Post-Game Talk: Jets crown a new Vezina King 4-0 loss

[DRW204]

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@FFHockey -- I really wish I could be as sold on Laine as you are, but I get a bad gut feeling about him, and his potential. I think he'll be a great goal scorer --"hopefully"-- but the rest of his game --I'm not sold. I hope I'm wrong for the Jet's sake.

his goal scoring hasn't even been great since his historic November 2018. I was told if he is away from Little he'd be a Rocket Winner, consistent 5v5 scorer + a whole bunch of other hyperbole. All his stats are propped up from a great 1st 5 games. He's 30% in the 5v5 GF share since then

 

[GNP]

Then you must have very serious reservations about every other player on the team who isn't playing as well as Laine is.

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I don't have serious reservations about another high paid player -- but I did with Helle, and he proved me wrong, and I'm glad he did. Helle is looking like a Vezina contender again this year.

I hope Laine does the same, and comes into his own, and he may, it's just that to me he looks quite awkward when he skates, and very inconsistent.

With players like Scheif, Wheeler, Little, Ehlers and Connor --you pretty much know what your going to get -- but with Laine --it's very "perplexing." ( very inconsistent) I'd love to say I'm totally wrong on him, and have him develop into a star player for the Jets.

Laine is a very tough player to gauge ?

Because some GM's would value him so highly, I think we could get a great return for him, and address our weak spots, and that's on defense.

If you could get Barzal and a good defenseman from the Islanders for Laine -"you start the car up `and drive Laine to the airport -`fast``

We don't really need help scoring --we have lot's of good scorers on this team.

 

[Gm0ney]

When maurice had skill 2 years ago through out the line up we were tops in the league in all of these. Somewhat the same pp but cant blame maurice for laine forgetting how to score on pp with the same looks he had in years past. And when you start coaching at 29 you will accumulate lots of wins and losses as apposed to 40 like most new coaches n the league. This is on Chevy on his insistence that we were good enough at the beginning of the year.

I guess if Maurice doesn't have a super-deep optimal lineup he's not to blame? Rubbish. Coaches have an expiry date and his passed last season.

 

[GNP]

Fair enough, GNP. My overarching concern is that at this point in (Jets) history, returns on such a trade stands a good chance of not meeting expectations, especially with this team on the bubble, such as it is. IMHO the suggestion of a trade involving one of our best young players with enormous potential smacks of desperation.

It would be an interesting exercise to assess the results of the NHL's biggest trades in detail, addressed from both sides.

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Really good post here --and it would be interesting to look at other big trades and how they worked out. I know the Eric Lindros trade is one that would be interesting to talk about, as well as some others.

If I owned the Jets or was the GM - I'd have a very open mind on trading Laine-- "but only" for proven players in return. ( a defenseman for sure)

I know many posters would not share my sentiment on Laine, and it may be unpopular -- but I really think it's worth keeping an open mind about --if the right players came along.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Shouldn't an offensive system that relies on the point shot also rely on bodies in front screening the goalie and looking for tip-ins/deflections?

Yes. But many of our forwards seem to prefer a perimeter game because it doesn't require you to get challenged physically by often large defensemen trying to clear out opposing team's forwards from around the net - in other words it doesn't hurt. I get the impression that our first and second line guys don't like to have to wage that battle. Most teams make forwards pay a price for being in and around their keeper, especially right in front of the net. Winnipeg used to do that too. We don't really do that much anymore. Between the dots around Helle is a very welcoming place. There might be a few sticks waived in your direction to create a bit of a nuisance, but other than that make yourself at home.

 

[Duke749]

Yes. But many of our forwards seem to prefer a perimeter game because it doesn't require you to get challenged physically by often large defensemen trying to clear out opposing team's forwards from around the net - in other words it doesn't hurt. I get the impression that our first and second line guys don't like to have to wage that battle. Most teams make forwards pay a price for being in and around their keeper, especially right in front of the net. Winnipeg used to do that too. We don't really do that much anymore. Between the dots around Helle is a very welcoming place. There might be a few sticks waived in your direction to create a bit of a nuisance, but other than that make yourself at home.

This is vastly overstated. Our defensemen just aren’t good.

 

[The Blue Baron]

Is this about the 50th time the Jerts let a backup of a back up beat us since return of 2.0?

 

[Duke749]

Is this about the 50th time the Jerts let a backup of a back up beat us since return of 2.0?

Yes

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

This is vastly overstated. Our defensemen just aren’t good.

On three of the goals against, there was not much more than stick waiving at the Avalanche player in front of the net. The other goal, they couldn't waive a stick at MacKinnon in front of Helle because he was too fast, but we did waive a stick at him as he blew past our D in the neutral zone so at least we tried. Maybe the stick waiving is because of how bad our D is, but it is still not much more than stick waiving in and around the goal when it matters.

Well to be fair, I guess you could add knee skating to the stick waiving on the first goal against.

 

[Jets 31]

I wonder if the Jets try and get the pretty goals too much at home ? I'll be watching to see if they get to the front of the net tomorrow night in Florida more . Not an excuse , just wondering a little .

 

[tbcwpg]

On three of the goals against, there was not much more than stick waiving at the Avalanche player in front of the net. The other goal, they couldn't waive a stick at MacKinnon in front of Helle because he was too fast, but we did waive a stick at him as he blew past our D in the neutral zone so at least we tried. Maybe the stick waiving is because of how bad our D is, but it is still not much more than stick waiving in and around the goal when it matters.

Well to be fair, I guess you could add knee skating to the stick waiving on the first goal against.

There's stick waiving, yes, but the D just aren't very good at keeping the middle clear. They're positionally challenged, prone to giveaways, slow. They give up the zone too easily - though that is partially because they aren't getting good help from some of the forwards.

 

[rkp]

his goal scoring hasn't even been great since his historic November 2018. I was told if he is away from Little he'd be a Rocket Winner, consistent 5v5 scorer + a whole bunch of other hyperbole. All his stats are propped up from a great 1st 5 games. He's 30% in the 5v5 GF share since then

You can thank PoMo for trying to turn Laine into a plug instead of a goal scorer.

 

[rkp]

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You make some real good points here Patty, and because Laine is so highly regarded, we could get an excellent return for him, and help out the club. I really don't think we absolutely need a pure goal scorer, but we do need some defensive pieces and another center --and Laine would bring in a nice return. In my mind he hasn't proven himself yet --like a MacKinnon type of player, that he was supposed to be. He doesn't dominate or control the play either, so I would trade him if the return was right to add balance to the club, that is not good on the back end. I wouldn't give him away, but if the right couple players were offered, I'd likely make the deal as a GM. If Laine had the speed of a Selanne, Ehlers, or Connor -- I wouldn't trade him -- but he looks like a limited player to me.

Just my opinion here --and I know many would strongly disagree with me on Laine.

You would think after the trouba trade people would realize you never get anything close to what you are trading away.trading laine would also be incredibly foolish considering his potential...just need to get to get rid of pomo who is trying to, as he has admitted, into a power forward instead of a goal scorer.

 

[DRW204]

You can thank PoMo for trying to turn Laine into a plug instead of a goal scorer.

plugs aren't among leaders of their respective teams in PP TOI, SOGs, and top 6 ice-time.

 

[rkp]

plugs aren't among leaders of their respective teams in PP TOI, SOGs, and top 6 ice-time.

you are talking about wheeler/schief right?

 

[rkp]

What are you saying. They found him plenty. They can't get it to him every time. He had like a 10 shots on net. He cant shoot straight anymore. He either shoots it into the Crest or misses the net all together.

there were more often than not last night they often neglected laine in the slot and passed it away elsewhere...in fact far too many times.

 

[DRW204]

you are talking about wheeler/schief right?

ya two plugs that have put up ppg+ years their past 2 full seasons

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It also spells out a problem when you don't identify the issue when pointing out a problem.
The coach and his decisions may impact every player - but's important to know what exactly the impact may be -
With the issue I brought up, I don't think it's coaching -

True. But I don't accept the existence of that issue.

Some shots will always lack zip. They are taken from a poor position, with poor posture or balance. Not every shot will be a player's best.

 

[Howard Chuck]

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Really good post here --and it would be interesting to look at other big trades and how they worked out. I know the Eric Lindros trade is one that would be interesting to talk about, as well as some others.

If I owned the Jets or was the GM - I'd have a very open mind on trading Laine-- "but only" for proven players in return. ( a defenseman for sure)

I know many posters would not share my sentiment on Laine, and it may be unpopular -- but I really think it's worth keeping an open mind about --if the right players came along.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Laine is going to be a superstar in a couple of years, but I'm always about making the team the best it can be. I would trade anyone for the right return.

 

[ffh]

This is vastly overstated. Our defensemen just aren’t good.

And who's to blame for that.

 

[PaperRockChamp]

I think he means Perreault was shaking his head at Scheif's celebration , possibly leaning in to the player beside him and saying , what a goof . Let's start some more rumours .

Yeah.. i shouldn't have shared that garbage since it's purely from my perspective, lol. I will say that the bench was all smiles until that highlight which is what got me.. but I acknowledge that's tin-foil level.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes. But many of our forwards seem to prefer a perimeter game because it doesn't require you to get challenged physically by often large defensemen trying to clear out opposing team's forwards from around the net - in other words it doesn't hurt. I get the impression that our first and second line guys don't like to have to wage that battle. Most teams make forwards pay a price for being in and around their keeper, especially right in front of the net. Winnipeg used to do that too. We don't really do that much anymore. Between the dots around Helle is a very welcoming place. There might be a few sticks waived in your direction to create a bit of a nuisance, but other than that make yourself at home.

I suspect that Surixon is right. What we are seeing is what the coach is asking them for - not the results but the system.

 

[GNP]

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Laine is going to be a superstar in a couple of years, but I'm always about making the team the best it can be. I would trade anyone for the right return.

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I hope your right Howard Chuck on Laine being a superstar, but I`m not really sold. It`s good that you have an open mind about trading any player, if it made our team the best it can be. You have to keep an open mind, and also not make panic trades -- but if the right deal comes along you make the deal.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I suspect that Surixon is right. What we are seeing is what the coach is asking them for - not the results but the system.

I suspect that he is right as well. But a point shot driven offense with no traffic in front is mindless. I do not believe that the coach is coaching them not to get to the net. I suppose it is possible that our forward too often defer to being too high in an effort to generate back pressure when the puck goes the other way.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

ya two plugs that have put up ppg+ years their past 2 full seasons

They have been mediocre at best as a top line when you look at their ES production. I’m not expecting any love for Laine from you, but you should know that Chef and Wheeler have not been great together for a long time.