phillipmike
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- Oct 27, 2009
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Blue Jays Discussion: Joe Panik traded for the reliever we need.
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Anthrax442
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Not to scoreboard watch in June too hard but we got a Rays and Yankees loss today, into 3rd place we go.
He's actually known to be streaky, even in the minors. He will need to show he can be consistent over a longer period of time before I'd consider him legit. Either way, he's a left handed hitter with decent to good defense, so he's worth keeping around at least as a back-up...unless it's discovered his game calling is largely responsible for the bullpen's meltdown, but I'm pretty sure it was melting even when Jansen was calling games.
Anthrax442
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Suntouchable13
Registered User
We shouldn't expect our catchers to have .300 average with .800 OPS. We just need someone who can hit a little and not be a complete blackhole. He could be hitting .260 with a .650 OPS and I would be alright with that.
While he's not going to be a .320+ hitter, if you look at his entire MLB career and he's a .269 hitter over 95 games, you combine that with decent to good defense and I'm good with him being 1 of our catchers.
And yes, it was melting down when Jansen was catching too, actually there has been considerably less meltdown with McGuire behind the plate.
TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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The case for Gavin Williams as our pick.
1) Checks all the traditional scouting boxes: tall, strong, athletic.
2) College performer who is not far away from contributing (could even help the bullpen like Sale did).
3) Nasty pure stuff (FB up to 100 mph) with elite pitch data.
1) Checks all the traditional scouting boxes: tall, strong, athletic.
2) College performer who is not far away from contributing (could even help the bullpen like Sale did).
3) Nasty pure stuff (FB up to 100 mph) with elite pitch data.
Cleveland Indians outfielder Josh Naylor carted off field after collision - ESPN.com
MINNEAPOLIS -- Watching right fielder Josh Naylor and second baseman Ernie Clement on a collision course chasing a popup, everyone at Target Field kept waiting for somebody to veer off.
They never did.
The Cleveland Indians defenders smacked into each other, a scary moment Sunday that left Naylor with a significant injury and both dugouts shaken.
After an 8-2 loss to the Minnesota Twins, Indians manager Terry Francona said Naylor had suffered a broken bone -- but he wasn't sure which one -- and was being treated at a hospital.
"That's obviously playing out in front of anyone's eyes," Twins manager Rocco Baldelli said. "You can't, you know, once you see that, you're not going to unsee it, and it brings out feelings, too, and it's hard for people to sometimes regardless of what team you're on, refocus, and there's a lot of people that care about that young man, and we'll be thinking about him as time goes on."
The accident occurred in the fourth inning when Jorge Polanco checked his swing and made contact, sending a flare into the shallow outfield.
Naylor went flying and spinning after the collision and had his right foot catch underneath him, twisting the foot the wrong way.
Teammates immediately called for medical attention with Naylor writhing on the ground in agony. He was taken off the field on a stretcher with his right foot in an air cast.
"It's hard," Francona said. "You saw the way he reacted. It's hard to not react to that. Everybody's certainly thinking about him. I was worried about Ernie, too, because Ernie had a pretty good cut on his chin."
Clement had the ball glance off his glove for a single.
"To be honest, it was really, really hard," Indians catcher Rene Rivera said. "The way he reacted, it was heartbreaking, man. It's hard. A guy like him, nice guy in the clubhouse, really a lot of energy, positivity, and to see him go through that was really tough. You can tell the teammate, the full dugout was really shook."
Said Francona: "On the replay, Naylor, I think, was going to catch it right about shoulder height. So, he's got to call it. The second baseman, he's going until he hears something. So, there's got to be some communication there, and I don't believe there was."
Clement was playing his seventh game in the majors.
"He could have been on the receiving end, but he came out of it with just a cut on his chin," Francona said. "But he felt terrible and it wasn't his fault, but he felt terrible. He's a great kid."
MINNEAPOLIS -- Watching right fielder Josh Naylor and second baseman Ernie Clement on a collision course chasing a popup, everyone at Target Field kept waiting for somebody to veer off.
They never did.
The Cleveland Indians defenders smacked into each other, a scary moment Sunday that left Naylor with a significant injury and both dugouts shaken.
After an 8-2 loss to the Minnesota Twins, Indians manager Terry Francona said Naylor had suffered a broken bone -- but he wasn't sure which one -- and was being treated at a hospital.
"That's obviously playing out in front of anyone's eyes," Twins manager Rocco Baldelli said. "You can't, you know, once you see that, you're not going to unsee it, and it brings out feelings, too, and it's hard for people to sometimes regardless of what team you're on, refocus, and there's a lot of people that care about that young man, and we'll be thinking about him as time goes on."
The accident occurred in the fourth inning when Jorge Polanco checked his swing and made contact, sending a flare into the shallow outfield.
Naylor went flying and spinning after the collision and had his right foot catch underneath him, twisting the foot the wrong way.
Teammates immediately called for medical attention with Naylor writhing on the ground in agony. He was taken off the field on a stretcher with his right foot in an air cast.
"It's hard," Francona said. "You saw the way he reacted. It's hard to not react to that. Everybody's certainly thinking about him. I was worried about Ernie, too, because Ernie had a pretty good cut on his chin."
Clement had the ball glance off his glove for a single.
"To be honest, it was really, really hard," Indians catcher Rene Rivera said. "The way he reacted, it was heartbreaking, man. It's hard. A guy like him, nice guy in the clubhouse, really a lot of energy, positivity, and to see him go through that was really tough. You can tell the teammate, the full dugout was really shook."
Said Francona: "On the replay, Naylor, I think, was going to catch it right about shoulder height. So, he's got to call it. The second baseman, he's going until he hears something. So, there's got to be some communication there, and I don't believe there was."
Clement was playing his seventh game in the majors.
"He could have been on the receiving end, but he came out of it with just a cut on his chin," Francona said. "But he felt terrible and it wasn't his fault, but he felt terrible. He's a great kid."
The video of that injury is brutal. You can tell it’s a break ken bone by the way his foot flops around. 
“Rival executives say that two of the most aggressive teams looking for bullpen help have been the Atlanta Braves and Toronto Blue Jays.
With the Cubs and Nationals unlikely to sell, it takes Craig Kimbrel, Brad Hand and Daniel Hudson from the trade market. The best reliever now expected to be available is Pittsburgh Pirates right-hander Richard Rodriguez, who is already drawing trade interest, as well as Los Angeles Angels righty Raisel Iglesias, Texas Rangers righty Ian Kennedyand Seattle Mariners righty Kendall Graveman, among others.”
With the Cubs and Nationals unlikely to sell, it takes Craig Kimbrel, Brad Hand and Daniel Hudson from the trade market. The best reliever now expected to be available is Pittsburgh Pirates right-hander Richard Rodriguez, who is already drawing trade interest, as well as Los Angeles Angels righty Raisel Iglesias, Texas Rangers righty Ian Kennedyand Seattle Mariners righty Kendall Graveman, among others.”
Re catching, would keep McGuire & Kirk for the rest of the season, demote/trade Jansen + Adams.
I agree with this, I'd even go as far as saying that I'd rather see Moreno in the September call ups than Jansen.
I tried checking Spotrac to see if Jansen still had options and got nothing, is there a site y'all go to to get that info?
Even as a pinch hitter/3rd catcher. Give him reps with the big boys and a taste of the big leagues.
I know people always want to go after the absolute best relievers, but I think the Orioles have a few guys that would be worth nabbing. Tate isn't half bad, and the Orioles are in the position where they would probably take pretty much any prospect. Harvey might not be a bad idea, either, although now that I see his by inning splits Tabler was probably jumping the gun about him being good in early innings. Then again, relief is an entirely different style of pitching.
We should be spending the good prospects on young, controllable pitching. Remember, in three years, all of the starting staff is gone save for the depth pitchers. I can see Ray resigning, but you can't assume that (and I'm not sure we should; he'll be shooting for a big contract and I doubt he'll hold up for very long), and we're going to need a lot more than just Manoah and maybe SWR and Pearson.
lol I know. Even if Jansen was hitting well, there is still Kirk and Moreno behind him, other teams seem to want him, and he has had three new eye prescriptions in the last few years. If there was no Springer and Kirk had shown no signs of hitting Major League pitching like he has, I'd keep Jansen, but as it is, he's at the forefront of the Jays' catching depth and now McGuire is doing everything he was supposed to do.
We should be spending the good prospects on young, controllable pitching. Remember, in three years, all of the starting staff is gone save for the depth pitchers. I can see Ray resigning, but you can't assume that (and I'm not sure we should; he'll be shooting for a big contract and I doubt he'll hold up for very long), and we're going to need a lot more than just Manoah and maybe SWR and Pearson.
lol I know. Even if Jansen was hitting well, there is still Kirk and Moreno behind him, other teams seem to want him, and he has had three new eye prescriptions in the last few years. If there was no Springer and Kirk had shown no signs of hitting Major League pitching like he has, I'd keep Jansen, but as it is, he's at the forefront of the Jays' catching depth and now McGuire is doing everything he was supposed to do.
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Check here.
2021 Toronto Blue Jays Depth Chart | RosterResource | FanGraphs
Jansen has two options, so he can be sent down this year and be used as a 3rd catcher next year as well.
The only one that has to stay on the 26 man roster for the next two years is McGuire, although carrying 5 catchers does put pressure on the 40 man elsewhere. Trading catchers is probably a good idea, but not something they'll be forced to do for a while.
phillipmike
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Each individual Fangraph's page outlines if a player has options left or not. Jansen has 2 MiLB options left;
That being said, i doubt Jansen goes anywhere unless he is traded which in itself is very unlikely too. Jansen knows the staff very well and his DEF rating is top 10 among all catchers since coming into the league. If all 3 catchers are healthy i think the Jays carry all three catchers or maybe McGuire is moved when his value is high, which i dont think they should do at the moment. Its a great problem to have.
McGuire has a BABIP of .400 and Jansen is at .189.
Jansen actually has a higher hard-hit ball % at 38.2% vs. 33.3%
Basically McGuire is on a fluke hot streak where everything is dropping in front of outfielders while Jansen has been monstrously unlucky this season.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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At what point do we stop saying Jansen is unlucky and start saying he's not very good with the bat? For three years it's been the same story with his lack of luck. I've been a big Jansen guy but this argument is getting a little long in the tooth at this point
TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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BA has Jays taking Andrew Painter. Wonder if they bring in Chris Carpenter to mentor him. 
19
Andrew Painter
Calvary Christian HS, Fort Lauderdale, Fla.RHP
Notes:
We’ve heard the Blue Jays tied to two of the better high school players in Florida recently, in Painter and Jay Allen. Painter’s range seems quite wide, which is common for prep righthanders, but the Blue Jays sound like a team that has invested a lot of looks into him. This could be a nice addition to a farm system that has one of the best collections of bats in baseball. It wouldn’t be shocking to see Toronto add yet another catcher to that farm system either, with Ford or Joe Mack.
djdev
Registered User
i have already passed that point tbh. i just dont think hes ever gonna be anything but a very good defensive catcher that has gotten worse over the past few years at throwing runners out. honestly if he is traded etc it doesnt hurt us much imo. if hes a backup, cool..but hes nothing more than that atm. hopefully moreno turns out the way we all are hoping.
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Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
I mean, it's an insane "unlucky streak" that there's probably some truth to him just being not that good.
But if you look at any single season as a whole except for the first call up year, you fully expect some positive regression. He might not ever get the chance to prove it, but he shows a lot better signs at the plate than Reese at the very least and is a borderline elite defensive C. I'm not against trading him, but if people think Reese > Him lomg term I'm definitely skeptical. I'm not even sure I'd prefer Kirk long-term with how good be hitting 1-8.
To an extent, yes. Going forward Jansen looks to be trending toward projecting as a backup who will probably normally be in the 80-90 OPS+ range. If Kirk or Moreno can light it up, it's hard to justify sticking with giving Jansen 120 starts/year.
But the point is that McGuire is also a guy who projects in the same range as a hitter (or probably worse) but is just on a fluke streak now. And using that fluke streak to justify keeping McGuire over Jansen (who, while he might not be incredible hitter has still been obviously unlucky and is better than his numbers) might not be the best rationale and decision-making.
kb
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- Aug 28, 2009
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This. It reminds me of last year when there were calls on this board to play Rowdy full time and trade Vladdy jr before he "loses all value".
Hows that looking now? And it's some of the same ones talking about Jansen now. Probably time to scout T-ball.
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