The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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Why would we? We aren't trying to compete. Gallagher on the other hand is a different story.
Waived: Joel Armia and Gustav Lindström waived (cleared)
- Thread starter Koivu11
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BLONG7
Registered User
Forgot about that................like Bgally is 8 and 9M this year and next.........ahhh MB, what a guy.
- Sep 6, 2006
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Flexing molson money right out of his biceps he was!
Agalloch
EliteProspects
River Meadow
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Playmaker09
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- Sep 11, 2008
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I'll wait to see what actually comes of this long-term (maybe they just tried to see who bites on waivers or are just sending a message, then when we put Price on LTIR and do all our cap shenanigans he comes back up), but if the plan is to bury him for the last two years then I'm confused and disappointed in the reactions here.
We went out of our way to do Petry a solid. Retained 50% for multiple years and sent him to his preferred destination while getting nothing of value in return. For a guy who completely mailed it in at the end of his time here and DEMANDED a trade out of Montreal.
Now we have another vet in Armia who hasn't said a single bad word about the org or about being benched, stayed through some tough seasons that Petry wanted no part of, and the plan is to bury him in the AHL for two years and effectively end his NHL career? To try and put pressure on him to mutually terminate his contract if he wants a shot on another team?
What happened to all that talk about developing a positive rep with the players? Why does that only apply to Petry and not Armia?
We went out of our way to do Petry a solid. Retained 50% for multiple years and sent him to his preferred destination while getting nothing of value in return. For a guy who completely mailed it in at the end of his time here and DEMANDED a trade out of Montreal.
Now we have another vet in Armia who hasn't said a single bad word about the org or about being benched, stayed through some tough seasons that Petry wanted no part of, and the plan is to bury him in the AHL for two years and effectively end his NHL career? To try and put pressure on him to mutually terminate his contract if he wants a shot on another team?
What happened to all that talk about developing a positive rep with the players? Why does that only apply to Petry and not Armia?
Agalloch
EliteProspects
Well....that's embarrassing...
Well the way Habs are doing works too.
Wideman on LTIR tomorrow, Armia to AHL and you call back Xhekaj. We have a cap hit of $44,584.
When you need to call up somebody else, Price on LTIR and we gain a lot of cap space. ($10,932,084)
Yep, Armia sent down and Xhekaj recalled.
I'm pretty sure that they will put Price on LTIR tomorrow since he's out for the year. Not sure about Wideman.
I thought that they would send down Barron and recall Lindstrom to be the 7th D, but it looks like Barron will stick... for now.
It will be interesting to see what they'll do with this newly created cap space.
Agreed. Hats off to you, and I learned something today though I am not sure of all of the whys and hows.Well....that's embarrassing...
Hughes clearly made a big deal about getting Price on in-season LTIR, saying things like "you can't accrue cap space when you use off-season LTIR".
But then we went ahead and put Dvorak on LTIR before the deadline.
I do see that this method avoids the bonuses for Slaf, Guhle, Barron* and Monahan being counted on the daily cap, though they will be added in at year end based on actual bonuses earned, and we will very likely have the room to absorb them with no effect on next year. (*this might only be true if they are not cut at one point and then return - yes?).
It seems to me now that Price does not need go on LTIR until we somehow use up the space created by flipping Armia and Xhekaj ($321.667) or Dvorak is cleared to return. We can also put Wideman on in-season LTIR and use that space ........ if we plan to waive him once he is healthy.
That being said, is there any harm to Price going on LTIR tomorrow?
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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Petry is still a good NHL player, but Armia stinks. There is nothing really else to it. I don't agree with the approach on the Petry trade, but these aren't similar situations at all.
Fully agreed.
From my perspective, sending Armia to Laval is not a bad thing for reputation : you are paid like a third liner, but are not Playing at the required level, you should be demoted. However, when you retain on Petry for two years at a cost of a 4th (while the cost of retention alone would likely be a 2nd) because you want to do good that by him, now that sets double standards…
Since Dvorak is already on LTIR, no harm to add Price, but it is totally pointless. He's probably going to be put there once Dvorak is ready to return.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
You want to back trace your steps on the the "No, Stop" narrative? Learning lessons there.
It's not pointless IMO. Moving Price to LTIR actually gives us more cap space because it can accrue in the time Dvorak is still out.
Right now, we either have $1M or $2M in cap space (not sure if we are saving a $1M with Armia or not), and that can't accrue because Dvorak was used as a LTIR contract before the season. Moving Price to LTIR with the larger contract changes the formula.
Very similar to when Weber was on LTIR before the season and then Price after the season. 2 or 3 seasons ago now?
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I don't think it's that easy to bury guys like Armia in the AHL when he is actually producing to bottom 6F NHL level. We are far often too guilty of attacking players for not reaching their cap values.
1M GM's in the their parents basements bud. Things we say and think are ignorant most of the time because we really don't have the information we think we do.
Having LTIR stop you from accruing cap space regardless if it is pre or in season, having a player on LTIR freeze it. Pre-season LTIR freeze at $0, in-season freeze it where ever they are at. You need to remove LTIR entirely during the season to be able to accrue cap space again (it's recalculated but I don't know the maths).
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I don't think you got this understood correctly. And I'm going to fail in explaining it.
Do you remember when Weber was on LTIR before the season and then Price was placed after the season? That allowed us to accrue cap space. Think about it more and I'm sure others will chime in
Teams do not really accrue cap space when LTIR is in use. They get a ACSL (Accruable Cap Space Limit) which is calculated and frozen when the first player is put on LTIR.
So you "we were accruing cap space with Price" was just filling up the pre-defined ACSL bucket.
So if I understand correctly, the reason we did not mind putting Dvorak on pre-season LTIR is that we needed $87.840M to accommodate the 23 guys the club wants on the team, plus Wideman and Price.
Sure we could have paper demoted guys for around $4M, but that would have resulted in using up that space anyway when they would be recalled PLUS we would have to count their potential bonuses on this year's daily cap calculations.
Before the season starts, then, it may be better to put a guy there you know is coming back in cases where you have a bigger contract you can snap on later. After the season starts, and you have a very nice ACSL, putting guys on for the balance of the year means not having to worry about anyone's bonuses and also maximizing the accruable room.
And if that is true, then we should be ok with putting Wideman on LTIR and using that space if an opportunity comes up - IF .... we know we will waive Chris (or some other identified expendable player) if and when he ever returns, something we can't do with Dvorak and won't be able to do with other roster players if they get hurt for a few weeks and would be eligible at our option.
I've acknowledged my error and am indeed retracing steps to better understand.
I think we will gain Armia's $1.150M but use up a portion with Xhekaj's $828k.
And right NOW, before that switch, we have zero cap space by definition - with an ACSL of $83,389,583
This is the lesson I think I absorbed.
Sort of. Only Weber never returned. Dvorak hopefully will. Am I on track now?
- Jun 24, 2012
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Interesting observation by Stéphane Leroux about Armia’s demotion.
Leroux affirme que Armia, qui touchera 4.8 millions de dollars en salaire cette saison, aura un incitatif supplémentaire à se présenter aux matchs du Rocket s'il y demeure. Puisqu'il évoluera dans la Ligue Américaine, il n'aura pas à contribuer le 6% de son salaire au fond de l'Escrow des joueurs de la LNH. Pour lui, ça représente une économie de 288 000$ directement dans ses poches.
Leroux says that Armia will have an additional incentive in playing for the Rocket. He’s making 4.8 M however, by playing in the AHL, he won’t have to contribute 6% of his salary to the NHL’s escrow fund, which will net him a sum of $288,000 over the season that he would have otherwise had to pay.
This guy has zero incentive to get out of his deal. He just found a way of making even more dough!
Leroux affirme que Armia, qui touchera 4.8 millions de dollars en salaire cette saison, aura un incitatif supplémentaire à se présenter aux matchs du Rocket s'il y demeure. Puisqu'il évoluera dans la Ligue Américaine, il n'aura pas à contribuer le 6% de son salaire au fond de l'Escrow des joueurs de la LNH. Pour lui, ça représente une économie de 288 000$ directement dans ses poches.
Leroux says that Armia will have an additional incentive in playing for the Rocket. He’s making 4.8 M however, by playing in the AHL, he won’t have to contribute 6% of his salary to the NHL’s escrow fund, which will net him a sum of $288,000 over the season that he would have otherwise had to pay.
This guy has zero incentive to get out of his deal. He just found a way of making even more dough!
Adam Michaels
Registered User
Marcotte mentions that Armia should officially be sent to Laval later today. He might already be in Laval and him on the Habs roster yesterday was more about cap management.
He will eventually get his game back. He won't play in Montreal again but he could salvage his career.
EveryDay
Registered User
- Jun 13, 2009
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I'm not so sure about that, if the team is getting several injuries like last year, Armia will be back at some point.
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