Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XIII)

[Snot Rocket]

That's pretty ignorant. I'm not arguing that certain prospects need
more time in juniors, because some of them do...others do not. If the circumstances were different...I could very well agree with you. I don't believe the mantra that every single prospect needs excess seasoning time.

Some do, others don't. You seem to believe that all do, and that is mistaken.

In this case...Scheifele should not have been sent back down based on what the organization had to say about him. Every other aspect of his game was ready, they just didnt think he was strong enough...something can be done on Winnipeg. Playing in a tougher league would do loads for this level of development. It's human nature to try elevate your game when your facing tougher odds.

Every reason you have stated to me about how Scheifele is not ready does not apply. He needed work on his strength...that's it.

The fact also remains that he has to be given a real opportunity to show this club that he has what it takes. You don't give a projected top six fwd energy minutes. It makes no sense. They should have been giving him some top six time, some time on the third line, some pp time and some PK time.

I would guess the reasoning for sending him back down was multifold.

1. To learn how to finish - Polishing his game if you will
2. To have him on a deep run into the playoffs - Again, polishing his game and learning to win.
3. To get the Jets squared away - as in attitude change, mental game and personnel change. New players will be abound this fall, perhaps some UFA's and get our younger team to be a little more seasoned themselves.

I agree that playing to tougher opponents elevates ones game, but learning to do all the little things right first and have that become second nature will be the catalyst for success in the bigs.

You need to learn how to dominate, and then you just need to learn to bring the speed up.

Strength: I assume that he will be working his rear end off with the Jets in the offseason and I would not be surprised to see him check in @ about the 205-210lbs range. He is currently sitting @ 192lbs and 6'3.

I figure with his broad shoulders he should top out @ 225 lbs for effective weight, though I would like to see him @ 230'ish as he is fast, but not the fastest and if he can maintain his speed the weight will be a boon to his game.

I too wish he would have gotten a little more of a chance on the ice this year, and I am sure he would have had it not been a bad case of seasonus interuptus. A proper training camp with exhibition games would have gone a long way to properly showcase his talent.

Though I am not sure that he would have been the difference maker this year, but I am guessing he will be this next year if his development continues.

My 2 cents anyway.

 

[jetkarma*]

IMO he never gets close to 230 , I think he is a 205 body at his heaviest. No issue though , that would be thick enough .

 

[Flair Hay]

Good post Snotty, I like all of what you said there.

 

[surixon]

I would guess the reasoning for sending him back down was multifold.

1. To learn how to finish - Polishing his game if you will
2. To have him on a deep run into the playoffs - Again, polishing his game and learning to win.
3. To get the Jets squared away - as in attitude change, mental game and personnel change. New players will be abound this fall, perhaps some UFA's and get our younger team to be a little more seasoned themselves.

I agree that playing to tougher opponents elevates ones game, but learning to do all the little things right first and have that become second nature will be the catalyst for success in the bigs.

You need to learn how to dominate, and then you just need to learn to bring the speed up.

Strength: I assume that he will be working his rear end off with the Jets in the offseason and I would not be surprised to see him check in @ about the 205-210lbs range. He is currently sitting @ 192lbs and 6'3.

I figure with his broad shoulders he should top out @ 225 lbs for effective weight, though I would like to see him @ 230'ish as he is fast, but not the fastest and if he can maintain his speed the weight will be a boon to his game.

I too wish he would have gotten a little more of a chance on the ice this year, and I am sure he would have had it not been a bad case of seasonus interuptus. A proper training camp with exhibition games would have gone a long way to properly showcase his talent.

Though I am not sure that he would have been the difference maker this year, but I am guessing he will be this next year if his development continues.

My 2 cents anyway.

Good post!

My main issue is that I don't see this run doing that much to round out his game. Or maybe i should say its not going to do as much as him being challenged by playing against pros.

Its too easy for him right now, he's pretty much been able to do what he wants on the ice and its been like this since before he got called up. I am happy that he has a good head on his shoulder because a number of talented players would start to develop bad habits. Its too bad that he couldnt go to the AHL as that would have been a far better option for him.

I do agree with your point about the dressing room and would like to see some of the deadwood cleaned out and some more character brought in.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Good post!

My main issue is that I don't see this run doing that much to round out his game. Or maybe i should say its not going to do as much as him being challenged by playing against pros.

Its too easy for him right now, he's pretty much been able to do what he wants on the ice and its been like this since before he got called up. I am happy that he has a good head on his shoulder because a number of talented players would start to develop bad habits. Its too bad that he couldnt go to the AHL as that would have been a far better option for him.

I do agree with your point about the dressing room and would like to see some of the deadwood cleaned out and some more character brought in.

The bolded is my main concern going into next year. It looks like we may have an influx of young, talented athletes next year. I'd like to ensure that the 'coasters' have been purged before they get there. We've had two (sort of) seasons to decide who has character and who doesn't IMO.

 

[Snot Rocket]

IMO he never gets close to 230 , I think he is a 205 body at his heaviest. No issue though , that would be thick enough .

Thinking: Man Weight - late 20's.

Just judging weight based off of me.

I was 6'6 (shrunk a little now) @ 18/19, played soccer in the summer, skateboard, freestyle bmx and pickup games of hockey in the winter and street hockey year round. Little basketball too...was 224lbs then, and sure did not look it.

I see Mark's broad shoulders his frame looks like it might be able to carry more muscle mass as he gets older.

 

[Sweech]

Good post!

My main issue is that I don't see this run doing that much to round out his game. Or maybe i should say its not going to do as much as him being challenged by playing against pros.

Its too easy for him right now, he's pretty much been able to do what he wants on the ice and its been like this since before he got called up. I am happy that he has a good head on his shoulder because a number of talented players would start to develop bad habits. Its too bad that he couldnt go to the AHL as that would have been a far better option for him.

I do agree with your point about the dressing room and would like to see some of the deadwood cleaned out and some more character brought in.

I'm pleased with Scheifele this season. He's been called on to become a goal scoring threat, not just a playmaker, for his team and he's answered the bell. I really want to see Barrie enter the memorial cup, but it's going to be difficult sledding the next two rounds, but that's sort of the point. He'll be really challenged to carry his team and we'll see how he does.

I don't in any way think Scheifele's development was hurt by sending him down. This is possibly the worst season to keep a prospect up. Very few rest days and almost no days of practice don't help foster a good learning environment for a prospect. Not to mention that people are clamoring for Scheifele to get top 6 time and with such short rest times between games I'd fear Scheifele wouldn't last through the wear and tear as someone who just isn't used to it. We've already seen numerous rookies on other teams go through injuries this season. Barrie really was the best route for him to go this season.

 

[surixon]

I'm pleased with Scheifele this season. He's been called on to become a goal scoring threat, not just a playmaker, for his team and he's answered the bell. I really want to see Barrie enter the memorial cup, but it's going to be difficult sledding the next two rounds, but that's sort of the point. He'll be really challenged to carry his team and we'll see how he does.

I don't in any way think Scheifele's development was hurt by sending him down. This is possibly the worst season to keep a prospect up. Very few rest days and almost no days of practice don't help foster a good learning environment for a prospect. Not to mention that people are clamoring for Scheifele to get top 6 time and with such short rest times between games I'd fear Scheifele wouldn't last through the wear and tear as someone who just isn't used to it. We've already seen numerous rookies on other teams go through injuries this season. Barrie really was the best route for him to go this season.

I don't think his development has been hurt any, but I think he would have been better off in the AHL after his stint with the Jets, but that's kind of a moot point as he wasn't eligible to go lol. Any wase I'm hoping for an MVP type playoffs for him and seems to be off to a great start in that regard.

 

[Sweech]

I don't think his development has been hurt any, but I think he would have been better off in the AHL after his stint with the Jets, but that's kind of a moot point as he wasn't eligible to go lol. Any wase I'm hoping for an MVP type playoffs for him and seems to be off to a great start in that regard.

I agree, I think the AHL would have been better play wise. Except the same locker room concerns arise, but moreso in the AHL. Apparently their was a lot of cancerous floating play going down there on the rock and I'm not sure it would have been the best place for the Scheif to be.

 

[TCsmyth]

Good post!

My main issue is that I don't see this run doing that much to round out his game. Or maybe i should say its not going to do as much as him being challenged by playing against pros.

Its too easy for him right now, he's pretty much been able to do what he wants on the ice and its been like this since before he got called up. I am happy that he has a good head on his shoulder because a number of talented players would start to develop bad habits. Its too bad that he couldnt go to the AHL as that would have been a far better option for him.

I do agree with your point about the dressing room and would like to see some of the deadwood cleaned out and some more character brought in.

I like your post, and hear what you are saying. However, I think that a deep playoff run will give him lots of challenge - if I remember last year, the other teams absolutely tried to murder him in the playoffs. I can only assume they are keying on him even more this year, so that makes his production even more impressive in my eyes.

I have to admit I have not seen any of the games this playoff, so I am not sure whether he is getting the same physical beating he took last year...can anyone comment on that?

 

[garret9]

I like your post, and hear what you are saying. However, I think that a deep playoff run will give him lots of challenge - if I remember last year, the other teams absolutely tried to murder him in the playoffs. I can only assume they are keying on him even more this year, so that makes his production even more impressive in my eyes.

I have to admit I have not seen any of the games this playoff, so I am not sure whether he is getting the same physical beating he took last year...can anyone comment on that?

They are gunning for him pretty hard right now.
Oshawa has knocked him off his feet multiple times... mostly with hits from behind that have slid.

 

[Sweech]

I like your post, and hear what you are saying. However, I think that a deep playoff run will give him lots of challenge - if I remember last year, the other teams absolutely tried to murder him in the playoffs. I can only assume they are keying on him even more this year, so that makes his production even more impressive in my eyes.

I have to admit I have not seen any of the games this playoff, so I am not sure whether he is getting the same physical beating he took last year...can anyone comment on that?

It's one of the reasons that Anthony Camara is so good for Scheifele. Plus Scheif has shown much more of a spine this year.

 

[ps241]

They are gunning for him pretty hard right now.
Oshawa has knocked him off his feet multiple times... mostly with hits from behind that have slid.

It's one of the reasons that Anthony Camara is so good for Scheifele. Plus Scheif has shown much more of a spine this year.

Yes and it's important to remember that really things are just heating up........Belleville and London (if that is how it progresses) will be extremely tough tests over the next 3 to 4 weeks. That could conceivably be 14 games of development against teams that are equal or better than Barrie with most of the weight (pressure) falling on Mark's shoulders. I realize Mark has had his way in the OHL up to this point this year but this is big step up and a huge stretch for his development and growth against high quality teams every night.

I feel people are selling the OHL playoff wars a bit short.

 

[surixon]

I'm pleased with Scheifele this season. He's been called on to become a goal scoring threat, not just a playmaker, for his team and he's answered the bell. I really want to see Barrie enter the memorial cup, but it's going to be difficult sledding the next two rounds, but that's sort of the point. He'll be really challenged to carry his team and we'll see how he does.

I don't in any way think Scheifele's development was hurt by sending him down. This is possibly the worst season to keep a prospect up. Very few rest days and almost no days of practice don't help foster a good learning environment for a prospect. Not to mention that people are clamoring for Scheifele to get top 6 time and with such short rest times between games I'd fear Scheifele wouldn't last through the wear and tear as someone who just isn't used to it. We've already seen numerous rookies on other teams go through injuries this season. Barrie really was the best route for him to go this season.

I don't think his development has been hurt any, but I think he would have been better off in the AHL after his stint with the Jets, but that's kind of a moot point as he wasn't eligible to go lol. Any wase I'm hoping for an MVP type playoffs for him and seems to be off to a great start in that regard.

 

[StronGeer]

Kind of OT, but this would be me (and many on this board, I`d say) if Kane, Bogo, Trouba or Scheifele got traded in the near future

 

[Bob E]

Yes and it's important to remember that really things are just heating up........Belleville and London (if that is how it progresses) will be extremely tough tests over the next 3 to 4 weeks. That could conceivably be 14 games of development against teams that are equal or better than Barrie with most of the weight (pressure) falling on Mark's shoulders. I realize Mark has had his way in the OHL up to this point this year but this is big step up and a huge stretch for his development and growth against high quality teams every night.

I feel people are selling the OHL playoff wars a bit short.

Completely agree, PS.

And if scheifele and the Colts can go deep in the playoffs, that can only help him. Anytime you can experience tough, pressure packed games, it prepares you a little when you face it later in the NHL. That's why GM's are fine (for most part unless they are instrumental to the "big club's" fortunes) with freeing up young players for the WJCs.

The fact he's excelling so far is fantastic.

 

[sully1410]

Kind of OT, but this would be me (and many on this board, I`d say) if Kane, Bogo, Trouba or Scheifele got traded in the near future

Thats how we all were when Selanne was traded.

 

[Bob E]

Not saying he will or should, but if Buff is traded at the draft, what would the return need to be (from Jets perspective)?

Personally I think it would be likely one of the best opportunities to get player(s) and picks or prospects.

If the Jets traded with Philly and grabbed a 1st (2013), Grossmann (or Coburn), Read and maybe Laughton - for Buff and 2nd rd pick would that work?

Grossmann ($3.5 mill cap hit) and Coburn ($4.5) are both signed for a few years. Read is a UFA after next year and looking for a raise. Laughton is a feisty, future 3rd line C - likely not much more. And 1st rd pick may be Top 10-12, and could be someone like Shinkaruk.

Would feel better if Read was under contract longer, but does that return sound reasonable?

 

[allan5oh]

If by read you mean Simmonds then yes.

 

[KingBogo]

Kind of OT, but this would be me (and many on this board, I`d say) if Kane, Bogo, Trouba or Scheifele got traded in the near future

I think you are pretty safe. It's hard to preach building through the draft if you start dealing away your top picks (age 19-22) when they are still in the early stages of their development. Especially when they are already key contributors or have demonstrated huge potential.

 

[Duke749]

Kind of OT, but this would be me (and many on this board, I`d say) if Kane, Bogo, Trouba or Scheifele got traded in the near future

Just hockey? No, it's much more then that. It's LIFE!

 

[Bob E]

If by read you mean Simmonds then yes.

Ya, would be nice. Thinking that's a deal breaker for the Flyers. Simmonds or Voracek. If they aren't included, is that a deal breaker for Jets?

Read had 24 goals last year and has 9 so far and has been injured a bit. He looks like a young 25+ goal guy, too. Bit small, but great shot.

I like Grossmann or Coburn as that shutdown LHD - paired with Bogo - or as a veteran guy for Trouba. Both have term on their contracts, but also limited No Trade deals.

 

[Duke749]

I would say Read is of a similar mold to Little on the wing. Also, not old but he's entering his prime as of right now at 26 so not really young but a good age if we're bringing someone in to help.

 

[puck stoppa]

IMO he never gets close to 230 , I think he is a 205 body at his heaviest. No issue though , that would be thick enough .

Ya, he will never get to 230. He will be playing at 200-205 range at the most.

 

[Bob E]

I would say Read is of a similar mold to Little on the wing. Also, not old but he's entering his prime as of right now at 26 so not really young but a good age if we're bringing someone in to help.

I agree, Duke.


My thought is, Jets are in desperate need of some quality depth. If they can turn Buff and a pick into 4 players, assuming the 1st rd pick (perhaps a guy like Shinkaruk) and Laughton pan out.

Jets still have their 1st this year, let's assume they pick Monahan.

Next year, line-up of:

LLW
Kane/Burmi (or Scheifele ??)/Read
Tangradi/Jokinen/Peluso
Wright/Slater/Thorbs

Enstrom/Bogo
Grossmann/Trouba (or Postma)
Stuart/Redmond

Pavs


In 2 yrs:

Kane/Scheifele/Wheeler
Ladd/Little/Read (if resigned)
Lowry/Monahan/Shinkaruk (every playoff team has a 'youth-line' that rocks)
Wright/Slater/Peluso


If not sooner, Laughton takes Slater's spot when his contract expires. Eventually, he moves up to 3rd line physical checking role with Lowry and maybe Kosmachuck.

If Read doesn't resign, Little moves to RW. Top 6 centers would be Scheifele and Burmi.

Edit: Shinkaruk and Monahan eventually take on Top 6 roles, likely replacing and upgrading Burmi and Little.