Confirmed with Link: Jimmy Howard re-signed for 6 years 5.3m per year

[Michael Brand Eggs]

No Lidstrom + nobody else on D that plays defense + Howard is very good = 6 years $32 mil.

This is pretty simple math.

Mrazek isn't ready and wasn't going to be ready enough for the Wings' standards any time soon.

The only two decent UFA alternatives this summer would have been Backstrom (who is 35 and has had increasing injury issues the last few years) and Mike Smith, who was terrible his whole career, was great last year, and then went back to being terrible this year.

I don't know why people would have a problem with this, aside from the people that have a problem with everything.

It's a situation where it's a bad option, but every other option is worse. It's like capitalism.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Those deals were signed years ago. A starting goalie in the NHL costs you $5 million at least.

Wuuuuuaaah?

Anderson, Schnieder, Bobrovsky, Crawford, Halak, Neimi...

5 Million? Please.

 

[Heaton]

Wuuuuuaaah?

Anderson, Schnieder, Bobrovsky, Crawford, Halak, Neimi...

5 Million? Please.

I get your point, but those aren't exactly the best or equal examples.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

I get your point, but those aren't exactly the best or equal examples.

They are examples, though, one way or another.

Goaltender is a bit like a closer in baseball(at least these days).

Seems very unpredictable. I wouldn't want to pay a lot of money over a long term for either.

It is what it is though. I don't think Howard is overpaid compared to the market prices, but there are examples at either end of the spectrum as to whether someone thinks he is or is not.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

Are you ****ing kidding me Holland? Six years?

 

[sarcastro]

It's a situation where it's a bad option, but every other option is worse. It's like capitalism.

It's not really that bad of an option though.

Even next year when the cap is at the lowest point it will ever be again, his cap hit will be 8.2% of the team cap. That's less than 1/12 of the cap. It still leaves them plenty of room to sign the guys they need to sign and get the team shaped the way it needs to be shaped.

If you try to go year to year with mediocre journeyman goalies, you end up with years like 2005-06. They're not in a position to cart out a world-class defensive unit and have a bargain goalie behind them to sweep up the odd chance or two that sneak by - they need a top-tier goalie to cover up for the weaknesses in the D until they can get those holes patched.

The guys they have in the pipeline that look like they're on the NHL track are all offense-first guys. The shutdown D in the system are all longshots. We've seen that UFA is not a wise route to try and shore up your D. So it stands to reason that this team is going to have a long period of time going forward where they have a defensive corps that chips in a lot of offense but makes a lot of defensive mistakes and doesn't PK all that well.

 

[Crymson]

Wuuuuuaaah?

Anderson, Schnieder, Bobrovsky, Crawford, Halak, Neimi...

5 Million? Please.

In case you're unaware, Bobrovsky is in his first good season, and Schneider, Crawford, and Halak got their contracts through restricted free agency.

But nice try.

 

[MissNHL]

Not a fan of the deal at all. Howard won't win us a cup. He's a decent goalie but he really needs to elevate his game to another level to win us a Cup and I can't see him doing it. So, I do not see the Cup coming home for these next 6 years. *sigh*

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Annti Niemi, with a Stanley Cup and a playoff victories over Howard, looks across the rink and wonders how Jimmy Howard just signed a contract that pays him $1.5M more a year than he gets

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Annti Niemi, with a Stanley Cup and a playoff victories over Howard, looks across the rink and wonders how Jimmy Howard just signed a contract that pays him $1.5M more a year than he gets

Niemi's teams have been much more talented than Howard's. And his role in his Stanley cup victory was potentially as minimal as Chris Osgood's in 1998.

 

[str8shooter]

I think you guys made a very reasonable move here, all things considered. People tend to underrate Howard a good bit, apparently.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Niemi's teams have been much more talented than Howard's. And his role in his Stanley cup victory was potentially as minimal as Chris Osgood's in 1998.

You know, I crapped on Niemi after his cup win. But every time I watch him play, he looks every bit as good or better than Howard

 

[GT500x]

Not a fan of the deal at all. Howard won't win us a cup. He's a decent goalie but he really needs to elevate his game to another level to win us a Cup and I can't see him doing it. So, I do not see the Cup coming home for these next 6 years. *sigh*

I don't like the term of the contract but I think he can win a cup. If Osgood can, Howie can.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

It's not really that bad of an option though.

Even next year when the cap is at the lowest point it will ever be again, his cap hit will be 8.2% of the team cap. That's less than 1/12 of the cap. It still leaves them plenty of room to sign the guys they need to sign and get the team shaped the way it needs to be shaped.

If you try to go year to year with mediocre journeyman goalies, you end up with years like 2005-06. They're not in a position to cart out a world-class defensive unit and have a bargain goalie behind them to sweep up the odd chance or two that sneak by - they need a top-tier goalie to cover up for the weaknesses in the D until they can get those holes patched.

The guys they have in the pipeline that look like they're on the NHL track are all offense-first guys. The shutdown D in the system are all longshots. We've seen that UFA is not a wise route to try and shore up your D. So it stands to reason that this team is going to have a long period of time going forward where they have a defensive corps that chips in a lot of offense but makes a lot of defensive mistakes and doesn't PK all that well.

A couple points -
I think Howie is getting his market value. I can live with the deal as long as there is no NTC

But still, when have the Red Wings had "World Class" defenses? 1997 was probably our best, but we still had old Murphy, old Festisov and old Rouse.

1998 we added Macoun and Anders eriksson after losing Konstantinov and...I forget who else we lost.

2002 we had Lidstrom and Chelios, but Fischer was 21 and mistake prone. Olausson was old. Duschene and Olausson were at the end of their rop.

2008 was probably one of our best with Lidstrom and Rafalski, Stuart and Kronwall. But we Lebda and Lilja...

The Wings haven't been running world class defense groups. And they've not had the 6'4 stay-at-home, physical guys either.

They win with a defense that moves the puck and forwards who keep the puck, and centers that play excellent defense.

When you do that well, you minimize what's required of you're goalie -- just as Hitchcock and Tippett minimize what's required of their goalies.

 

[Syckle78]

Goaltending and this contract are the least of the Wings problems, imo.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't like the term of the contract but I think he can win a cup. If Osgood can, Howie can.

I don't know on what planet you live but send me a postcard.

(That's no indictment of Howard btw, he's a capable netminder, it's more about the relative ability to win Cups of the teams Osgood won with vs. Howard's team that he is a part of now and will be the next 5 years).

 

[Claypool]

Annti Niemi, with a Stanley Cup and a playoff victories over Howard, looks across the rink and wonders how Jimmy Howard just signed a contract that pays him $1.5M more a year than he gets

Niemi signed his contract after he had to prove to San Jose he was worth it. Go back and look at the thread for it. Everyone was saying he was overpaid. Looks like a bargin now.

 

[GT500x]

I don't know on what planet you live but send me a postcard.

(That's no indictment of Howard btw, he's a capable netminder, it's more about the relative ability to win Cups of the teams Osgood won with vs. Howard's team that he is a part of now and will be the next 5 years).

Well, I was addressing the question as I thought it was being asked -- meaning all things being equal. I agree that Howard on this team doesn't have a good chance at winning a cup unless you ask Ken Holland.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Niemi signed his contract after he had to prove to San Jose he was worth it. Go back and look at the thread for it. Everyone was saying he was overpaid. Looks like a bargin now.

Right.
exactly my point.

Here's a guy who won a cup and we all thought he was a fraud.

And now we're happy to give Howie all this money for a 13-15 playoff record.

We might be better off looking for a fraud, is the point.

 

[pdd]

I guess they're planning on an Osgood-Hasek situation by rolling with Howard-Mrazek... For all intents and purposes a Howard-Mrazek combo would be the closest thing to Osgood-Hasek considering how close in style the two are to their respective comparisons.

So which one of Osgood and Hasek is a full-on butterfly goalie?

Niemi's teams have been much more talented than Howard's. And his role in his Stanley cup victory was potentially as minimal as Chris Osgood's in 1998.

Osgood was much more of a factor in securing the Wings' Cup in 1998 than Niemi was in Chicago's Cup.

The reason people look at that Chicago team and think it was so stacked is because it was. Except in net; Niemi was mediocre at the time. The rest of the team compared well to many Cup winners from just before the lockout. Detroit in 2008 and 2009 also had a deep team all around, but Osgood was second only to Zetterberg in importance in the 2008 run, and was probably the team's MVP in the 2009 playoffs.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

I'm okay with this. I'm a Howard fan though.

He can only improve imo. unless you are luongo

 

[joe89]

Why not just wait with the announcement until it's done? Was it because TSN leaked it?

 

[Claypool]

We might be better off looking for a fraud, is the point.

This is what Tampa Bay is doing right now. Think it's a sound strategy?

 

[ricky0034]

so most posts i've seen are either universally positive or universally negative about the deal

but i've seen some people fine with the money but angry about the term

why is that exactly? with this deal we would have Howard signed for his 29-34 years old years(technically the contract would end at 35 but it's a bit misleading to say that since he doesn't turn 35 until the end of march of the last year of the deal) which are generally pretty good years for a Goalie

IF Mrazek ever gets to the point where he's better than Howard(and as high as a lot of people here are on him and I am too it's still FAR from certain that that will ever happen,he's a Goalie prospect,in his first year in the pros,and Howard is actually pretty good) then a few years down the line this is what we'll have in Howard: a good Goalie who isn't old signed to a reasonable cap hit for a good term(he'd be signed for like 3 more years so anyone trading for him would be assured of having him around for a while but he also wouldn't be locked up until the end of time,sounds like something of a sweet spot as far as trade value goes for contract length for a middle aged Goalie)

I guess I could see a possible issue if he had an NTC but assuming he didn't how would the situation I just described be anything but a good thing to be in? Howard would actually have some legitimate trade value

i'm honestly curious about the reasoning of people being okay with the money but against the term

 

[14ari13]

This is from another post, but it applies here.

Here's the problem with Holland, the Howard signing sums it up really. What kind of team could use a very good but not great goalie at a pretty high price tag? A contender probably. Are the Wings a contender? No. Will they be one any time soon? Highly unlikely. So how does this move make sense? It doesn't in a strategic sense, it does if you think roster management means rewarding good players, good guys who have provided good services rather than a comprehensive vision for the future. That's Kenny Holland in a nutshell. The guy will sit on a roster as long as he can. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are on the downward slope and Datsyuk is probably gone soon enough anyway. There is no contending core and none of the prospects are anywhere near the level where they will be one in the near future. Not saying they can't be good players, but good players don't get you anywhere in the NHL. Elite players get you somewhere and you have to be a perennial optimist to identify a potential future Hall of Famer in our prospect pool.

Howard's deal might not be bad, but I find it very bad for the Wings in our situation.
I really think we will very quicky be in the company of Flames and Avs, or actually Florida and Carolina.