John Tavares Discussion

[ToneDog]

Faceoffs are the one thing he still does well so hopefully he at least does that before shifting over during play.
Wait, are we paying $11M for....Yannick Perreault??????!!!

View attachment 541545

We gave up a 2nd that turned into Josi to acquire Perrault for a playoff run. I'll take Tavares for free and Josi.

 

[The Management]

Worst thing about this thread is that it has awaken a certain winter slumberer over in the Isles forum. He just loves this.

Oh boy, I thought that guy went into hibernation.

I’ve been a part of this board for 7 years. I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that there is always a part of the fan base that needs to dump on one or more of our players. Not just criticize, but insult/berate/lambast/denigrate, pick your descriptor, for what I can only surmise is immature pleasure. To call a player: weak, useless, a boat anchor, and much worse...it’s sad.

My first experience with this was when everyone turned on Brian McCabe.

Tavares isn't worth the cap hit, no. But he's a capable 2C, and I don't see another one of those on the roster.

I also wouldn't describe him as "soft." He's one of the few guys who goes to the front of the net.

 

[Funk21]

All I will say is our stars have to be our stars. If that happens we can certainly best TB. We need more from JT and Nylander.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Let's lock this thread.
There are two JT threads.

The whiners have had their belly aching.

This thread has obviously attracted non-Leaf fans as well.

LOCK PLEASE.

 

[Clyde Brewer]

Tavares 11million Ufa signing
OR
Danault 5.5 and Markstrom 6 million Ufa signings, total for 11.5, which do you prefer?

Not to mention you then didn't need to sign Mrazek, another 3 million dollar upgrade somewhere else for example a 2LW , Tavares signing was a mistake as there was no need for him. At the time we had Matthews and Kadri, rather they stayed with that.

Tavares' 11 million is only part of it.
Once we signed him, we got too good too quickly. We were supposed to have a few years of pain, remember that?

We signed JT, and suddenly Marner had a 47 goal centre instead of a 32. That let Marner pad his stats and inflate his value.

Matthews was able to avoid matching up against to lines and became the 2C or 1B centre. This gave him easier matchups and allowed for more production.

If these things hadn't happened, there's no way Marner would be making 11 million today and we may have been able to get Matthews and Nylander a little cheaper too.

There would have been a few million saved among the contacts of those the players.


Although he hasn't been terrible for us, we do need a little more out of him. Our current reality is that we've got 91 on our team, he isn't going anywhere and we can't change his salary now.

 

[WillyC]

I’ve been a part of this board for 7 years. I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that there is always a part of the fan base that needs to dump on one or more of our players. Not just criticize, but insult/berate/lambast/denigrate, pick your descriptor, for what I can only surmise is immature pleasure. To call a player: weak, useless, a boat anchor, and much worse...it’s sad.

Definitely this.

 

[Craigo85]

I think people are losing sight of the fact that Tavares wanted to be in Toronto. He was going to UFA with one place in mind and that was Toronto. Could you imagine the media shit storm if Toronto said no?

“Tavares wanted to come home and the leafs said no” this board would have lost its shit. The media would have spent the entire year on it. We spent ten years crying about not being able to get marquee free agents. We finally get one who wants to be here and people bitch and cry about it. I’ll say it 100 times. Tavares was never the issue with our cap. He was a UFA and earned his right to $11 million. The cap issue will always come down to Dubas over paying the RFA’s before they won anything. We can’t take it back but I think if we never find success that will haunt Dubas because he had all the leverage.

I agree. I was a fan of the signing at the time, and now regret we can't do anything about it...... BUT, the real problem was that Mitch Marner should not have been allowed to play with Tavares without a new contract. Mitch should have been signed to an extension before the season started ... thats the biggest problem IMO.

We've heard rumours that 8x8 was on the table and if it was anything close to that Dubas was a dumbass (i'm also a fan of Dubas' overall work but the 2 earlier mistakes on Matthews/Mitch are painful learning lessons).

One more thing: Tavares is probably the only one of 2 contracts (Mrazek is the other big one) on the entire team that is underperforming this year. Not sure what his production should be worth: maybe Tavares is playing like a 7-8M player.

I bet many teams out there aren't getting full value out of each contract.

 

[ZEBROA]

You cant put a player on the third line demanding first line results. Bring Nyla der up a step.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I think people are losing sight of the fact that Tavares wanted to be in Toronto. He was going to UFA with one place in mind and that was Toronto. Could you imagine the media shit storm if Toronto said no?

“Tavares wanted to come home and the leafs said no” this board would have lost its shit. The media would have spent the entire year on it. We spent ten years crying about not being able to get marquee free agents. We finally get one who wants to be here and people bitch and cry about it. I’ll say it 100 times. Tavares was never the issue with our cap. He was a UFA and earned his right to $11 million. The cap issue will always come down to Dubas over paying the RFA’s before they won anything. We can’t take it back but I think if we never find success that will haunt Dubas because he had all the leverage.

Pure bs.

The leafs just came off their franchise record in points and were full of elite young stars.

If it came out Tavares waned to come to T.O., Dubas would have just said "Price was too high and we have many high profile rfa's coming up." Everyone would have understood.

Also remember, Dubas had few (if any) critics prior to the unprecedented dramatic overpayments. It was the honeymoon phase. He wouldn't have taken any heat for not signing Tavares.

 

[francis246]

I agree. I was a fan of the signing at the time, and now regret we can't do anything about it...... BUT, the real problem was that Mitch Marner should not have been allowed to play with Tavares without a new contract. Mitch should have been signed to an extension before the season started ... thats the biggest problem IMO.

We've heard rumours that 8x8 was on the table and if it was anything close to that Dubas was a dumbass (i'm also a fan of Dubas' overall work but the 2 earlier mistakes on Matthews/Mitch are painful learning lessons).

One more thing: Tavares is probably the only one of 2 contracts (Mrazek is the other big one) on the entire team that is underperforming this year. Not sure what his production should be worth: maybe Tavares is playing like a 7-8M player.

I bet many teams out there aren't getting full value out of each contract.

I think some may say Tavares is underperforming based on his cap hit, which is fair. But to be honest if you look at his stats over his career this isn’t even Tavares’ worst statistical seasons. It’s one of his better ones. This is right about where you’d expect him to be at this point in his career. 75-80 point player. We had to over pay because he was probably the best UFA on the market in recent years but to be honest I rather have a slow 80 point Tavares at 11 million compared to very over paid 30-45 point Danault or whoever the hell people delusionally think would have been a better signing

Pure bs.

The leafs just came off their franchise record in points and were full of elite young stars.

If it came out Tavares waned to come to T.O., Dubas would have just said "Price was too high and we have many high profile rfa's coming up." Everyone would have understood.

Also remember, Dubas had few (if any) critics prior to the unprecedented dramatic overpayments. It was the honeymoon phase. He wouldn't have taken any heat for not signing Tavares.

Tavares took less to come to Toronto.. and yeah right, no they wouldn’t. It’s like some of you don’t even live in Toronto or listen to sports radio or haven’t been on these boards for long.

Dubas would have been KILLED by this media and many on this board if it came out that Tavares wanted to be here and they passed up on that opportunity.

The only reason why it wasn’t a bigger deal when Pietrangelo signed in Vegas despite wanting to be a Maple Leaf is because the leafs got a better value contract in Brodie.

For years the media had blasted the team for the inability to sign high end free agents.

People to this day bitch about the fact that we could had Corey Perry two summers ago but we said no to him. And he is a 4th liner.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Tavares' 11 million is only part of it.
Once we signed him, we got too good too quickly. We were supposed to have a few years of pain, remember that?

We signed JT, and suddenly Marner had a 47 goal centre instead of a 32. That let Marner pad his stats and inflate his value.

Matthews was able to avoid matching up against to lines and became the 2C or 1B centre. This gave him easier matchups and allowed for more production.

If these things hadn't happened, there's no way Marner would be making 11 million today and we may have been able to get Matthews and Nylander a little cheaper too.

There would have been a few million saved among the contacts of those the players.


Although he hasn't been terrible for us, we do need a little more out of him. Our current reality is that we've got 91 on our team, he isn't going anywhere and we can't change his salary now.

The "we got too good too quickly" deal from a team aspect doesn't fly. When Tavares was signed, the 18-19 Leafs went from 105 to 100 points . The big jump happened in 16-17 when Matthews and Marner were rookies.

 

[francis246]

We need to break line 1

Go Bunting - Tavares - Nylander to get them all going

Matthews+ marner are got and can still produce/create without Bunting. Move kase there or Mikheyev and let those two do there thing

I agree put Kerfoot back up on that first line. Give Bunting - Tavares - Nylander another go. They looked really good in the preseason.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Also remember, Dubas had few (if any) critics prior to the unprecedented dramatic overpayments. It was the honeymoon phase. He wouldn't have taken any heat for not signing Tavares.

Not buying that at all. Considering the Leafs were one of the final teams in the running and most here were very pleased when he did sign, losing out on Tavares would have been seen as a failure by a big chunk of the fan base

 

[ACC1224]

Not buying that at all. Considering the Leafs were one of the final teams in the running and most here were very pleased when he did sign, losing out on Tavares would have been seen as a failure by a big chunk of the fan base

100%. It would have been validation for many that he wasn’t ready for the job.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Pure bs.

The leafs just came off their franchise record in points and were full of elite young stars.

If it came out Tavares waned to come to T.O., Dubas would have just said "Price was too high and we have many high profile rfa's coming up." Everyone would have understood.

Also remember, Dubas had few (if any) critics prior to the unprecedented dramatic overpayments. It was the honeymoon phase. He wouldn't have taken any heat for not signing Tavares.

This is wrong.

Not buying that at all. Considering the Leafs were one of the final teams in the running and most here were very pleased when he did sign, losing out on Tavares would have been seen as a failure by a big chunk of the fan base

This is correct.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Holy crap, I'm finally correct!

 

[Morbo]

Imagine substituting Tavares for a top-tier goalie or defenseman in the league. The Leafs would be way better positioned to win the Stanley Cup.

Who? when and how did we get them?

And who is playing centre now?

easy to say, sure.

 

[shaner82]

Did not know that. Impressive! Is Sundin somewhat underrated? Maby not , just a feeling.

Sundin is one of the most underrated captains in league history. The guy was as solid as they come. Played very physical and was clutch. He carried this team for a lot of years and really doesn't get much recognition.

 

[Jmo89]

Top tier reverse jynx. JT with the gwg tonight.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I think some may say Tavares is underperforming based on his cap hit, which is fair. But to be honest if you look at his stats over his career this isn’t even Tavares’ worst statistical seasons. It’s one of his better ones. This is right about where you’d expect him to be at this point in his career. 75-80 point player. We had to over pay because he was probably the best UFA on the market in recent years but to be honest I rather have a slow 80 point Tavares at 11 million compared to very over paid 30-45 point Danault or whoever the hell people delusionally think would have been a better signing



Tavares took less to come to Toronto.. and yeah right, no they wouldn’t. It’s like some of you don’t even live in Toronto or listen to sports radio or haven’t been on these boards for long.

Dubas would have been KILLED by this media and many on this board if it came out that Tavares wanted to be here and they passed up on that opportunity.

The only reason why it wasn’t a bigger deal when Pietrangelo signed in Vegas despite wanting to be a Maple Leaf is because the leafs got a better value contract in Brodie.

For years the media had blasted the team for the inability to sign high end free agents.

People to this day bitch about the fact that we could had Corey Perry two summers ago but we said no to him. And he is a 4th liner.

There were already conversations about cap management regarding the young 3's upcoming contracts. Dubas would have taken literally zero heat for not signing him. By now, he'd be praised as a genius and on top of that we wouldn't be in cap hell.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

1. Kadri was not a cap casualty. He would fit on our current roster and could have fit back then too. They traded him because they couldn’t trust him to not do something stupid in the playoffs and additionally they wanted to capitalize on his value. They felt they can get a more traditional 3rd line C and upgrade their defense. We took on more cap trading for Kadri.

2. There has been character flaw questions with Kadri. It’s pretty well known he and Lupul were a big part of the locker room coke scandal

First I'm ever hearing of a coke scandal.

 

[mikeyz]

The defeatist attitude around here when the Leafs lose is like nothing else.

I agree that it’s a bit over the top at times. But, to be fair and just to play devils advocate for a second, have they given us ANY reason to be optimistic in the last 2 decades? Lol.

 

[cesareborgia]

Can we give him more than 2 games?

It's the playoffs. So no, cannot give him much more than 2.

 

[keonsbitterness]

There were already conversations about cap management regarding the young 3's upcoming contracts. Dubas would have taken literally zero heat for not signing him. By now, he'd be praised as a genius and on top of that we wouldn't be in cap hell.

Still wrong.

 

[Leafblooded]

Even Sportsnet picking this story up... I'm not the first guy to point out JT's wastefulness..guy better have the game of his life tonight.