems unlikely but we'll see.
Returns are historically quite low for backups.

Now if you were certain Bernier was the next big thing, you would trade Quick for a great package and now you have a favorite but that wont happen right because Bernier is still a question mark.

 

[takk]

Bernier is not a question mark. Not to the Kings management anyways and I suspect he's not a question mark to the GM's that are involved in his trading process.

Bernier was expected to take over starter job even before the 11-12 season, but Quick went übermensch and arguably performed at Hart level during regular season and smashed goaltending records as you probably witnessed in postseason.

Bernier even outperformed Quick at times during this year, he'd be the undisputable starter in 2/3 of teams just at beginning of next season.

 

[KopitarFAN]

The 11th + Read seems unlikely but we'll see.
Returns are historically quite low for backups.

Now if you were certain Bernier was the next big thing, you would trade Quick for a great package and now you have a favorite but that wont happen right because Bernier is still a question mark.

I don't think any of us realistically expect that, part of the reason why I don't see Philly as a fit (pick is too high).

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I thought the Toronto Sun is usually very questionable on their rumors. I can't take their rumors too seriously. That said, I am still hoping for Zucker....

 

[The Tikkanen]

If it ends up Schenn for Bernier I'll be doing the no pants dance. Based on the mind tricks Lombardi seems to pull on Philly I think it's entirely possible.

 

[Omni Owl]

I'd rather get Coyle than Zucker, but it seems pretty unlikely. I don't really like any of the Toronto guys except for Gardiner. Philly seems like the best bet with Read, Laughton, Schenn, Couts...

 

[deeshamrock]

If it ends up Schenn for Bernier I'll be doing the no pants dance. Based on the mind tricks Lombardi seems to pull on Philly I think it's entirely possible.[/QUOTE]\

It's not. Simmons is just another reporter, Like Tim Panachio who spun the Voracek idea, who is playing spin doctor. It has very little to do with whatever private conversation DL is having with Homer or any other GM.

As a Flyer fan, as much as I'd love to see Schenn gone, esp for something as good as Bernier, it's not happening. Although his trade value has decreased since last year when Homer tried to get Yandle and WEber and he was the asking price, I can't see that happening. Homer has been critized for trading away too much and disturbing what should be the development of a young core group. I think he wants to hold onto both Cooter and Schenn for a while, unless he gets an offer he can't refuse, which mich be Bobby Ryan., although I doubt it. Those scouts that go to games and report back, there is reason that the GM's asking for a trade with the Flyers all want Couturier, he's the better player.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Not that I believe it for one second, but if we got Schenn back I would laugh my *** off

 

[Telos]

Can't see Schenn being dealt for Bernier, unless both sides are adding. Even then, it seems like an odd fit. Schenn is pretty set at center. If we got him, I would look to deal him elsewhere, but he shouldn't be dealt from Philly in the first place.

 

[CTKingsFan]

The 11th + Read seems unlikely but we'll see.
Returns are historically quite low for backups.

Now if you were certain Bernier was the next big thing, you would trade Quick for a great package and now you have a favorite but that wont happen right because Bernier is still a question mark.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bernier is gonna be one of the top goaltender in the league. He's that good! Who ever gets Bernier is gonna be the eventual winner of the trade. As Bernier is the best player involved. The ONLY reason we're even considering trading Bernier is because Quick the best goalie in the league. And Bernier is too good to be sitting around as a backup. He deserves to play.

 

[kings11]

hypothetically speaking if we did reacquire schenn he would slot perfectly as a 2nd C
Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Richards-Schenn-Carter
Holloway-Stoll-Lewis
Clifford-Andreoff-Nolan/King

 

[jml87]

Returned to his game log. OK for strength of opposition and also for home/away.

But only once he won while stopping 40+. Got some "soft wins" stopping 18 of 19, 13 of 15 , 12 of 13. Not sure how it would translate in a team giving 35 shots a game?

Got pulled during only back-to-back so thats a negative.
33% of his games were .8 games also a negative.
Really bad numbers shootout last 3 years: 2-8.

I get the AHL greatness and the high draft pick but still not offering better than Read if i'm Holmgren.

Dude, enough with the stats. You admitted you've never even watched him before. You can't look at shot totals and tell how good a goalie is. You had a goalie younger than him and you gave him up because you weren't willing to wait. Bernier is at the perfect age, already experienced and ready to become a starter. He's awesome, he's just been blocked by a top 3 goalie in the league. You are undervaluing him big time.

 

[CTKingsFan]

That Toronto Sun article just seems like someone throwing random names out there. Those players don't make any sense! Are needs are clear left winger, back up goaltender, 1st round pick.