Prospect Info: Jets Prospects

[Joe Hallenback]

If we kept that pick and drafted someone else we would still be on here complaining. Move on and talk about the prospects we actually have now

 

[Gm0ney]

Just a note on a forgotten prospect; Vesalainen has cut ties with his SHL team, back in Liiga with HIFK where he has 1 assist in 2 games.

This guy doesn't seem to be happy anywhere...23 years old and now on his 9th pro team! Edit: 8th pro team. But still...

 

[10Ducky10]

In hindsight, going back to Finland that one year really helped KV.

 

[garret9]

I believe @garret9 at that time suggested something to the tune of Jets very likely taking Liljegren if he was available at 13 based on his sources.

True but that's how long ago and amateur scouts aren't pro scouts so who knows what's true now

I believe that was some time earlier. May have changed by draft day, or not. Still, Liljegren would be better than nothing.

I think Lilly is really underrated

 

[surixon]

True but that's how long ago and amateur scouts aren't pro scouts so who knows what's true now


I think Lilly is really underrated

Yeah he's turned into a solid number 4 dmen imo. Would have been better then Ves.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Yeah he's turned into a solid number 4 dmen imo. Would have been better then Ves.

When I first watched on the Moose, I thought this guy had a lot of tools, Big, skates well and handles the puck skillfully. He didn't have that natural scoring touch though. But he looked like a guy what might work his way into a very solid middle 6 guy in the mold of Joel Armia. Armia never lived up to his draft status but he has had a solid career.

Then a buddy of mine who works for the Jets told me Vesa wanted to go back home because he didn't like the Jets trying to turn him into a checker. I just knew that was going to be the end of him in the NHL

 

[MardyBum]

Trying to coach/develop players to play a completely different type of game only works with the type of personality that will be receptive to that, and is also capable of doing it, and clearly Vesalainen wasn't. Went from a one dimensional offensive player to a no dimensions guy who was just there.

It was the plan for years, Vincent said as much and Whileee used to talk about it back when he was around.

Not every physically big player can be Adam Lowry in the ozone.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Trying to coach/develop players to play a completely different type of game only works with the type of personality that will be receptive to that, and is also capable of doing it, and clearly Vesalainen wasn't. Went from a one dimensional offensive player to a no dimensions guy who was just there.

It was the plan for years, Vincent said as much and Whileee used to talk about it back when he was around.

Not every physically big player can be Adam Lowry in the ozone.

If you want/need the guy to be that different a player to what he has been, why did you draft him in the first place?

I think it is a mistake to plan on changing a guy that much. You should work with what he has and try to add to that. But there is also the thing where you look at the roster and have to tell a player that he needs to do certain things because that is what there is an opening for. A fine line, I think.

 

[KingBogo]

If you want/need the guy to be that different a player to what he has been, why did you draft him in the first place?

I think it is a mistake to plan on changing a guy that much. You should work with what he has and try to add to that. But there is also the thing where you look at the roster and have to tell a player that he needs to do certain things because that is what there is an opening for. A fine line, I think.

Not sure they were trying to change him that much. Seems like it was pretty standard stuff to be able to play in the NHL. No one who isn't absolutely elite at it, gets to be a one dimensional goal scorer in the NHL. And even guys like Connor who are far better natural goal scores had to learn to play defense at a certain level to be effective.

 

[surixon]

If you want/need the guy to be that different a player to what he has been, why did you draft him in the first place?

I think it is a mistake to plan on changing a guy that much. You should work with what he has and try to add to that. But there is also the thing where you look at the roster and have to tell a player that he needs to do certain things because that is what there is an opening for. A fine line, I think.

Yup. Gotta wonder if they wanted him to be that type from day 1 or if they changed gears a couple of years in when it started to look like his offense wasn't translating to NA ice.

It is quite the interesting phenomenon as it seems role filling plays a big role in who gets promoted.

I mean we have heard from Josh Morrissey that he had to change his game otherwise he wouldn't have been playing in the NHL when he did due to the team having Buff, Myers and Trouba and to a lesser extent Toby as offensive dmen.

We are seeing a bit of that with Ville now as his skillset is covered by vets much like with JoMo. He just hasn't converted to a d first guy like JoMo to force the team to play him.

So a lot of times role plays a big role in personnel decisions and if a player wants to make it sometimes they need to alter their games to do what it takes to get their foot in the door.

Edit: At the same time I wonder how many players who could have had NHL careers have failed to have one due to being drafted to teams that didn't have roles available that aligned with their talent/strengths. Not every player can successfully alter their games to play a different role.

 

[Jack7222]

Not sure they were trying to change him that much. Seems like it was pretty standard stuff to be able to play in the NHL. No one who isn't absolutely elite at it, gets to be a one dimensional goal scorer in the NHL. And even guys like Connor who are far better natural goal scores had to learn to play defense at a certain level to be effective.

I dunno. To me the issue with NHL Ves was not that he was bad defensively, it's that he had zero offense. So it's hard to know what happened there and possible that stylistic changes neutered the one thing he was good at and the reason he'd been drafted in the first place. Dude definitely did himself no favours early on though

 

[Atoyot]

Salomonsson playing.

EDIT: No he isn't dummy. Injured.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

If you want/need the guy to be that different a player to what he has been, why did you draft him in the first place?

I think it is a mistake to plan on changing a guy that much. You should work with what he has and try to add to that. But there is also the thing where you look at the roster and have to tell a player that he needs to do certain things because that is what there is an opening for. A fine line, I think.

Sounds like a hockey version of “My Fair Lady”.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not sure they were trying to change him that much. Seems like it was pretty standard stuff to be able to play in the NHL. No one who isn't absolutely elite at it, gets to be a one dimensional goal scorer in the NHL. And even guys like Connor who are far better natural goal scores had to learn to play defense at a certain level to be effective.

Not sure what went on there. It seemed like they wanted to turn him into a pure checker. Wouldn't mean he would not be allowed to score the odd goal. Might have been a case where they should have traded him while he still had some value. Also might have been that he just didn't have the 'right stuff'. He is not exactly flourishing in Europe now either. Seems to have lost whatever it was that he had a few years ago.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Not sure what went on there. It seemed like they wanted to turn him into a pure checker. Wouldn't mean he would not be allowed to score the odd goal. Might have been a case where they should have traded him while he still had some value. Also might have been that he just didn't have the 'right stuff'. He is not exactly flourishing in Europe now either. Seems to have lost whatever it was that he had a few years ago.

Good tools, lack of processing speed at times, significant loss of confidence, IMO.

I think they saw his size and shot and saw the version of Laine-lite that PoMo salivated about, a guy who could hound the puck and "blow guys up" in between snipes. So a Big Sak with more skill and a lethal shot -- but, arguably, less hockey sense off the hop.

FWIW, I think he had that potential, and maybe he'll find a way to recover it and make his way back in -- but then I'm a sucker for lost-cause prospects...

 

[Atoyot]

Anybody know where Chibrikov is these days? Haven't seen him in a box score in weeks.

 

[MardyBum]

Anybody know where Chibrikov is these days? Haven't seen him in a box score in weeks.

Sitting on a KHL bench somewhere probably lol.

Was playing a tournament lately apparently?



Now he's gone back into hiding

 

[Atoyot]

Sitting on a KHL bench somewhere probably lol.

Was playing a tournament lately apparently?



Now he's gone back into hiding

That could make sense, not seeing the box scores because Russia technically doesn't have a team. Glad to see he's playing, even though I know it's unlikely I had a little voice in the back of my mind worrying that he had been drafted.

 

[MardyBum]

That could make sense, not seeing the box scores because Russia technically doesn't have a team. Glad to see he's playing, even though I know it's unlikely I had a little voice in the back of my mind worrying that he had been drafted.

Hopefully he's coming over here after this season. Think his contract is up and I can't imagine he's happy being parked on the bench.

Go play top 6 in the AHL next year and maybe be in the NHL the next year when we're rebuilding/retooling

 

[voyageur]

That could make sense, not seeing the box scores because Russia technically doesn't have a team. Glad to see he's playing, even though I know it's unlikely I had a little voice in the back of my mind worrying that he had been drafted.

It's funny you say because as far as I know you have to do one year military service before you can leave Russia. Some of the NHL players have been able to bribe their way around this with forged documents, but it's probable that Russia doesn't want its young men leaving by means of hockey anymore. The recent additions to the NHL have come through guys already playing in North America, a guy like Zhilkin never has to go back as long as Putin is there. But I can't think of too many Russian players who crossed over from the KHL since the war started. Berdin went back, and that was kind of a mutual separation it seems.

I know there's a lot of younger posters on here, some of whom won't remember or know that Teemu Selanne couldn't join the Jets until he finished his military service in Finland, in the end of the Cold War days.

The Red Army back in the day was probably in part successful because anyone who wasn't good enough had the risk of being sent to Afghanistan. At least in those days the Soviet Union still played on the world stage. The isolationism since the Ukraine war started will probably result in less Russian players being able to leave, or being drafted by junior and NHL teams.

 

[ps241]

Trying to coach/develop players to play a completely different type of game only works with the type of personality that will be receptive to that, and is also capable of doing it, and clearly Vesalainen wasn't. Went from a one dimensional offensive player to a no dimensions guy who was just there.

It was the plan for years, Vincent said as much and Whileee used to talk about it back when he was around.

Not every physically big player can be Adam Lowry in the ozone.

Another problem with KVes is that he didn’t process the game fast enough offensively at the NHL level. Maybe he had lost confidence by that point but he never flashed anything the times I watched him. He had a big shot but the dude could never find a way to generate shots. I tend to overvalue our prospects and he was one of the few exceptions where I watched him and thought…….this isn’t going to happen.

 

[lanky]

Would be awesome if Chibrikov and Rashevsky both came over next season together. Add them to Lambert and Lucius and the talent depth starts looking great.

 

[GJF]

Another problem with KVes is that he didn’t process the game fast enough offensively at the NHL level. Maybe he had lost confidence by that point but he never flashed anything the times I watched him. He had a big shot but the dude could never find a way to generate shots. I tend to overvalue our prospects and he was one of the few exceptions where I watched him and thought…….this isn’t going to happen.

Out of all the higher rated Jets picks we had since drafting Mark Scheifele, there was not one comparable to how obvious it was that KV wasn't going to cut it. The closest I can think of was Lukas Sutter (#39th overall) - he wasn't even good enough to come close to a Jets uniform. I'd kind of put him in a different category.

I haven't thought of his name for years so I looked him up. Did you know he works as a NHL scout since 2019? Two years for the Blue Jackets and right now he works for the Sabres.


*edit*

So I was browsing Elite Prospects some more and stumbled upon the DEL scoring table. And I wondered: Did you guys know how many former Jets/Atlanta prospects are playing in Germany right now? It's honestly crazy

Former Winnipeg/Atlanta draft picks:
Red Bull Munich - Zach Redmond 22 GP 2 G 13 A 15 P
Eisbären Berlin - Julian Melchiori 20 GP 3 G 4 A 7 P
Fischtown Pinguins - Skyler McKenzie 21 GP 4 G 6 A 10 P
Grizzlys Wolfsburg - Spencer Machacek "C" 21 GP 9 G 6 A 15 P
Straubing Tigers - JC Lipon 20 GP 8 G 6 A 14 P

When is Nic Petan signing in the DEL? How long until Paul Postma comes over from Austria?

Interesting other players:
Kölner Haie - Landon Ferraro (son of Ray) 8 GP 0 G 2 A 2 P
Grizzlys Wolfsburg - Nolan Zajac (Travis' younger brother) GP 14 3 G 7 A 19 P
Adler Mannheim - Nigel Dawes 21 GP 7 G 5 A 12 P

Yes, Nigel Dawes, 37 years old, finally seems to be slowing down significantly.

 

[ps241]

Out of all the higher rated Jets picks we had since drafting Mark Scheifele, there was not one comparable to how obvious it was that KV wasn't going to cut it. The closest I can think of was Lukas Sutter (#39th overall) - he wasn't even good enough to come close to a Jets uniform. I'd kind of put him in a different category.

I haven't thought of his name for years so I looked him up. Did you know he works as a NHL scout since 2019? Two years for the Blue Jackets and right now he works for the Sabres.


*edit*

So I was browsing Elite Prospects some more and stumbled upon the DEL scoring table. And I wondered: Did you guys know how many former Jets/Atlanta prospects are playing in Germany right now? It's honestly crazy

Former Winnipeg/Atlanta draft picks:
Red Bull Munich - Zach Redmond 22 GP 2 G 13 A 15 P
Eisbären Berlin - Julian Melchiori 20 GP 3 G 4 A 7 P
Fischtown Pinguins - Skyler McKenzie 21 GP 4 G 6 A 10 P
Grizzlys Wolfsburg - Spencer Machacek "C" 21 GP 9 G 6 A 15 P
Straubing Tigers - JC Lipon 20 GP 8 G 6 A 14 P

When is Nic Petan signing in the DEL? How long until Paul Postma comes over from Austria?

Interesting other players:
Kölner Haie - Landon Ferraro (son of Ray) 8 GP 0 G 2 A 2 P
Grizzlys Wolfsburg - Nolan Zajac (Travis' younger brother) GP 14 3 G 7 A 19 P
Adler Mannheim - Nigel Dawes 21 GP 7 G 5 A 12 P

Yes, Nigel Dawes, 37 years old, finally seems to be slowing down significantly.

Good post

I think when players leave our org……the NHL, and the AHL, we forget they are still out there playing professionally. Sure everyone wants to make the big money in the NHL but once that ship sails I know most of these guys absolutely love their time playing in Europe.

 

[voyageur]

Would be awesome if Chibrikov and Rashevsky both came over next season together. Add them to Lambert and Lucius and the talent depth starts looking great.

I'm looking at the top 6 of the Moose next year having Mc Groarty, hopefully, with Lucius, Torgersson, Zhilkin, Lambert, then you get Kuzmin, Salomonsson added to the defense and there's some prospects to work with. Chibrikov and Rashevsky would certainly add to the talent level. Between a centre like Zhilkin, you might have something.

I was trying to do research into how many players have come over from Russia since the war, and I could only find 3 Kuzmenko, Marchenko and Askarov, all from SKA St. Petersburg. Maybe there's more?

I found this article, which discusses some of the challenges for Russians playing in the NHL this year, but near the end of it there is the case of Fedotov, who played for the team, CKSA Moscow, that Chibrikov is now a part of, so it looks like he may not be easily recruited.

How the war in Ukraine is impacting Russian players in the NHL and beyond

If the war ends I'd expect there to be a new flood of Russians who move to North America, but it's a dubious situation right now, leaving your family at home, in the middle of a war, and going to an "enemy" country. I'm actually surprised Eric O'Dell is still in Russia but maybe could help bring Rashevsky over here.