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John Tavares Discussion

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ErnieLeafs said:
There an ass-load of ridiculous takes in this thread, about a guy who’s put up 75 in 78.
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John Tavares: Tied for 5th in AAV, tied for 37th in overall scoring. Slow as molasses, brings zero physicality or leadership, but wins faceoffs!

We have a cheaper, better player that brings more on our own team: William Nylander.
 
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Can someone refresh my memory ?

Did Matthews get upset and scurry off to Arizona …. And Babcock go see him …. Was that after we signed JT ?
 
TheShape said:
This really isn't impressive for a guy with a cap hit of 11m, does not help your argument.
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Even the Tavares apologists will admit that he is slow and overpaid. The point is, he is still close to a PPG player. His game will translate to the playoffs so I am optimistic he will be useful.
 
I like JT but good example the big free agent signings that eat cap need to retire now. If you win cup then yes reward your superstar with a big contract to try again (Doughty) otherwise keep building with your young stars and leave cap room open to roll with the punches.

Imagine a world we didn't trade Kadri and didn't fall victim to status quo with evander kane and then still have cap room to spare. You're looking back to back cups if everyone stay healthy and probably Nylander joins the other 2 with 100 points.

To take heat off JT, Pietrangelo is another good example. His big cap hit would be mistake now that he's out prime
 
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Hoglund4MvP said:
I like JT but good example the big free agent signings that eat cap need to retire now. If you win cup then yes reward your superstar with a big contract to try again (Doughty) otherwise keep building with your young stars and leave cap room open to roll with the punches.

Imagine a world we didn't trade Kadri and didn't fall victim to status quo with evander kane and then still have cap room to spare. You're looking back to back cups if everyone stay healthy and probably Nylander joins the other 2 with 100 points.

To take heat off JT, Pietrangelo is another good example. His big cap hit would be mistake now that he's out prime
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I mean I would personally take Kadri and Kane combo over JT for the upcoming playoffs if I was forced to choose, but let's at least wait and see what JT does this playoffs before we talk about imagining other worlds. Getting the second choice of John Tavares is still a win. You're choosing between two wins. Guy is a beast and we know he will bring it every game for us.

Columbus had no answer for JT. JT was his own enemy not finishing plays. He could have had 10 goals that series. I'm not worried about JT in the playoffs. It will come down to execution. The puck needs to go in this time.
 
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DraftSchmaft said:
I mean I would personally take Kadri and Kane combo over JT for the upcoming playoffs if I was forced to choose, but let's at least wait and see what JT does this playoffs before we talk about imagining other worlds. Getting the second choice of John Tavares is still a win. You're choosing between two wins. Guy is a beast and we know he will bring it every game for us.

Columbus had no answer for JT. JT was his own enemy not finishing plays. He could have had 10 goals that series. I'm not worried about JT in the playoffs. It will come down to execution. The puck needs to go in this time.
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Very true response you are right I watch jackets series beginning to end and JT was better than all columbus players just could not score.

imagining world is more about having lots of options if you dont fall for the big free agent. There's lots of possibility when you have 11 mil cap room I don't mean to get stuck on just one. More the point of the matter. Not meant to sulk about our current situation. More theory.

JT is one of those possibilities, used the 11 mil on him. The problem is you can't "roll with the punches". In a cap league as shit as the NHL's rules you unfortunate need to have roll with the punches wiggle room to adjust to needs. With our young superstars becoming men, Tavares is no longer a need so his cap room would be better used elsewhere however you're stuck with it. Even if team called us and said they want JT, JT will not waive. See what I'm trying to say? I like JT, this is more theory moving forward. Don't tie up so much cap room in old players unless it's a Doughty situation we won multi cups already, or generational player like mcdavid hit ufa and want to come home. Anything less and say thanks but no thanks.
 
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HamiltonNHL said:
Anyone know when Babcock / Marner “issue” thing happened ?
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It was the spring before we got Tavares,

It was May 2018 right after they lost to Boston in game 7 and Babcock played Marleau more minutes than Matthews in dying moments. I think Matthews had 16 or 17 minutes in that game.
 
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HamiltonNHL said:
Anyone know when Babcock / Marner “issue” thing happened ?
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From TheScore:

1650821826537.png
 
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ToneDog said:
Tavares haters gonna lose their minds when Gary Bettman hands Tavares the Cup.
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Honestly, I'm not the most thrilled about JT's game to Cap hit ratio. However, I'd hope that every Leafs fan would be ecstatic to see JT get handed a cup (as it has many implications about this team).

Unfortunate because we've seen it with so many players. Clarkson, Nylander, Marner, etc. At some point fans got on these players because while they are good players to have on the team, they were thought of as overpaid for what they bring to the table. Given JT is getting older I don't think he can shake that feeling barring some big plays that indeed does lead to a cup.
 
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Tavares is not a good fit for the kind of team the GM wants. I like Tavares in the right environment. He needs to be on a grinding type of team not the fast high-powered offense that the Leafs seem to want. I like his toughness, his grit and even his work ethic. One of the few Leafs that will absorb the hit and keep trying. I place no blame on him for anything that has happened with him here.As a a dedicated horse player, we have a saying, horses for courses. JT is plying his trade on the wrong course..
 
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All Mod Cons said:
He's not even a PPG in a league where it seems really hard to not be a PPG (this season).
All the while carrying the 5th highest cap hit in the entire league.
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You mean the 40 players who have played 70 games that are PPG? That is just over 1 per team.
 
killer1980 said:
Tavares is not a good fit for the kind of team the coach wants. I like Tavares in the right environment. He needs to be on a grinding type of team not the fast high-powered offense that the Leafs seem to want. I like his toughness, his grit and even his work ethic. One of the few Leafs that will absorb the hit and keep trying. I place no blame on him for anything that has happened with him here.As a a dedicated horse player, we have a saying, horses for courses. JT is plying his trade on the wrong course..
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Fixed but I agree with the rest. For the guys who are thriving the difference in production between this year and last for most isn't primarily because they suddenly got better or tried harder, its use and opportunity, SK played Mitch and AM to death because he had faith in them and you can see by the minutes they get which other guys he feels he can rely on. I don't think JT will ever have much more than the current level of success under Keefe. Its too bad because I don't think either are going anywhere.
 
Seras said:
Talent in the NHL is finite, you either pay for it or you don't get it.
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I don't think Tavares is the right kind of talent that fit Toronto's build, either at the time or now, many years on. I would suggest we signed him because he was the best name on paper, and that's fine, but the fit has always been off because they never tailored Tavares' line to his strengths once they took Marner away.

As far as style goes, Keefe and Dubas' current team seems to be able ragging the puck up the ice more than stretch passes. You can easily envision guys like Kerfoot, Kase, Engvall, Kampf, Nylander all holding the puck and going for a skate. With Tavares, you almost need to minimize the straight ahead speed the game is played at, lots of east west, off speed area plays, shrink the ice, get in tight. Not a lot of guys play that way.
 
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killer1980 said:
Tavares is not a good fit for the kind of team the GM wants. I like Tavares in the right environment. He needs to be on a grinding type of team not the fast high-powered offense that the Leafs seem to want. I like his toughness, his grit and even his work ethic. One of the few Leafs that will absorb the hit and keep trying. I place no blame on him for anything that has happened with him here.As a a dedicated horse player, we have a saying, horses for courses. JT is plying his trade on the wrong course..
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JT's style of play would be very comfortable on a team like the St. Louis Blues which has a blend of guys who don't necessarily play with straight ahead speed, but can mix it up, play heavy, make little area plays, shrink the ice in the offensive zone and mitigate open ice play.
 
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