John Tortorella Named (Part Time) Head Coach Discussion

[Magua]

if you know want to keep blaming coaches until the end of time then good luck ever winning a cup because players are never going to play hard if you keep getting soft coaches that cater to players you like.
doesnt work that way, it never will.

if you think brind'amour and williams won cups because their coaches were soft then you dont know anything about lavy and sutter which were the complete opposite of them.

If the Flyers won multiple Cups with a soft player's coach, would you stop being a fan?

 

[Beef Invictus]

All he's doing is what is de rigueur in the NFL.
Every NFL team studies film in groups, OL, DL, DBs, etc.
And players squirm as their mistakes are exposed.

There's a number of reasons for the group approach:
1) the player is exposed to the teammates he's letting down
2) the other players are taught what is not acceptable
3) the team develops group expectations and learns to police each other instead of the coaches constantly harping on them - and that's more effective b/c players tune out coaches after a while.

Does it embarrass players? Sure. But they should be, losing impacts all their teammates, they should be accountable to those teammates. The HCs role is to keep the focus on playing right, and shut down finger pointing when it becomes an exercise in shifting blame.

A player who can't handle criticism, who isn't driven to get better, who resents his teammates holding him accountable, should be subtracted.

???? What? Film sessions are usually trash talk and guys having fun with each other. If it's a hostile environment that's a shitty coach.

There's also a massive difference between film sessions, which they're all used up anyways, and publicly ripping particular players. Even when Frost was doing well Tortorella had up throw in threats about how it better keep up.

 

[deadhead]

If the Flyers won multiple Cups with a soft player's coach, would you stop being a fan?

Cooper has said that his coaching philosophy is culture over strategy, and to “have one hell of a goalie.”

“He sets a high standard,” said Norris Trophy and Conn Smythe winner Victor Hedman. “We expect greatness every night. That’s what makes us successful as a group.”

“We went from the outhouse to the penthouse,” Cooper said. “I truly believe that you have to have failure before you have success. You wear the bumps, you wear the bruises, you wear the heartache. You wear it on your sleeve. It keeps you up. It also drives you. We were not going to be denied.

‘One of the best coaches ever’: How the Lightning’s patience with Jon Cooper paid off

It's been eight years since Cooper felt "shock" upon accepting the job as Tampa Bay's coach.

theathletic.com

“He’s just got a great way of communicating things in layman’s terms, not trying to get too caught up in analyzing things,” defenseman Ryan McDonagh said. . . . You can paint a picture black-and-white and be pretty specific and analyze things, but he does a great job of keeping that message positive and keeping the message coming in different directions.

“We know he’s going to set our team up for success when he’s breaking things down X’s and O’s. Ninety percent of the time though, it’s about our attitude and mindset.”

Stamkos said. “He expects everyone in the room to do their job. The accountability is huge from the coaching staff to the players, and from the players to the players.

Jon Cooper teaches. He motivates. He delegates. Mostly, he just wins.

John Romano | The Lightning coach is second on the all-time NHL coaching list for winning percentage and is a win away from a second Stanley Cup.

www.tampabay.com

"Hockey's just different," Cooper will say later tonight over his plastic cup of Cabernet Sauvignon. "You can't structurally draw up a play for a puck that is chipped off the glass. You are dependent on guys following the system. The game happens so fast that you need a structure in place, and players have to buy into the system. Because if guys go rogue, there are so many moving parts that the whole thing breaks down.

https://www.si.com/nhl/2019/02/06/tampa-bay-lightning-jon-cooper-coaching-staff

 

[Magua]

Tortorella is just like Cooper. Nailed it.

 

[deadhead]

The coach demands the same intensity of his players. Even star players like team captain Sidney Crosby and right winger Phil Kessel are required to block shots, win face-offs, battle for the puck, and hurry back to help in the defensive zone—back-checking in hockey parlance.

Such thankless jobs often go unnoticed, but Sullivan knows firsthand that they’re crucial to tipping the balance of a game. And players who aren’t measuring up are called on it. “He’s very honest. He doesn’t yell, he just tells you: I need you to win this battle in the corner or to get a box out on this play,” says Penguins defenseman Ian Cole. “He’ll tell you whether you’re a fourth line winger or an all-star.”

Sullivan landed with Tampa Bay as an assistant to the fiery John Tortorella, one of the assistant coaches he’d worked with in Phoenix. They were a contrast in styles. Tortorella openly sparred with reporters. Sullivan was more deliberate. He likes to control what he can control. The pair remained a team as Tortorella was fired by Tampa Bay, hired by the New York Rangers, fired again, and hired by the Vancouver Canucks.

The mind-set Sullivan brought to the team was familiar. Come to the rink and try to get a little better every day. Do the thankless jobs. Work hard. “That was my message to the team,” he says. And all the chatter and controversy about the team’s stars and the coaching change? “Shut out the noise.”

Penguins coach Mike Sullivan on winning, and losing | Bostonia

Pittsburgh Penguins coach Mike Sullivan knows a lot about winning, and losing

www.bu.edu

From the very beginning, the Penguins have been unified in their praise of Sullivan. The same words always ring true. He’s tough, but fair. Even players who didn’t always see eye to eye with Sullivan, notably Phil Kessel, never uttered a negative word about him on their way out the door.

“He can be tough on us and he holds us accountable,” defenseman Brian Dumoulin said.

How Mike Sullivan and the Penguins became a perfect fit: 'He's the only coach for this team'

Once upon a time, Mike Sullivan had a chance encounter with Sidney Crosby and a few other Penguins' stars. The rest is history.

theathletic.com

 

[Appleyard]

The proof is in the pudding with on ice tactics, success, how many guys hate Torts around the league etc though...

Cooper especially is a very astute tactical coach who is known for being a guy who is very open.

What he is saying there is basically what Guardiola says at Man City... it is my job to create structure, strategy etc... but players dont need to know exactly why, or every single nuance. It is then up to me to get them on the same page and explain things simply so guys dont get confused, and embed what we are doing in the core of everything.

He was certainly a good coach for a long time... but he has been known for "Losing locker-rooms" forever. And with Tampa, NY and even Columbus he had better pieces in place and more star power.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cooper has said that his coaching philosophy is culture over strategy, and to “have one hell of a goalie.”

“He sets a high standard,” said Norris Trophy and Conn Smythe winner Victor Hedman. “We expect greatness every night. That’s what makes us successful as a group.”

“We went from the outhouse to the penthouse,” Cooper said. “I truly believe that you have to have failure before you have success. You wear the bumps, you wear the bruises, you wear the heartache. You wear it on your sleeve. It keeps you up. It also drives you. We were not going to be denied.

‘One of the best coaches ever’: How the Lightning’s patience with Jon Cooper paid off

It's been eight years since Cooper felt "shock" upon accepting the job as Tampa Bay's coach.

theathletic.com

“He’s just got a great way of communicating things in layman’s terms, not trying to get too caught up in analyzing things,” defenseman Ryan McDonagh said. . . . You can paint a picture black-and-white and be pretty specific and analyze things, but he does a great job of keeping that message positive and keeping the message coming in different directions.

“We know he’s going to set our team up for success when he’s breaking things down X’s and O’s. Ninety percent of the time though, it’s about our attitude and mindset.”

Stamkos said. “He expects everyone in the room to do their job. The accountability is huge from the coaching staff to the players, and from the players to the players.

Jon Cooper teaches. He motivates. He delegates. Mostly, he just wins.

John Romano | The Lightning coach is second on the all-time NHL coaching list for winning percentage and is a win away from a second Stanley Cup.

www.tampabay.com

"Hockey's just different," Cooper will say later tonight over his plastic cup of Cabernet Sauvignon. "You can't structurally draw up a play for a puck that is chipped off the glass. You are dependent on guys following the system. The game happens so fast that you need a structure in place, and players have to buy into the system. Because if guys go rogue, there are so many moving parts that the whole thing breaks down.

https://www.si.com/nhl/2019/02/06/tampa-bay-lightning-jon-cooper-coaching-staff

Cooper also coaches top tier strategy. Especially in transition. it gives him the luxury of speaking fluff like this.

 

[Tripod]

Can someone post Norris winners and others raving about Torts X's & O's and great communication.

 

[pit]

I can also bold cliches ad nauseum said by hockey guys to emphasize a point while glossing over quotes that don't fit my narrative.

 

[04hockey]

great post season press conference, as the coach kept saying - "accountability"
Torts is a great hire, how he's getting all this criticism after only one year is bullshit

2 Jack Adams
Stanley Cup
most Flyers played hard every game.....hopefully Briere can get this guy some talent to win

 

[kudymen]

Lickballs.gif

 

[Striiker]

Torts isn’t going to sleep with any of you

Stop trying so hard

 

[Beef Invictus]

great post season press conference, as the coach kept saying - "accountability"
Torts is a great hire, how he's getting all this criticism after only one year is bullshit

2 Jack Adams
Stanley Cup
most Flyers played hard every game.....hopefully Briere can get this guy some talent to win

Byslma has a Jack Adams. How meaningless.

Nothing says "accountability" like selective benchings and then refusing to do your own job.

He won't win. His brand of hockey is loser hockey in this day and age. The league is set up to reward talent and offense, the things he hates. He is another trash hire from a group that has blown every single hire for a decade.

No team finishing as the Flyers did is "hard to play against." If you are easy to beat, like the Flyers, then it's not that hard.

Eh, you'll find out. I've paid attention to Tortorella for years, so I know. You'll see.

 

[Curufinwe]

So Torts talks about being honest yet says he had no idea that the ONLY game he scratched Travis and Frost was in their respective hometowns/ friends and family locations?

What a lying piece of shit. The whole team know this.

They played 162 out of 164 games ,and Torts wants people to believe it's a coincidence that the two games they missed as healthy scratches were in their hometowns.

 

[deadhead]

The proof is in the pudding with on ice tactics, success, how many guys hate Torts around the league etc though...

Cooper especially is a very astute tactical coach who is known for being a guy who is very open.

What he is saying there is basically what Guardiola says at Man City... it is my job to create structure, strategy etc... but players dont need to know exactly why, or every single nuance. It is then up to me to get them on the same page and explain things simply so guys dont get confused, and embed what we are doing in the core of everything.

He was certainly a good coach for a long time... but he has been known for "Losing locker-rooms" forever. And with Tampa, NY and even Columbus he had better pieces in place and more star power.

Torts never had a team with the talent that Cooper and Sullivan had.

CBJ: Saad, Werenski (#8), traded Johanson for Jones (#4), Bob in goal (notorious PO choker). The GM traded Saad for Panarin (who made it clear he was going to walk in 2 seasons). The other top pick he inherited was Murray (#2) who he couldn't salvage (broke down at 26).
Rest of team, Atkinson (#157), Wennberg (#14), Foligno, Dubinsky, Jenner (#37), Anderson (#95), Karlsson (#53), Savard (#94), Jack Johnson D.

NYR: Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Fedotenko, Girardi, Boyle, McDonagh, MDZ, Staal, Lundqvist

TB: St Louis (UDFA), Stillman, Richards, Vinnie (#1), Modin, Andreychuk (40), Fedotenko, Taylor, Afanasenkov, Boyle, Kubina, Cullimore, Lukowich, Sarich, Khabibulin

Pit: Crosby (#1), Kessel, Malkin (#2), Hornqvist, Bonino, Hagelin, Kunitz, Sheary, Cullen, Letang, Daley, Dumoulin, Lovejoy, Maattam, Murray/Fleury

TB: Point, Kucherov, Stamkos, Guorde, Killorn, Goodrow, Cirelli, Palat, Coleman, Colton, Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Rutta, Savard

 

[Curufinwe]

Six paragraphs on why Torts is really as good as coaches with multiple Cups in the salary cap era. I guess you have a lot more time to spend riding Tortorella's wizened old banana now that you don't have to spend all day dreaming up excuses for Fletcher's failures.

 

[Rich Nixon]

the best part of that Torts presser is the very end where he, unprompted, decides to point out that the Flyers have a total quack medical staff and still haven't completely fixed that yet.

 

[kudymen]

It's weird how John Tortorella can turn a player into a Martin St. Louis but unfortunately never had a team full of Martins St. Louises.

 

[deadhead]

The key comment, which I think stems from the Panarin trade (and then the Duchene TDL moves), was that he doesn't want them to try and compete by making big moves.

Like Briere, Tortorella stressed building it correctly, without skipping steps.

"The biggest point out of this is when you commit to a process of what we have to do to try to get this right, you can't go looking when there's that guy out there that is a fairly big name and you change course, 'Let's go get him,'" the head coach said. "We can't change course. We've got to stay the course and let our kids develop.


When CBJ got Panarin they were on a 2 year deadline (Panarin wasn't staying, Bob was up for an extension), and the team was never as good as in the 2nd season before the trade - chemistry matters. They were building a deep young team, then the GM tried to accelerate the timeline.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

TB: St Louis (UDFA)

Choked on my coffee. He was a UDFA. How good could he have actually been?

 

[dragonoffrost]

Yes. I'm biased against overpaid players who don't perform.

Cough Cough Risto....

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'm not doing the whole thing, but I do find it funny how in general current stars get underrated in a historical sense while good secondary players who have been retired for a while get hand-waved as absolutely nothing. Fredrik Modin and Ruslan Fedotenko were damn fine players in their own right. Dan Boyle was fantastic. Pavel Kubina was a good Defenseman at one point. We just remember the end of the line here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts never had a team with the talent that Cooper and Sullivan had.

CBJ: Saad, Werenski (#8), traded Johanson for Jones (#4), Bob in goal (notorious PO choker). The GM traded Saad for Panarin (who made it clear he was going to walk in 2 seasons). The other top pick he inherited was Murray (#2) who he couldn't salvage (broke down at 26).
Rest of team, Atkinson (#157), Wennberg (#14), Foligno, Dubinsky, Jenner (#37), Anderson (#95), Karlsson (#53), Savard (#94), Jack Johnson D.

NYR: Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Fedotenko, Girardi, Boyle, McDonagh, MDZ, Staal, Lundqvist

TB: St Louis (UDFA), Stillman, Richards, Vinnie (#1), Modin, Andreychuk (40), Fedotenko, Taylor, Afanasenkov, Boyle, Kubina, Cullimore, Lukowich, Sarich, Khabibulin

Pit: Crosby (#1), Kessel, Malkin (#2), Hornqvist, Bonino, Hagelin, Kunitz, Sheary, Cullen, Letang, Daley, Dumoulin, Lovejoy, Maattam, Murray/Fleury

TB: Point, Kucherov, Stamkos, Guorde, Killorn, Goodrow, Cirelli, Palat, Coleman, Colton, Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Rutta, Savard

His roster in NY was good enough to hit the Finals with a coach who would let them try offense. Not even a good coach, either. Just a coach who wasn't holding them back.

Kinda scuttles your attempt to claim he didn't have enough talent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The key comment, which I think stems from the Panarin trade (and then the Duchene TDL moves), was that he doesn't want them to try and compete by making big moves.

Like Briere, Tortorella stressed building it correctly, without skipping steps.

"The biggest point out of this is when you commit to a process of what we have to do to try to get this right, you can't go looking when there's that guy out there that is a fairly big name and you change course, 'Let's go get him,'" the head coach said. "We can't change course. We've got to stay the course and let our kids develop.


When CBJ got Panarin they were on a 2 year deadline (Panarin wasn't staying, Bob was up for an extension), and the team was never as good as in the 2nd season before the trade - chemistry matters. They were building a deep young team, then the GM tried to accelerate the timeline.

Tortorella didn't like having Panarin because he hates skilled offensive producers. He wants grinders. He publicly said that.

He was at odds with Kenejeoaldjkdoeken in CBJ because that guy kept foolishly trying to improve the skill level on his team instead of adding grinders ad nauseam like Tortorella wants.

I really look forward to when you slowly start throwing Tortorella under the bus once he fails out and is gone. Like we are seeing hints of with Fletcher. Like you've accidentally and unknowingly done with Hakstol repeatedly, hell you've even done it in this post by pumping how coaching matters deeply. Guess coaches aren't fungible like you claimed?

 

[Curufinwe]

the best part of that Torts presser is the very end where he, unprompted, decides to point out that the Flyers have a total quack medical staff and still haven't completely fixed that yet.

He's setting the stage for blaming next season's performance on injuries despite the fact other teams like Colorado are still successful even with a huge injury toll.