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Blue Jays Discussion: Joe Panik: the hero we deserve

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hoglund said:
Let's wave the brooms in Boston tonight.
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Sadly, they lost the first game of the series 6-5 after entering the 8th with a 5-1 lead. That was a Montoyo special loss, so it shouldn't count. lol
 
Discoverer said:
Yeah, so that's where "it always comes down to term and price" comes in. It's not short-term thinking if Semien gets four years and his contract expires before Vlad and Bo hit free agency. And you have replaced Ray/Matz by keeping Semien and trading some of the prospect capital to bring in a very good, young, cost-controlled starter (like the Snell or Musgrove trades last year).

Neither of Vlad or Teoscar is going to get a $10 million raise. Teoscar might get a $3-4 million raise next year, and Vlad isn't going to get a raise at all because he'll still make the minimum next year, then as he gets more expensive (though still extremely cheap) the Ryu and Grichuk contracts come off the books. Allocating a significant portion of the payroll to "aging players" (also, "legitimate stars", but describe them how you like) is doable when you have a handful of young stars making league minimum and cheap arbitration rates.
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Isn't Vladdy's 1st Arb year next year? We have 7 years because he debuted a few weeks into 2019, he's played 3 years after this year and I think he's a super 2 so would get 4 Arb years. Of course he should still only get like 4.5 or so. I believe that was Donaldson's first Arb year price.

I think I'd go after 1 infielder(3B or SS because the SS class is so stacked) and 1 pitcher next year in free agency, 1 of which shorter term so they can allocate some of them money to the Vladdy/Bo later arb and free agent years. Then perhaps use a Biggio or Jansen+ to bring in a middle of a rotation pitcher with some term. Something like Correa and Scherzer. I assume Scherzer's term won't be that long because he's already 37.

They're at about 65 million already. Vladdy ~ 5 million, Teo ~ 8 million, Stripling ~4 million. That's 82 million for 7 players. Everyone else is either very cheap Arb or pre-arb. Lets say 12 million for the rest is 94 million leaving them 56 million to spend to a limit of 150.

CF Springer
SS Correa
1B Vladdy
DH Teo
3B Bo
C Kirk
RF Grichuk
LF Gurriel
2B Biggio

1B Rowdy
IF Espinal
OF Palacios
C Jansen

Scherzer
Ryu
______
Manoah
Stripling

Romano
Merryweather
_______
Borucki
_______
Mayza
Murphy
Thornton

Minor league depth
Pearson
SWR
Hatch
Kay
Murray
Castro

Moreno
Adams
Davis
Lopez
Smith

56 million is not really reasonable for Correa, Scherzer, another starter and 2 pen arms. Perhaps you go with a cheaper SS or 3rd base, or maybe bring Ray back and the guy you trade for is in his cheaper years. Maybe you fill 3B with Martin by then and can spend it all on pitching. Maybe you move Grichuk, Jansen/Moreno starts and Kirk DH's a lot and there's an extra 10 million to work with.

There are a bunch of options and none of them seem wrong. Feels like the 2022 team is going to be stacked
 
Last edited:
Canada4Gold said:
Isn't Vladdy's 1st Arb year next year? We have 7 years because he debuted a few weeks into 2019, he's played 3 years after this year and I think he's a super 2 so would get 4 Arb years. Of course he should still only get like 4.5 or so. I believe that was Donaldson's first Arb year price.

I think I'd go after infielder(3B or SS because the SS class is so stacked) and 1 pitcher next year in free agency, 1 of which shorter term so they can allocate some of them money to the Vladdy/Bo later arb free agent years. Then perhaps use a Biggio or Jansen+ to bring in a middle of a rotation pitcher with some term. Something like Correa and Scherzer. I assume Scherzer's term won't be that long because he's already 37.

They're at about 65 million already. Vladdy ~ 5 million, Teo ~ 8 million, Stripling ~4 million. That's 82 million for 7 players. Everyone else is either very cheap Arb or pre-arb. Lets say 12 million for the rest is 94 million leaving them 56 million to spend to a limit of 150.

CF Springer
SS Correa
1B Vladdy
DH Teo
3B Bo
C Kirk
RF Grichuk
LF Gurriel
2B Biggio

1B Rowdy
IF Espinal
OH Palacios
C Jansen

Scherzer
Ryu
______
Manoah
Stripling

Romano
Merryweather
_______
Borucki
_______
Mayza
Murphy
Thornton

Minor league depth
Pearson
SWR
Hatch
Kay
Murray
Castro

Moreno
Adams
Davis
Lopez
Smith

56 million is not really reasonable for Correa, Scherzer, another starter and 2 pen arms. Perhaps you go with a cheaper SS or 3rd base, or maybe bring Ray back and the guy you trade for is in his cheaper years. Maybe you fill 3B with Martin by then and can spend it all on pitching. Maybe you move Grichuk, Jansen/Moreno starts and Kirk DH's a lot and there's an extra 10 million to work with.

There are a bunch of options and none of them seem wrong. Feels like the 2022 team is going to be stacked
Click to expand...

I hadn't considered Super Two... if he is a Super Two guy the yeah, he hits Arb next year.
 
Interesting to see who they go to for that next start. Matz pitched on the 12th so they need someone for the 17th. Kay pitched yesterday so isn't likely an option. They could go with Hatch but he only threw 51 pitches in his last start and it building up so you're looking at 70 pitches at best. Maybe Nate Pearson but I feel like they want him to build some consistent confidence down in AAA rather than yo-yo him again.
 
Canada4Gold said:
Interesting to see who they go to for that next start. Matz pitched on the 12th so they need someone for the 17th. Kay pitched yesterday so isn't likely an option. They could go with Hatch but he only threw 51 pitches in his last start and it building up so you're looking at 70 pitches at best. Maybe Nate Pearson but I feel like they want him to build some consistent confidence down in AAA rather than yo-yo him again.
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I think they will go with a bullpen start.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
Isn't Vladdy's 1st Arb year next year? We have 7 years because he debuted a few weeks into 2019, he's played 3 years after this year and I think he's a super 2 so would get 4 Arb years. Of course he should still only get like 4.5 or so. I believe that was Donaldson's first Arb year price.

I think I'd go after 1 infielder(3B or SS because the SS class is so stacked) and 1 pitcher next year in free agency, 1 of which shorter term so they can allocate some of them money to the Vladdy/Bo later arb and free agent years. Then perhaps use a Biggio or Jansen+ to bring in a middle of a rotation pitcher with some term. Something like Correa and Scherzer. I assume Scherzer's term won't be that long because he's already 37.

They're at about 65 million already. Vladdy ~ 5 million, Teo ~ 8 million, Stripling ~4 million. That's 82 million for 7 players. Everyone else is either very cheap Arb or pre-arb. Lets say 12 million for the rest is 94 million leaving them 56 million to spend to a limit of 150.

CF Springer
SS Correa
1B Vladdy
DH Teo
3B Bo
C Kirk
RF Grichuk
LF Gurriel
2B Biggio

1B Rowdy
IF Espinal
OF Palacios
C Jansen

Scherzer
Ryu
______
Manoah
Stripling

Romano
Merryweather
_______
Borucki
_______
Mayza
Murphy
Thornton

Minor league depth
Pearson
SWR
Hatch
Kay
Murray
Castro

Moreno
Adams
Davis
Lopez
Smith

56 million is not really reasonable for Correa, Scherzer, another starter and 2 pen arms. Perhaps you go with a cheaper SS or 3rd base, or maybe bring Ray back and the guy you trade for is in his cheaper years. Maybe you fill 3B with Martin by then and can spend it all on pitching. Maybe you move Grichuk, Jansen/Moreno starts and Kirk DH's a lot and there's an extra 10 million to work with.

There are a bunch of options and none of them seem wrong. Feels like the 2022 team is going to be stacked
Click to expand...

I’ll take a go

Tellez, Groshans, Grichuck (or similar package) for Devers/Chapman or Jose Ramirez.
Re-sign Semien.
2022 lineup.
  1. Springer
  2. Semien
  3. Gurrerro
  4. Hernandez
  5. Chapman
  6. Bichette
  7. Biggio
  8. Moreno/Kirk
  9. Gurriel/Martin
Sign Ray, Sign Noah or Max Scherzer.
Trade Martinez,Kloff, Jansen for Marquez
  1. Syndergaard
  2. Ryu
  3. Marquez
  4. Ray
  5. Manoah
Depth SP: Stripling, Hatch.
AAA SP: Pearson, SWR.

Bullpen:
Romano
Merryweather
Dolis
Borucki
Hatch
Castro
SWR/Pearson?
Thornton
-
Kay
Cole
 
canucksfan said:
With Springer coming back soon hopefully, how would you construct the lineup with him back?
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Assuming he was ok with it I think I'd start him at 5. Take some pressure off and the top 4 are just raking lately. Eventually he goes to the leadoff spot and you figure the rest out, but for now I'm fine with him at 5. Taking Semien out of the leadoff spot seems unnecessary. Bo at 5 and Springer/Semien 1/2 is fine too I guess.
 
djdev said:
i dont even wanna trade for anyone until this manager is fired tbh. everytime this team has a good stretch of play montoyo does something astoundingly braindead and kills our momentum.
Click to expand...

The offense didn't exactly keep the momentum going, either.
 
Discoverer said:
The offense didn't exactly keep the momentum going, either.
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i expected this type of game from them today tbh after yesterday. but we had just tied it up in spectacular fashion, only to get montoyo'ed immediately after. a 2 - 1 win is just as good in the standings. this manager is costing us wins with how he manages the pitching on a game to game basis.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
Assuming he was ok with it I think I'd start him at 5. Take some pressure off and the top 4 are just raking lately. Eventually he goes to the leadoff spot and you figure the rest out, but for now I'm fine with him at 5. Taking Semien out of the leadoff spot seems unnecessary. Bo at 5 and Springer/Semien 1/2 is fine too I guess.
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I get the feeling Charlie will put him right back at #1. At that point, do you go with Teo, Semien or Bo at #5? Either way, a disgusting top 5 in any order.
 
How mad should we be if the Jays waste one of the best seasons ever by a Toronto player by not making the playoffs?
 
TheMadHatTrick said:
How mad should we be if the Jays waste one of the best seasons ever by a Toronto player by not making the playoffs?
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i have a feeling that vlad is going to have a career filled with some pretty amazing seasons, he's a more complete hitter than his hall of fame father imo. hes 22 and already looks like prime miggy lol
 
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