Post-Game Talk: Jets Crowned 3-2

[Kaako Kappo]

Because Wheeler is not the problem with the PP.

I said "aside from some other things". A lot of issues with the PP are being stated in this discussion and a lot of suggestions for improvements. I am suggesting one simple change that I think would help. The pass from the half wall to the slot is a lot shorter than the one to the far left side. Laine is good at getting the shot off in tight quarters. I'm not proposing it as a complete fix for all the issues. It might be one that Maurice would actually do though.

I'd like to see Ehlers in Connor's spot too. That is one that Maurice is unlikely to do.

Currently he is the problem, and if you can't see it then I don't know what to say. I hope he gets back to his old self.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Currently he is the problem, and if you can't see it then I don't know what to say. I hope he gets back to his old self.

I don't think it is Wheeler so much as the predictable, static PP. The rest of the league figured out cutting off his passing lanes to Laine and Scheifele. Our PP1 has sucked ever since. It hasn't been changed in any significant way since. I don't think that is Wheeler's fault but he is not going to get back to his old self until our PP responds to the changes the opposing teams have made.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yah I see the same things that everyone else does. Sure I'm concerned we didn't react well to LA's game...we were too slow.

And yes CLL was not very good at times last year. But that was mostly on Laine.
A 20-year-old hockey player reacting too slowly out there? It happens.

This year you can see the difference in Laine's hustle and quicker reaction times. Potentially, this could be the best 2nd line in hockey.

And ESW you say? It's funny how one minute people are complaining that Ehlers should get more time out there and then complain the next minute when Ehlers is placed on the first line.

Does anyone remember a couple of years ago when Maurice first ran with ESW for a while and they were producing points near the top of all lines? Anyone?

So....when everyone is firing on all cylinders, these two lines could or should be the best 1st line in hockey and the best 2nd line! Haters bring it on!

Let's leave our defensemen out of this for now okay?

No one is complaining about Ehlers on the first line. The complaint is that Wheeler is back on the first line.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't think it is Wheeler so much as the predictable, static PP. The rest of the league figured out cutting off his passing lanes to Laine and Scheifele. Our PP1 has sucked ever since. It hasn't been changed in any significant way since. I don't think that is Wheeler's fault but he is not going to get back to his old self until our PP responds to the changes the opposing teams have made.

Wheeler being blamed for the PP ills is a perfect example of observer bias. He's had his foibles on the PP, along with all of them (maybe hit the net occasionally Patty), but the issue with the PP is how completely pedestrian it is, and that's not on Wheeler. There is next to no rotation, puck movement is slow and predictable, both Connor and Scheifele are like immovable statues in their spots the majority of the time, we have no threat from the point and nobody can reliably gain entry to the zone.

But yeah, f*** Wheeler.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Pathetic really is the word for the strategy at that point.... you have so many options for gaining the zone and you leave your best one (Ehlers) on the bench. I just don't understand???

Most times I assume that Maurice simply knows more than I do, as he should, but sometimes it absolutely amazes me, some of the decisions he makes.

Watch how we attempt to gain the zone with a man (or two) advantage as compared to teams successful at it. We slowly meander up the ice and let the other team get set, other teams are going full speed across our blue line. Our second PP line is FAR better at gaining the zone simply because they come in with speed.

Put Ehlers on PP1 in place of Connor or even Wheeler, and we will have much more success. Then leave them out there for two minutes if need be. Other teams do that a lot.

Even I know that

I have no doubt that Maurice knows a lot more than either of us. The problem is how he is using, or not using, that wealth of knowledge and experience.

He appears to have a set of preconceived ideas of how everyone should play. Not all players fit with his preconceived ideas, but he stubbornly sticks to them.

That is probably an unfair oversimplification of what goes on in his head. But it certainly describes the appearance - and the result.

The difference in how he uses - and presumably values - Connor and Ehlers is very apparent. Ehlers is sharply more effective in many ways and yet he keeps giving Connor the top role. Just incredible, yet it goes on and on.

 

[jetsforever]

I have no doubt that Maurice knows a lot more than either of us. The problem is how he is using, or not using, that wealth of knowledge and experience.

He appears to have a set of preconceived ideas of how everyone should play. Not all players fit with his preconceived ideas, but he stubbornly sticks to them.

That is probably an unfair oversimplification of what goes on in his head. But it certainly describes the appearance - and the result.

The difference in how he uses - and presumably values - Connor and Ehlers is very apparent. Ehlers is sharply more effective in many ways and yet he keeps giving Connor the top role. Just incredible, yet it goes on and on.

Yeah it's strange how Maurice always gives Connor the best opportunities
Don't get me wrong, Connor is great, but I bet Ehlers would be as good or better with the same opportunities

 

[Howard Chuck]

How so?

Laine and Little haven't worked well in the two years it was together, whereas we may have two great lines with LSE and CLW.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah it's strange how Maurice always gives Connor the best opportunities
Don't get me wrong, Connor is great, but I bet Ehlers would be as good or better with the same opportunities

Yes, Connor is great. But I don't see any bet that Ehlers would be better on the 1st line and 1st PP. A bet implies doubt. I think we have seen it proven on the 1st line in several different iterations. He would improve PP1 just with his zone entries. He would probably be better behind the net too, although KC does pretty well retaining possession there. But he doesn't do much else so something different (Ehlers) would probably be an improvement there too. Some movement and creativity from back there might lead to more movement by the PK and open something up elsewhere.

I think Connor's greatest strength is in tight quarters in front of the net. He can get the puck in the net when it doesn't look to be possible. But that isn't where he is playing on the PP. He is almost always staying behind the net. He does a good job there retrieving pucks but it is not leading to many goals.

 

[Robinson2187]

Not if you have time and space to hold onto the puck.
Most of what I'm referring to is the d-man dumping the puck into the neutral zone when not being pressured or forcing a long pass into coverage to the new forward coming out when a much safer option is available that could maintain possession for the guys who are supposed to score for us.

There's certainly lots of times that pucks need to be dumped but there's also time to value possession when you have it and space and support to keep it.

This. Throughout the whole 17-18 season, weren't the Jets possession monsters? That started to change last year so I don't think we can blame the young d-core for it this year. I could see our possession numbers dropping off a bit with inexperienced Dmen but this team still has the horses to be a very good possession team and I think it's key to their success.

Mo needs to go.

 

[Gm0ney]

This. Throughout the whole 17-18 season, weren't the Jets possession monsters? That started to change last year so I don't think we can blame the young d-core for it this year. I could see our possession numbers dropping off a bit with inexperienced Dmen but this team still has the horses to be a very good possession team and I think it's key to their success.

Mo needs to go.

Yes, last year the team was buoyed by special teams, even though their 5v5 was pretty lackluster. This year 5v5 has looked even worse...and the powerplay hasn't been clicking enough to overcome it. With the exception of the 4-1 win over Pittsburgh, the Jets wins have come at the expense of NJD, MIN, CHI and EDM...

 

[Howard Chuck]

Yes, last year the team was buoyed by special teams, even though their 5v5 was pretty lackluster. This year 5v5 has looked even worse...and the powerplay hasn't been clicking enough to overcome it. With the exception of the 4-1 win over Pittsburgh, the Jets wins have come at the expense of NJD, MIN, CHI and EDM...

... and our PP was so good in the first half of last year that everyone forgets that it's been horrible since about January of last season. We really haven't been good at all since last January.

 

[LowLefty]

Not if you have time and space to hold onto the puck.
Most of what I'm referring to is the d-man dumping the puck into the neutral zone when not being pressured or forcing a long pass into coverage to the new forward coming out when a much safer option is available that could maintain possession for the guys who are supposed to score for us.

There's certainly lots of times that pucks need to be dumped but there's also time to value possession when you have it and space and support to keep it.

That's a big "if" -
Usually there is a ton of pressure in the neutral zone and if you are changing up a tired crew, you dump.
But it sounds like you are not referring to dumping into the O zone on a change - this sounds like exiting your own zone.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

... and our PP was so good in the first half of last year that everyone forgets that it's been horrible since about January of last season. We really haven't been good at all since last January.

And the excellent coaching staff has not reacted.

 

[Ducky10]

And the excellent coaching staff has not reacted.

Nope and neither have the players...…..oops, I mean robots.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Nope and neither have the players...…..oops, I mean robots.

If they players can voice their opinion and say something, then why haven't they? And if they have, then why hasn't there been a change? Something has to give, you know.

At least the #2 PP has been decent. I checked and from 01.01.2019 to this day the Winnipeg Jets have had 167 PP opportunities and during that time Laine, Wheeler, Scheifele and Connor have combined for 20 power play goals.

 

[Ducky10]

If they players can voice their opinion and say something, then why haven't they? And if they have, then why hasn't there been a change? Something has to give, you know.

At least the #2 PP has been decent. I checked and from 01.01.2019 to this day the Winnipeg Jets have had 167 PP opportunities and during that time Laine, Wheeler, Scheifele and Connor have combined for 20 power play goals.

Voice their opinion? Why not just execute better? Coaches definitely are responsible for creating direction and strategy but things don’t happen in a vacuum. These are pro hockey players, create something for yourself.

Why does PP2 seem to be listening? Or maybe they’re just making things happen. I think Ehlers has lot to do with that.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Voice their opinion? Why not just execute better? Coaches definitely are responsible for creating direction and strategy but things don’t happen in a vacuum. These are pro hockey players, create something for yourself.

Why does PP2 seem to be listening? Or maybe they’re just making things happen. I think Ehlers has lot to do with that.

Why does Wheeler get thrown into the second line in the middle of the game? Why is the first line's left wing changed every 5 or so games? Why don't the players just execute better? Why change anything at all, the players just need to execute better.

They tried swapping Laine & Wheeler for one game on the PP and it looked great. Laine had three great looks in one PP. Then that was never seen again. Why?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Voice their opinion? Why not just execute better? Coaches definitely are responsible for creating direction and strategy but things don’t happen in a vacuum. These are pro hockey players, create something for yourself.

Why does PP2 seem to be listening? Or maybe they’re just making things happen. I think Ehlers has lot to do with that.

So as far as us fans go, who just want to see results, what is the answer?

How do you get the players to play to their potential? Are they not following coaches orders, or is the coach not coaching effectively? Are systems not being implemented? Is the 'identity' not suitable for the roster?

The play is very often just lackluster. Do we just have lazy players? I don't believe that any of them would have made it this far if that was the case.

My personal opinion is that they've tuned out the coach. Maybe not in a direct way, but they aren't on the same page.

 

[Ducky10]

So as far as us fans go, who just want to see results, what is the answer?

How do you get the players to play to their potential? Are they not following coaches orders, or is the coach not coaching effectively? Are systems not being implemented? Is the 'identity' not suitable for the roster?

The play is very often just lackluster. Do we just have lazy players? I don't believe that any of them would have made it this far if that was the case.

My personal opinion is that they've tuned out the coach. Maybe not in a direct way, but they aren't on the same page.

Well I was responding to something involving the PP. My answer was in that context, yes the coaches and players share in its failings.

 

[Ducky10]

Why does Wheeler get thrown into the second line in the middle of the game? Why is the first line's left wing changed every 5 or so games? Why don't the players just execute better? Why change anything at all, the players just need to execute better.

They tried swapping Laine & Wheeler for one game on the PP and it looked great. Laine had three great looks in one PP. Then that was never seen again. Why?

We were talking about the PP, my answer had to do with that. I think I stated the coaching bears some responsibility, just not all of it. Players executing and creating opportunities play a crucial role no matter what the scheme. Too many guys have been lacking so far. Oh, and they’ve been pretty damn unlucky at times as well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Voice their opinion? Why not just execute better? Coaches definitely are responsible for creating direction and strategy but things don’t happen in a vacuum. These are pro hockey players, create something for yourself.

Why does PP2 seem to be listening? Or maybe they’re just making things happen. I think Ehlers has lot to do with that.

Perreault also helps PP2.

 

[The Big M]

No one is complaining about Ehlers on the first line. The complaint is that Wheeler is back on the first line.

My point is that ESW is a terrific option for a line no matter how much people want to blame Wheeler for Jets troubles.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

My point is that ESW is a terrific option for a line no matter how much people want to blame Wheeler for Jets troubles.

Fair enough.

But I think a lot of the immediate angst comes from having seen ESL and CLW for a short time last game and so quickly back to having Wheeler with Scheifele on the 1st line. The top 6 looked very good for the short time Wheeler was with Little.

Looks like Mau was just making some kind of a statement and didn't actually watch the result.

There is no guarantee the improvement would have lasted but we will never find out if it is abandoned after a few shifts.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I suspect it is the weight of being the #1 Dman on a team that doesn't even have a #2. Trying to do too much.

Or it's the weight lifted by having a long term contract in his pocket now and not trying to do enough. I'm starting to think JoMo needs Sip's undivided attention.

#laurelresting

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Or it's the weight lifted by having a long term contract in his pocket now and not trying to do enough. I'm starting to think JoMo needs Sip's undivided attention.

#laurelresting

I don't think so. He may also be less than 100% healthy, along with carrying the weight of the team, revolving door of partners, weak partners and inconsistent support from the F's.

I don't think Morrissey is the #laurelresting type. JMO.

That said, a good dose of Sip vitriol couldn't hurt.