Player Discussion John Merrill: a.k.a. Joe Dirt, a.k.a. Letterkenny Extra Edition

[HTTP 400]

It's another trade that Bergevin kinda won. He's won pretty much every trade he made during his 9 years with the Habs. Can't blame him for that.

But in the end, there's no results. We're still a bubble team. He should be named "trade manager" and Molson should name a real general manager.

 

[Runner77]

I don't think anyone expected MB to replace Markov with an equivalent. Markov isn't easy to replace and it would take time to do that.

But you have to do a hell of a lot better than Karl f***ing Alzner.

Markov was going to turn 34 in the same year when Bergevin began his tenure in 2012. The issue of a successor should have been tackled from Day 1. Here we are, in the 8th year of Bergevin's tenure and Markov has still not been replaced.

If a first pairing D is not easy to replace, should more resources not have been allocated to achieve this? It points to a major systemic fail that we've also seen in other aspects of this team's decision-making and strategic planning.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

All of this is irrelevant.

You mentioned Staal as being a hall of famer as if that was justification enough to get him while saying Markov was old. Bergevin did not get a hall of famer in his prime years that could help this team. He brought in a guy that is a 4th liner at best currently, and has not been an upgrade over Evans so far.

Bergevin's failure to replace Markov is not justified or excused by his predecessors failure to replace those players. His job was to make sure that there is a replacement for Markov and failed, just like the others failed to replace those players. All that says is we've had mediocre GMs and bad asset management, drafting and development since 1993, including Bergevin, which we all know.

All the young players you listed are prospects and have yet to prove they can translate their game in the NHL, until that happens, they don't count as a replacement for anyone.

To expect a GM replace Markov is irrelevant.
Gainey never replaced Koivu. Oilers never replaced Gretzky, Islanders never replaced Bossy, Devils never replaced Neidermeyer and Wings never replaced Lidstrom.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

It's another trade that Bergevin kinda won. He's won pretty much every trade he made during his 9 years with the Habs. Can't blame him for that.

But in the end, there's no results. We're still a bubble team. He should be named "trade manager" and Molson should name a real general manager.

He won many trades but lost some.

 

[Johnny31]

Good trade in terms of value. But why? He is like poor man edmunston / chariot.

Whatever....who need a puck moving defenseman when you have Jo Drouin carrying the offense

 

[417]

All contenders try to add in that depth and sand paper. It makes sense for Toronto. It wouldn't make much sense for us.

Agreed...it's a good move for them.

But if I was a Leafs fan, I'd have been happier getting Savard or another Dman but whatever.

 

[robert ethan]

If we trade Tatar for a 1st rounder and trade that 1rst rounder in 14 yrs and on and on, the Craig Rivest legacy might go on for 100 years. Bergy have the chance to create some unique Guiness record never beaten.

One day, all 22 players on the roster will be traced back to the Craig Rivet deal.

 

[417]

It's another trade that Bergevin kinda won. He's won pretty much every trade he made during his 9 years with the Habs. Can't blame him for that.

But in the end, there's no results. We're still a bubble team. He should be named "trade manager" and Molson should name a real general manager.

He basically acquired a bigger, more rangy version of Mete with Merrill.

In a vacuum it's an upgrade..but there's virtually no impact on the team as a whole imo. Just gives the coach more options I suppose.

 

[habergeon]

I like Merrill, he’s better than Kukak / Mete and is actually the perfect stabilizing partner for Romanov. Dom will love him, and he’ll see PK time.

we still need a top 4 D, hopefully someone like Ekholm.

 

[No More Subban]

Still hoping for Ekholm. Cmon MB.

 

[robert ethan]

T Bay traded 1st and 3rd round picks for David Savard who is older than Merrill, played about the same minutes, had 1 more point in 4 more games on a higher scoring team, and a horrific-13 compared to Jon's +2 on the season. By all indications Habs got the better player for a fraction of the cost.

 

[OnceWasNot]

Hiring Alzner was an huge mistake, such a mistake very few would predict h would end up that bad.

Almost everyone around here at the time of the signing thought it would be bad. To anyone who had watched Alzer play recently, he was clearly finished as an NHL defenseman and being used by Washington as a 7th D going into and during the playoffs that year. Apparently Bergevin and company weren't paying attention.

 

[Edgy]

To expect a GM replace Markov is irrelevant.
Gainey never replaced Koivu. Oilers never replaced Gretzky, Islanders never replaced Bossy, Devils never replaced Neidermeyer and Wings never replaced Lidstrom.

No, it is not irrelevant. That is literally his job.

 

[Bouboumaster]

So this was the missing piece?
Can we plan de parade now?

 

[Doc McKenna]

Markov was going to turn 34 in the same year when Bergevin began his tenure in 2012. The issue of a successor should have been tackled from Day 1. Here we are, in the 8th year of Bergevin's tenure and Markov has still not been replaced.

If a first pairing D is not easy to replace, should more resources not have been allocated to achieve this? It points to a major systemic fail that we've also seen in other aspects of this team's decision-making and strategic planning.

We went from a major hole at C to a major hole at C and LD and falling apart everywhere else. Lots of fingers pluggin holes. All the while never moving picks for players, or players for picks, and being 8+ million below cap for 3 or 4 years. Each year top talent getting older(price/weber) but no kids developing into a trade able asset or replacement for older players. So even if we win all our trades it doesn't correct for no youth and our top players continuing to age.

A recipe for failure. All the ingredients just sitting there, never mixed or added in the correct order. Just dumped into a pan and cooked. Look we have the best ingredients and threw out the old ones!...do you know how to bake a cake though? A chef can make a great meal out of just scraps lying around, while we have a guy that couldn't even locate a stocked pantry. But he has a nice hat and a spoon.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

No, it is not irrelevant. That is literally his job.

The job is not to replace Markov but to have a good moving puck D with some offense. Romanov might do that job some day. The job is not to reproduce the team we had between 2003 to 2018. We didn't win any Cup those years and we were out of PO pretty soon. Markov wasn't the best warrior in PO by the way. Even if MB replace Markov, Koivu, Higgins, Hamrlik, Ryder, Theodore and Zednik, we will not be a winning team.

The job is to win the Cup and it might be in building a team differently than before. Even in the best of 2003-2018, Habs never had wingers like Anderson and Toffoli and they never had young centers promising such as JK and Suzuki and a future snyper such as Caufield. Yes he will need a good moving puck D. There are some interresting D in the future and MB proved he can do trades. MB or another GM, getting a offensive D is possible.

 

[Doc McKenna]

nice attempt at a clever pun but very empty argument on the actual subject.

Merill is miles better than Mete/Kulak/Ouelette/Leskinen. Stating otherwise is basically admitting you've never watched him play and just read a chart.

You just have a propensity to crap on anything and everything that isnt bringing in a top level talent.

As i said earlier. We DO need a top puck moving defensman and we DO need a top level forward to replace Drouin. That being said-it doesnt mean improving your other positions is bad.

It's a flawed perception in Habsland. It's always " we should have got an orange but we got an apple". Truth is, we need both the orange and the apple and at this moment- the apple was available for the right price.

Name me the last top d or top 6 forward that has been traded...and then tell me how many of those- 99% of people would have paid the price to get it done.

I'd be more focused on the whole puzzle as a Habs fan instead of worrying about MBs shit consistency if i were you.

Other than your personal insults you like to fling, you don't get it. We don't need him if we get a proper LD and move everyone down one chair. Then these guys are playing where they belong. It actually simplifies things without expending another wasted roster spot on yet another wasteful plug. If he is better than kulak who freaking cares. Get a #3-4 LD to play with weber edmonson goes back to petry and chairot goes to 3rd pairing where he belongs. How many times do we need to keep doing the same garbage. Weaver and gilbert improved this D group how much?

Move a damn 1st draft pick and get a guy we need. It won't do us any good in 3-5 years when weber and price are retired. Or admit you built a crap team, sell anything not nailed down and rebuild properly. I don't believe in "anything can happen if we just make the playoffs" you seem to. What is the point of signing a UFA when we are NOT making it out of this division. We may not even make the playoffs.

THIS is Burningbin covering his ass and hoping for a miracle.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Everything point out to Markov willing to accept two years. People should stop to spread FUD there's no proof he wanted more than two and two would have been fine.

He said he would have done one year but MB didn't return his call about it.

 

[26Mats]

Other than your personal insults you like to fling, you don't get it. We don't need him if we get a proper LD and move everyone down one chair. Then these guys are playing where they belong. It actually simplifies things without expending another wasted roster spot on yet another wasteful plug. If he is better than kulak who freaking cares. Get a #3-4 LD to play with weber edmonson goes back to petry and chairot goes to 3rd pairing where he belongs. How many times do we need to keep doing the same garbage. Weaver and gilbert improved this D group how much?

Move a damn 1st draft pick and get a guy we need. It won't do us any good in 3-5 years when weber and price are retired. Or admit you built a crap team, sell anything not nailed down and rebuild properly. I don't believe in "anything can happen if we just make the playoffs" you seem to. What is the point of signing a UFA when we are NOT making it out of this division. We may not even make the playoffs.

THIS is Burningbin covering his ass and hoping for a miracle.

Which #3-4 LD is available that you wanted?

 

[Bacchus1]

Looks like Riggs in Lethal Weapon.
Welcome into the Habs family Jon !

Reminds me of Andrew Shaw!

 

[robert ethan]

They really gave up nothing to get Merrill. Verbeek was going nowhere in the organisation, and by the time the 5th round of the draft occurs, every team is picking off it's own list. The guy they would have taken will still be there for their next pick, and probably would have been there for the following ones as well.

 

[River Meadow]

 

[Stoneburg]

As I posted from Arpon Bash’s article the org philosophically doesn’t believe in the criticality of point producing Dman

Sorry, but that is demonstrably false. Brook, Romanov, Leskinen, Guhle, Harris, and Norlinder, are all point producing Dmen that we drafted.

 

[Andy]

It's another trade that Bergevin kinda won. He's won pretty much every trade he made during his 9 years with the Habs. Can't blame him for that.

But in the end, there's no results. We're still a bubble team. He should be named "trade manager" and Molson should name a real general manager.

The teams MB acquires these players from don’t get any worse and the habs don’t get any better. For that reason I’d say he’s getting players for what they are worth.

 

[Edgy]

The job is not to replace Markov but to have a good moving puck D with some offense. Romanov might do that job some day. The job is not to reproduce the team we had between 2005 to 2018. We didn't win any Cup those years and we were out of PO pretty soon. Markov wasn't the best warrior in PO by the way. Even if MB replace Markov, Koivu, Higgins, Hamrlik, Ryder, Theodore and Zednik, we will not be a winning team.

The job is to win the Cup and it might be in building a team differently than before. Even in the best of 2003-2018, Habs never had wingers like Anderson and Toffoli and they never had young centers promising such as JK and Suzuki and a future snyper such as Caufield. Yes he will need a good moving puck D. There are some interresting D in the future and MB proved he can do trades. MB or another GM, getting a offensive D is possible.

Did you start watching the Habs yesterday? Bergevin had almost 9 years to find a replacement for Markov and you're talking "someday", we did not have a replacement in the minors when he took over in 2012, and other than Sergachev whom he traded in a useless and unnecessary trade, we had no one close to stepping in by the time Markov's contract was set to expire. He also did not acquire a suitable replacement via signing or trade. We've had nothing bug a revolving door of mediocre defensemen for almost 5 years.

Win a cup? We finished 24th, 14th, 28th, 7th, 22nd, 2nd, 9th, 4th ever sine he took over, what part of those placings screams contender to you?

You keep talking about "the future", none of those prospects has made it to the NHL yet, nothing is guaranteed. They do not count as replacements that were needed for at least 5 years.

Never had promising young centers? wingers like Anderson and Tofoli? Whose freakin job is it to get those? Who went and got us Schlemko, Hemsky, Alzner, Briere, Semin, Streit 2.0, and the just goes on and on...instead of getting the Toffolis and Andersons of the NHL?

Bottom line, he has failed to trade, draft or sign a puck moving LD for almost 10 years. This trade is just another example of his crap shoot gambles that do not address a need.