Confirmed with Link: Jets/Buffalo Blockbuster! part II (Kane and Bogo)

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sipowicz

The thrill is gone
Mar 16, 2011
31,956
42,241
The Kane/Bogo trade was B worthy when Chevy made it when the whole saga is complete and Lemieux, Rosl'v and Armia are all starting Jets Chevy will have garnered an A+.

Kane (with no brain) should be working as a greeter at a LV casino by then!
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,445
34,547
You're not doing it right at all. I think there's quite a bit of luck involved with how prospects pan out. You disagree?

There is uncertainty about how prospects pan out, but I disagree that making decisions about which prospects are more likely to turn out is predicated on "luck".

Are you saying that Lukas Sutter not turning out was just "bad luck" for Chevy and his scouts?

I think that in this case the Jets made a considered opinion about which prospects to include in the trade, and it looks like they made a good decision.

If all it takes to be a good GM is "luck", then why should anyone bother trying to critique the performance of a GM? Just call some lucky and some unlucky.
 

AWSAA

.............
Sep 8, 2003
3,657
1,353
My issue with the trade was the timing. Chevy clearly waited too long to act on these players. Both Bogosian & Kane should have fetched premium returns separately had they been moved earlier.
 

JPC

Registered User
Oct 27, 2014
10
0
My issue with the trade was the timing. Chevy clearly waited too long to act on these players. Both Bogosian & Kane should have fetched premium returns separately had they been moved earlier.

I see the timing a little differently. My take on it at the time was that Tim Murray offered a premium, since No. 9 was out of commission, and Sabres were tanking to get McDavid. So in a totally bizarre way, trading for an injured player commanded a premium in Murray's mind.;). I don't know how many years we will have to wait to see the stars align like this again.
 

Thorburnt

Registered User
Jul 16, 2015
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0
MTS Centre
My issue with the trade was the timing. Chevy clearly waited too long to act on these players. Both Bogosian & Kane should have fetched premium returns separately had they been moved earlier.

Thats what I was thinking too. Didnt Kane say he'd requested a trade every off season he was here? Imagine the return for a 23(?) year old coming off a 30 goal season...
 

DK59

Registered User
Nov 18, 2012
296
47
Thats what I was thinking too. Didnt Kane say he'd requested a trade every off season he was here? Imagine the return for a 23(?) year old coming off a 30 goal season...

So we were supposed to trade Kane after year 1 in Winnipeg just because he might have asked to be traded? Why would we feel a strong motivation to accommodate such a request given that we still had him under team control for 4 more years at the end of that season and then proceeded in that offseason to lock him for 6 years?

Yes I do understand there were legitimate reasons for making the trade earlier because of the character issues that were surfacing about Kane but we really have no idea what kind of attempts were made to make a trade and what kind of return we could have received if we had traded him earlier.

There is also a real argument for exercising some patience with younger players that are lacking maturity early on in their careers. For proof of this all you have to do is ask how Boston fans are feeling about the Tyler Sequin trade.
 
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meedle

Registered User
May 17, 2011
4,985
91
Winnipeg
My issue with the trade was the timing. Chevy clearly waited too long to act on these players. Both Bogosian & Kane should have fetched premium returns separately had they been moved earlier.

Going by the little trading Chevy does, and by what the media reports, Chevy doesn't do a trade unless he gets his price or close to it.
 

AngelicAssassin*

Guest
Thats what I was thinking too. Didnt Kane say he'd requested a trade every off season he was here? Imagine the return for a 23(?) year old coming off a 30 goal season...


Can't really say that though. I'm sure Chevy was listening to offers but with Kane pretty openly wanting to be traded and already displaying some of the actions that have pretty much made him a cancer Chevy was getting low-balled on him for sure. Can't remember for sure but how much Bogosian trade talk was there in advance of the trade with regards to possibly going elsewhere.


IMO it was almost a "perfect storm" scenario for the Sabres as I think was mentioned as they wanted to go into the toilet and would get little immediate help in this deal. And had they landed McDavid and even with landing Eichel some of what they gave up maybe had a lesser value to them based on their evaluations.

Myers, Stafford and Armia have all conyributed to varying degrees and the 2 unknowns(Lemieux and the pick that became Roslovic) have shown that they may well be important cogs when we become contenders on a regular basis. Only Stafford may not be around beyond this season.

Kane(who knows what happens now) and Bogo, god love him is going to be a bandaid boy his entire career. I'll be surprised if Kasdorf has more than some random token appearances in the NHL and will likely not achieve beyond the AHL.

I miss Bogo at times but Kane, not even a little and all things being equal where would Kasdorf rank in our goaltending heirarchy today?
 

KCjetsfan

Registered User
Jul 14, 2012
3,035
455
Gardner KS
Put it this way. Would you trade Roslovic and Lemieux for Kane? What about Roslovic, Lemieux and Armia?

Im not thqt high on either lemieux or armia, so I don't think it's a slam dunk. Kane is and likely will be better than all, but yes I would take a chance that 3 prospects pan out better than one Kane.
 

KCjetsfan

Registered User
Jul 14, 2012
3,035
455
Gardner KS
Your statement is highly contextual.

Not winning the lottery changes the dynamic substantially. Absent Laine we're quite likely to have only pulled in Connor as a rookie forward and his development arc would have very likely paralleled Ehlers development with a start on the third line, eventually moving up to the top six should he follow a similar development line. Absent Laine we actually need to have Stafford for our roster as a top six player. Certainly he's an imperfect forward but we didn't exactly have a ton of guys filling the net on a regular basis. Stafford did that and did it reasonably well. He's not the greatest on defense perhaps but there are no guarantees that either Laine or Connor are going to be exceptional in that manner in their rookie seasons either. We might all speculate and hope that they'll bring more to the table than Stafford but it is entirely within the realm of possibility that both are more of a defensive liability than Stafford has been in the past, especially as rookies. Their ceilings both offensively and defensively might be higher but they've proven precisely nothing at this point.

I don't consider the signing of Stafford as neutral or negative. When he was signed there was no indication we'd get an offensive phenom at #2 OA. I consider it a slight overpay to get a shorter term. That term to me is looking just slightly off ideal. Should Laine or Connor (both) have Ehlers-like seasons then Stafford becomes a luxury item that expires at the end of the year. He might have negative tendencies/trends in certain aspects of his game, but now that we have Laine we all seem to think of him (Stafford) as some sort of Devin Setoguchi clone and that's not accurate. However if Laine and/or Connor disappoint to an extent we'll likely be thankful to have a veteran top six presence that can score.

I respectfully disagree that Stafford isn't a winning part of that trade. Initially he was just a rental that was helpful. Last season he was third in goals on a team that badly needed goal scoring. This season it appears he'll be a luxury we don't need. That's a good place to be but outside of winning that second slot in the lottery we're drafting Tkachuk-Keller-Nylander-Sergachev, all of whom are likely headed back to their junior leagues.

Bogosian-Myers is a rub to me. Kane appears the better player overall of the remaining but the headaches and teams disruption are absolutely worth what appears to a 2.25 season acquisition that was needed (Stafford), what looks to be going forward a 3rd line winger (Armia) that exceeds much of what we've played the last five years on the 3rd line and a 1st round pick (Roslovic) that appears to be a very reasonable shot at a middle six player. That's three roster players, two that might be with the Jets for the long run all to off-load a player with "issues" that his teammates didn't like? No, that's a clear win, even though we gave up the best player.

Fair enough. I disagree about counting the 2 years of new signing for Stafford in the trade but acknowledge that's certainly debatable.

On a side note I groaned hearing Stafford was traded here so the laine result isn't clouding my opinion.

Had we not won the lottery it's quite possible the goals for this year would be different, and Stafford could have hurt (or helped) but that's purely speculative.
 

Hobby Bull

amazon sucks
May 21, 2013
1,215
132
Put it this way. Would you trade Roslovic and Lemieux for Kane? What about Roslovic, Lemieux and Armia?

That's an interesting hypothetical...

I don't know which way I'd go on that, but I do think that it wouldn't take that much today to get Kane.
 

kylbaz

Winnipeg <3
Nov 14, 2015
5,097
5,295
www.movingtowinnipeg.ca
Thats what I was thinking too. Didnt Kane say he'd requested a trade every off season he was here? Imagine the return for a 23(?) year old coming off a 30 goal season...

I would have traded him then, because he's just not that good! I called it after his 30 goal season, I asked what do you see in him and got laughed at. Majority of his goals were garbage goals. He would never pass, and when he did it was a blind pass. Shoots EVERYWHERE. He can't create anything, all he does is go up and down the ice.
 

FinJetster

Registered User
Mar 1, 2015
326
368
Kerava, Finland
I would have traded him then, because he's just not that good! I called it after his 30 goal season, I asked what do you see in him and got laughed at. Majority of his goals were garbage goals. He would never pass, and when he did it was a blind pass. Shoots EVERYWHERE. He can't create anything, all he does is go up and down the ice.

I agree. I watched Kane his whole NHL-career and never saw anything special. And I really tried and wanted to see something, anything that made so many people think he was a great player.
He was, the same way you described, like a Stiga table hockey game player. Able only to go up and down and shoot approximately at the direction of the goal.

In my opinion, Armia alone could very well end up being a lot better player (of course I got the Finnish bias). What I've heard Roslovic might do the same. Even Lemieux could come close.

The one time I remember Kane being my hero, and even been proud to have him on "my team" was this (and I hate fighting, but I hate players like Matt Cooke more):
 
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Jets4Life

Registered User
Dec 25, 2003
7,351
4,318
Westward Ho, Alberta
Fair enough. I disagree about counting the 2 years of new signing for Stafford in the trade but acknowledge that's certainly debatable.

On a side note I groaned hearing Stafford was traded here so the laine result isn't clouding my opinion.

Had we not won the lottery it's quite possible the goals for this year would be different, and Stafford could have hurt (or helped) but that's purely speculative.

We have to attempt to trade Stafford. No room for him, and his salary is too high. He is over the hill, and we could get a high draft pick in 2017 for him.
 

YetAnotherGM

Registered User
Jan 8, 2014
400
213
We have to attempt to trade Stafford. No room for him, and his salary is too high. He is over the hill, and we could get a high draft pick in 2017 for him.

How would we get a high draft pick? Only a team trying to make some noise in the playoffs might would want him. I don't see a team that is rebuilding trading for him.

Wouldn't the Jets need his salary for the expansion draft as well to reach the floor?
 

TheDeuce

Halak, Ryder, and a second.
Feb 22, 2009
2,147
1,725
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We have to attempt to trade Stafford. No room for him, and his salary is too high. He is over the hill, and we could get a high draft pick in 2017 for him.

Ladd got us 22nd. How is Staff going to translate into better than Ladd?


m.
 

puck stoppa

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
12,958
6,637
Winnipeg
Ladd got us 22nd. How is Staff going to translate into better than Ladd?


m.

By high I would think maybe 2nd round but probably 3rd. A team at the deadline that wants scoring depth in the playoffs may grab him for a 2nd. Never know. That would be a good return IMO.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,445
34,547
By high I would think maybe 2nd round but probably 3rd. A team at the deadline that wants scoring depth in the playoffs may grab him for a 2nd. Never know. That would be a good return IMO.

A third isn't really much of a return. The Sabres recently threw one away for the negotiating rights of Vesey. I would angle for a second or higher, depending on his performance. Since it's a contract year for him, if he gets favorable usage he could score plenty. I could see him being a somewhat valuable rental, assuming the Jets aren't in the playoff race.
 

Shazzam

Now 20% Chunkier
Oct 29, 2015
763
438
Great White North eh...
If all we're going to get for Stafford is a 3rd rounder, the Jets may feel he has more value staying with the club. Scoring 20 plus goals in this league is nothing to sneeze at. With the forward depth we have going into next season, he'll probably be playing with some very good linemates, and having another good year. Unless one of the youngsters can outperform him, he may even be extended.

Burmi, on the other hand......unless he can continue to play like he did the final few games, I don't see how there's room for him.
 

Dayofthedogs

Bettman's hammer
Feb 20, 2016
2,113
1,038
Winnipeg
If it turns out positive, it must be good luck.

If something turns out negative, it's idiocy not bad luck.

Am I doing this right, now?


Yes. This is exactly how it's done.

Kane = good hockey player that probably had the tools to be great.

At this point I'm fairly confident I can say he is a very poor teammate.
 

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