Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey

[NickyFotiu]

I mean I get what you're saying, but isn't the player making note of it proof enough?

I do not know how NHL players do it. With all the practices, hotels, plane flights, car service, etc. I would have dead legs in 30% of the games.

 

[Trxjw]

Mmmm.... yes and no.

This didn't impact Hayes at all.

In 14-15, Gaudreau had 35 points in 46 games pre All-Star, and 29 in 34 post All-Star.

I think it's a convenient excuse that makes a lot of sense. I just want to see it studied. I do have plans to do this eventually, and I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been done yet. (or it has, and I can't find it).

I think you're overlooking a major aspect though, and that's the program Vesey came from. With all due respect to Harvard, it's not the kind of hockey program BC is. Guys coming out of major hockey schools are better conditioned because they have a stronger program. While the ECAC has been getting better year over year, it's still a pretty weak conference overall.

On the flip side, BC isn't the academic equal to Harvard either and he probably faced a tougher schedule in that regard as well.

 

[Fitzy]

I think you're overlooking a major aspect though, and that's the program Vesey came from. With all due respect to Harvard, it's not the kind of hockey program BC is. Guys coming out of major hockey schools are better conditioned because they have a stronger program. While the ECAC has been getting better year over year, it's still a pretty weak conference overall.

On the flip side, BC isn't the academic equal to Harvard either and he probably faced a tougher schedule in that regard as well.

Extremely debatable.

ECAC is leaps and bounds ahead of the Western division, and is arguably getting closer to the NCHC. The only real difference is that a lot of the other conferences are more top-and-bottom heavy.

 

[silverfish]

I think you're overlooking a major aspect though, and that's the program Vesey came from. With all due respect to Harvard, it's not the kind of hockey program BC is. Guys coming out of major hockey schools are better conditioned because they have a stronger program. While the ECAC has been getting better year over year, it's still a pretty weak conference overall.

On the flip side, BC isn't the academic equal to Harvard either and he probably faced a tougher schedule in that regard as well.

But the whole discussion is about the schedule, and playing games on weekends, right? And only playing 30 games. In that sense, I think it'd be okay to include all NCAA players in this study. Breaking it out by NCAA conference would just be a way, at least I think, to chase the analysis you want to see, and not what the analysis actually is.

 

[Trxjw]

Extremely debatable.

ECAC is leaps and bounds ahead of the Western division, and is arguably getting closer to the NCHC. The only real difference is that a lot of the other conferences are more top-and-bottom heavy.

Ehhhh. If anything I think it falls right in line with what you're saying about conferences being top and/or bottom heavy.

 

[Leetch66]

I hope they send him down at some point and have him back raring to go for the playoffs .....it would not hurt him one bit .

 

[Trxjw]

But the whole discussion is about the schedule, and playing games on weekends, right? And only playing 30 games. In that sense, I think it'd be okay to include all NCAA players in this study. Breaking it out by NCAA conference would just be a way, at least I think, to chase the analysis you want to see, and not what the analysis actually is.

Not exactly. That's part of it, but I think certain programs do a better job of preparing kids for the NHL. I don't think you need to break it out by conference, but I think you'd see a strong correlation between longevity in their first season and the school they came from. Now, some of that is obviously attributed to better hockey schools attracting better athletes, but I still think it's an important distinction.

I mean, people actually questioned Vesey's commitment to hockey when he chose to go to Harvard. I think that speaks volumes about how these programs are perceived.

 

[silverfish]

Not exactly. That's part of it, but I think certain programs do a better job of preparing kids for the NHL. I don't think you need to break it out by conference, but I think you'd see a strong correlation between longevity in their first season and the school they came from. Now, some of that is obviously attributed to better hockey schools attracting better athletes, but I still think it's an important distinction.

I mean, people actually questioned Vesey's commitment to hockey when he chose to go to Harvard. I think that speaks volumes about how these programs are perceived.

Okay, by my count, there are 28 players from the ECAC in the NHL right now. http://collegehockeyinc.com/pages/2016-17-alums-nhl

Of those 28 players, besides Vesey, the only player to make a direct NHL jump was Lee Stempniak.

Did an AHL stint in October (started in NHL) and again at the end of February (or maybe injury?). Splits:

Through end January: 25 games | 4 goals | 4 assists
Feb through EOY: 32 games | 10 goals | 9 assists

Which says a few things to me:

1) This shouldn't be used as a crutch for Vesey hitting the rookie wall, but more as an opportunity to realize that maybe he could use some AHL time.

2) It's kind of funny that the only comparable we do have crushed the 2nd half of the season relative to the first half (with AHL time mixed into his first half).

3) I think the conclusion we might find, between first half and second half scoring of NCAA to NHL rookies might surprise us. I have no basis for this, just a feeling, that perhaps this 'rookie wall' isn't as big of a deal as we think it is.

Generally speaking, if you're good enough to be in the NHL, you're good enough to be in the NHL.

 

[Trxjw]

Okay, by my count, there are 28 players from the ECAC in the NHL right now. http://collegehockeyinc.com/pages/2016-17-alums-nhl

Of those 28 players, besides Vesey, the only player to make a direct NHL jump was Lee Stempniak.

Did an AHL stint in October (started in NHL) and again at the end of February (or maybe injury?). Splits:

Through end January: 25 games | 4 goals | 4 assists
Feb through EOY: 32 games | 10 goals | 9 assists

Which says a few things to me:

1) This shouldn't be used as a crutch for Vesey hitting the rookie wall, but more as an opportunity to realize that maybe he could use some AHL time.

2) It's kind of funny that the only comparable we do have crushed the 2nd half of the season relative to the first half (with AHL time mixed into his first half).

3) I think the conclusion we might find, between first half and second half scoring of NCAA to NHL rookies might surprise us. I have no basis for this, just a feeling, that perhaps this 'rookie wall' isn't as big of a deal as we think it is.

Generally speaking, if you're good enough to be in the NHL, you're good enough to be in the NHL.

Our only comparable faced a far different situation and was a much different type of player. If we were heading for a 1st overall pick and had jettisoned a number of our best players, Vesey would be getting consistent top-six minutes and would likely be scoring more.

I think Vesey would definitely benefit from some time in the AHL though. I just think theres probably something to the rumors of the Rangers promising him NHL time which is keeping that from happening.

 

[NickyFotiu]

That was a nhl goal for sure. This kid has quick hands below the dots.

 

[nyr2k2]

Vesey has been playing well the past few games, IMO. Glad to see him rewarded with a goal. He showed some filthy hands there.

 

[Irishguy42]

That little backhand-forehand move was so slick. Love it.

 

[Trxjw]

Vesey before that shift: "Complimentary winger? Can't create my own offense? **** you, Trxjw."

 

[bl02]

He needs to play with Nash or not at all. he's such a different player playing with Nash

 

[Mac n Gs]

Kid plays such a pro's pro game. Super smart on the forecheck, great defensive reads, and puts himself in the right position. It was only a matter of time before the puck started bouncing in favor of the Vesey-Stepan-Nash line

 

[mrmovies779]

He needs to play with Nash or not at all. he's such a different player playing with Nash

Agreed.Nash opens up so much more room for him.

 

[Inferno]

He played well before that goal.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Bob was completely stunned by that moved, such a sneaky little shot.

 

[Beacon]

Vesey is a good player, but he won't be a star. Middle-6 next year, maybe second line in a couple years. Still great to have that added for no assets and without giving a UFA contract.

 

[TheGuarantee]

Vesey is a good player, but he won't be a star. Middle-6 next year, maybe second line in a couple years. Still great to have that added for no assets and without giving a UFA contract.

That's a free first round pick (I know he was drafted in the 3rd)

 

[aufheben]

Vesey before that shift: "Complimentary winger? Can't create my own offense? **** you, Trxjw."

I feel ya.

 

[Kakko]

I'm continually blown away by how physical he can be

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Vesey is a good player, but he won't be a star. Middle-6 next year, maybe second line in a couple years. Still great to have that added for no assets and without giving a UFA contract.

And he doesn't have to be a star. Not every player needs to be an all-star or something.

Vesey will turn out to be a good top 6 player in all likelihood (good 3rd line player at worst), and we got him for free.

 

[RangerBoy]

This is from August of 2016

The Boston Herald requires an account to access their articles after 14 days

Here is the item on Vesey

A veteran NHL amateur scout recently offered a remarkably complimentary analysis of the 6-foot-2, 195-pound Vesey: “I think he’s going to be a step-in player into the National Hockey league. Ultimately, he’ll be a top-six player, given a little time. It’s a big step from where he was to where he’s going. There’s going to be an adjustment for him, but I think he’s going to be a very good player. I think he’ll be a guy who can step into the NHL and play right away. Then, a month at a time, he’ll get better and better — and he’ll keep getting better year by year. By his third season he should be an excellent top-six forward.

“He’s a very intelligent guy — with the intelligence it takes to graduate from a place like Harvard, and his on-ice awareness. He demonstrates the same type of intelligence on the ice that he demonstrates in the classroom. I’ve watched him very closely. When something happens on the ice, he reacts very quickly and very positively. And his skating has improved tremendously during his four years at Harvard.â€

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...e_rest_of_nhl_await_decision_from_jimmy_vesey

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=121513785&postcount=294

Everything that scout said has been spot on. 100%. Vesey played from day one. There was been an adjustment period. Vesey can play.

Vesey said he is adjusting to the rigors of the NHL. He played two games per game on the weekend on Harvard.

Jimmy Vesey has spent the last two months or so visiting with the Rangers’ strength and conditioning coach, Reg Grant, before and after games and practices. The rookie winger out of Harvard is grinding though this season, playing more games than he ever has, and is trying to find a way to pick his play back up to the level it was when he started the year.

“It’s just that this is different than playing 30 games,†Vesey told The Post after Sunday’s practice, before his team flew to Columbus for a game against the Blue Jackets on Monday night. “Here we work out after games. In college, it was like, go do schoolwork, or my family or everyone’s family was at games. And we only played twice a week. So I’m still in the process of becoming a pro.â€

http://nypost.com/2017/02/13/jimmy-vesey-trying-to-recapture-early-season-magic-for-rangers/

Give him time. Give Buchnevich time. It's a process.

 

[Ori]

Yes, a good insight, @Rangerboy with sources too.
He has surprised me positive this year - J. Vesey, and both need time to develop for sure.