Prospect Info: Jets Prospects

[Maukkis]

how was vesalainen mismanaged? maybe they wanted gawanke to show he can play in his own zone, which he didn't... other then kovacevic majority of our prospects did get chances to play and those who showed they can play are playing

In his 71 games here, he had <10 minutes of ice time 49 times, virtually always playing with waiver wire pickups and other AHLers. They gave him nothing to work with, received - surprisingly - no production, and that was it. Was he supposed to put up top 6 numbers with 4th line ice time or what?

Your mentality is likely shared with the Jets' FO. If you set up people for failure and/or never give people a fair shot with decent minutes and good linemates, you're going to end up thinking that most guys get chances (it's easy to give someone a game or two as injuries pile up), and that the guys who can play stay up with the team (because the others failed, right?). Unfortunately for us, that mentality has resulted in a f***ing organisational mess.

 

[gojetsgo]

In his 71 games here, he had <10 minutes of ice time 49 times, virtually always playing with waiver wire pickups and other AHLers. They gave him nothing to work with, received - surprisingly - no production, and that was it. Was he supposed to put up top 6 numbers with 4th line ice time or what?

Your mentality is likely shared with the Jets' FO. If you set up people for failure and/or never give people a fair shot with decent minutes and good linemates, you're going to end up thinking that most guys get chances (it's easy to give someone a game or two as injuries pile up), and that the guys who can play stay up with the team (because the others failed, right?). Unfortunately for us, that mentality has resulted in a f***ing organisational mess.

he got games with pld and connor on at least two different instances, he didn't do anything with them..... but I guess lets just ignore that and expect him to be stapled in the top 6 until it works..

 

[Maukkis]

he got games with pld and connor on at least two different instances, he didn't do anything with them..... but I guess lets just ignore that and expect him to be stapled in the top 6 until it works..

The guy still has nightmares of playing with Toninato. I'm sure those two instances really paint the whole picture here. But if you insist on calling that a fair shake, don't let me stop you.

 

[snowkiddin]

Vesalainen was completely remoulded by the Jets to fit a specific role they wanted, which didn’t help, but I also think he didn’t have great work ethic and couldn’t read the game at an NHL level.

 

[gojetsgo]

The guy still has nightmares of playing with Toninato. I'm sure those two instances really paint the whole picture here.

so you go from "(it's easy to give someone a game or two as injuries pile up)," then when it's pointed out that he did get games with pld and connor on more then one occasions those some how don't count because he had nightmares from having to play with toni? ok...

 

[Maukkis]

so you go from "(it's easy to give someone a game or two as injuries pile up)," then when it's pointed out that he did get games with pld and connor on more then one occasions those some how don't count because he had nightmares from having to play with toni? ok...

You completely misinterpreted what I said. The fact that you think that Vesalainen got a fair shot due to playing a pair of games in the top 6 is the problem. A fair shot should look like 20-30 games, likely even more than that depending on the player. Instead, we gave him 50 games in circumstances in which nobody could produce anything, and now people deem him as a bust who got his shot and failed (which he didn't get).

You can choose to believe otherwise for as long as you want and technically be right in every case (survivorship bias at work there), but as the team promotes fewer and fewer prospects from its system and slides towards the basement in the NHL, you might want to consider other perspectives as well.

For future reference: people are going to f***ing love it when we get to dealing with Chisholm's waiver wire status. It sure would have been handy to give him his shot before he lost his waiver exemption... but hey, two games is OK, right?

 

[gojetsgo]

You completely misinterpreted what I said. The fact that you think that Vesalainen got a fair shot due to playing a pair of games in the top 6 is the problem. A fair shot should look like 20-30 games, likely even more than that depending on the player. Instead, we gave him 50 games in circumstances in which nobody could produce anything, and now people deem him as a bust who got his shot (which he didn't get).

the fact that you think prospects should be gifted 30+ games in the top 6 is a problem... I mean pretty sure everyone who watched him play didn't think he deserved a bigger role but now since he flamed out it's now the orgs fault for not playing him over guys that were clearly better then him...

 

[Flair Hay]

Kovacevic is the first, most recent to come to mind. Harkins can probably succeed in the NHL on a scoring line, but not on a checking line. Just quickly, off the top of my head.

It isn't about refusing to use them though. It is about insisting that they become different players in order to get used. Morrissey did that successfully. Others cannot. Again, I'll use Harkins as an example.

Having to change your game is just a fact of life for most prospects. Only the very best can play top six or top four. Everyone else needs to learn how to use their skillset in the way the coaches want as a part of the team.

Some guys do it quickly, most take until their mid 20's to do it, and even more never do.

Tanev and Copp brought more to our team than Vesalainen, Petan or Dano ever did and they didn't get the luxury of top six time.

 

[superdeluxe]

Lambert :/. Turnover led to goal

 

[Buffdog]

Let's say we draft 2 dmen, 4 forwards and a goalie every year

Considering there are 7, 14 and 2 spots per position on the team, does everyone realize that not every prospect we draft will make the big club? Even if they progress well in their development, we can also fill roster spots through trades and free agency

Losing guys like Gawanke and Kovy happens to every team, every year. Neither of those guys were better than what we iced last season, and there was no immediate path for them to become regulars

Most of these guys think the grass is greener in other orgs but end up like petan and postma and niku when they moved on. Sure Kovy played regular minutes but it was on a shit team with even shittier d corps.

 

[Channelcat]

Lambert :/. Turnover led to goal

I've been trying to be positive with him.....but omg it's difficult. You can see why so many scouts aren't high on him.

.....and there's another brutal turnover

 

[ps241]

Lambert :/. Turnover led to goal

Thanks for letting me know I didn’t realize the game was on tonight. Just tuned in at the lake after a day of fishing.

 

[superdeluxe]

Lamberts bad turnovers don’t usually happen to often, not sure what’s up with him today.

 

[ps241]

Nice assist by Lambert. That was a better second period by the T Birds.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Thanks for letting me know I didn’t realize the game was on tonight. Just tuned in at the lake after a day of fishing.

Where were you fishing?

 

[ps241]

Where were you fishing?

LOTW we had a pretty solid day. Eating pickerel for dinner.

T Birds take advantage of a bad goal by tender for Petes and go up by two in the 3rd. They have been dominating them for the 2nd and 3rd periods ”so far”

 

[superdeluxe]

Nice win. Got some stuff to work on. But move and continue on

 

[surixon]

Kovacevic is the first, most recent to come to mind. Harkins can probably succeed in the NHL on a scoring line, but not on a checking line. Just quickly, off the top of my head.

It isn't about refusing to use them though. It is about insisting that they become different players in order to get used. Morrissey did that successfully. Others cannot. Again, I'll use Harkins as an example.

Harkins is someone that probably could succeed on a team emphasizing offense in its bottom 6. If we bring back Name I could see him fitting well on a fourth line that is asked to chip in some scoring.

A fourth of Harkins Name and Appelton could do some secondary scoring damage.

 

[Heldig]

Lambert with a bad game but Seattle won.

 

[GJF]

I think they should have been integrating Kovy 2 years ago instead of acquiring Schmidt. Then Capo wouldn't be in the same conversation. Nothing against either Schmidt (except Schmidt's 6 mil cap hit) or Capo.

Harkins performed at a top 6 level when played with skilled linemates. He is a tweener because Jets decided he was a tweener. He passed through waivers because his record said that he was a tweener.

They have to adapt their games to the NHL level. They don't usually have to become totally different players. That has happened sometimes in the past when players had to become enforcers to make the team. And certainly a lot of bottom 6 players have changed to one degree or another. But it shouldn't be something that all non-elite players have to do.

Maybe Harkins is one of those players who belongs as a career AHL player who is just that little bit short of making it in the NHL. I always see more in him than Jets are using. We really needed someone to step in to the top 6 this year and everyone except Harkins was given a shot, and I mean everyone. I think he was the only one who had shown the potential to succeed there. JMO.

Wow, slow down. That name is already taken in hockey

Seriously confused me for a second.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

and that would only last for a game or two then it faded, he got plenty of opportunities to play, it's not on the jets it's on him

It lasted as long as he was played with skilled players - which was only for a game or two at any one time. Then he would be back on the checking line and trying to do it all himself.

 

[gojetsgo]

It lasted as long as he was played with skilled players - which was only for a game or two at any one time. Then he would be back on the checking line and trying to do it all himself.

he was taken off the line because his game fell off, he's had plenty of chances to prove he belongs and he can never do it for more then a game or two.. like some people around here just expect prospects to be handed everything, they must play a certain game in the top 6 or else they aren't given real chances... like when is it on the prospect to take advantage of their opportunities, he was waived twice last year, nobody wanted him for free..

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Having to change your game is just a fact of life for most prospects. Only the very best can play top six or top four. Everyone else needs to learn how to use their skillset in the way the coaches want as a part of the team.

Some guys do it quickly, most take until their mid 20's to do it, and even more never do.

Tanev and Copp brought more to our team than Vesalainen, Petan or Dano ever did and they didn't get the luxury of top six time.

True. But it does seem that some players have skills that go unappreciated. Some players are required to change too much.

I'm not suggesting that a player like Connor should be bumped to the 3rd line and made to check in order to open space for a player like Harkins to be given a better opportunity.

So .... when a Harkins is sent to the AHL, play him on the 3rd/4th line there. Tell him he is there to learn how to play on a checking line because that is what he will have to do to stick in the NHL. Instead they play him in the top 6 and he is the offensive leader on the Moose. He would have lead the team in scoring by about 25 pts if he had been there the whole season. But has he learned to be any better on a checking 3rd line?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wow, slow down. That name is already taken in hockey

Seriously confused me for a second.

We have been using it here, off and on, because Kovacevic is a lot of keystrokes.

 

[Atoyot]

True. But it does seem that some players have skills that go unappreciated. Some players are required to change too much.

I'm not suggesting that a player like Connor should be bumped to the 3rd line and made to check in order to open space for a player like Harkins to be given a better opportunity.

So .... when a Harkins is sent to the AHL, play him on the 3rd/4th line there. Tell him he is there to learn how to play on a checking line because that is what he will have to do to stick in the NHL. Instead they play him in the top 6 and he is the offensive leader on the Moose. He would have lead the team in scoring by about 25 pts if he had been there the whole season. But has he learned to be any better on a checking 3rd line?

He was on the 3rd checking line and it was the best line we had. It was the line that partly had Lowry playing at a 60 point pace more than a third of the way into the season. Instead Harkins goes down and Barron gets put on the 4th line and Lowry finishes the season with 15 points in his final 53 games.