Post-Game Talk: Jets bedeviled, lose in Jersey 4-2

[bustamente]

We need first 30 games in PLD back

 

[WolfHouse]

We need first 30 games in PLD back

This team hasnt been the same since the montreal game...

 

[surixon]

I agree it's not everyone - but most.
I wouldn't just pull PLD and KC out of the pile - and keep in mind, I'm not looking at one game to support the call out.

When we were playing well (really well), Scheif, PLD, KC were dominant - and they are not any more.
They were also playing a different game at that time - they are now looking a lot like LY - not all the time but it slips back into the game here and there - sometimes for several games in a row.

That's the difference - consistency and complete buy in - I don't see it as a style with this group - more of a place they go after losing a few and then they remember.

Our bottom 6 used to be pure energy - not any more (eyssimount / axle were a big part of that). They didn't score but they set the tempo - they added the energy every time they stepped on the ice. Who's doing that now?

Our top bunch were playing a complete game - scoring and battling. They finished their checks and were always dangerous offensively. You barely see a hit from this group now and they are back to having real trouble entering the ozone as a group - and they forgot how to dump and chase (none of that tonight - but tons of neutral zone turnovers and cross up's on the blue line - turnovers.

The systems Bones wants from the guys is fading fast - they are looking more and more like a team that feels they can get it done on talent alone - meanwhile, they get picked off all night as they try to complete that pretty play. Nothing net front, weak board battles, slow slow slow through the neutral zone, ringers around the boards on the way out of their zone (turnover), nothing on the forecheck, less of a back check, flybys, and so on.

It's interesting that they are at least moving out there - so they don't look like they are floating - but they are cheating and the D game (or complete game) is becoming a faint memory.

JoMo is the exception - and Cole is somehow playing well in the middle of this.

Hate harping on the Jets - but there is trouble brewing at the worst possible time - and I thinks it's fair to call it out when you consider how well this bunch can play when they play the right way - and it's mainly on our best players IMO.

Good post. To me a lot of it is an execution issue. When we start lobbing pizzas and making passes into players feet or behind players it then gets us off our game and the team then starts chasing and we unravel.

I don't see an effort issue, our players are still playing hard but when the execution is off or we are half a second slow we are behind and chasing the play. This makes it hard to get in and win pucks or to get the puck in our end and move it out.

I thinknif they clean up the passing and puck management our game will start to look like it did earlier this year.

 

[LowLefty]

Good post. To me a lot of it is an execution issue. When we start lobbing pizzas and making passes into players feet or behind players it then gets us off our game and the team then starts chasing and we unravel.

I don't see an effort issue, our players are still playing hard but when the execution is off or we are half a second slow we are behind and chasing the play. This makes it hard to get in and win pucks or to get the puck in our end and move it out.

I thinknif they clean up the passing and puck management our game will start to look like it did earlier this year.

I agree that execution is off - good point.
Part of my point was that they are not playing the system Bones wants - that does include the work I mentioned but also includes the style of game they play.

I'm pretty sure he wants them to simplify things - at both ends - and that takes a lot of the execution issues out of the equation. They try hard to make things more complicated than they need to be - and I think it comes from the talent wanting to add too much flair to the game plan.

But you're right - it's not necessarily about the effort over all.
It's more about the effort needed to play the system Bones wants. He wants to see them hard on the puck, creating turnovers and playing a transition game.

That type of offense looks a lot different than what we create - which is mostly coming out of our end with possession but with the opposition set to defend. That's a very different offense than what you can generate when creating turnovers - it's a transition game that is much harder to defend on the fly.
And to get that type of game back, you need to work hard - that's the effort I am referring to.

 

[surixon]

I agree that execution is off - good point.
Part of my point was that they are not playing the system Bones wants - that does include the work I mentioned but also includes the style of game they play.

I'm pretty sure he wants them to simplify things - at both ends - and that takes a lot of the execution issues out of the equation. They try hard to make things more complicated than they need to be - and I think it comes from the talent wanting to add too much flair to the game plan.

But you're right - it's not necessarily about the effort over all.
It's more about the effort needed to play the system Bones wants. He wants to see them hard on the puck, creating turnovers and playing a transition game.

That type of offense looks a lot different than what we create - which is mostly coming out of our end with possession but with the opposition set to defend. That's a very different offense than what you can generate when creating turnovers - it's a transition game that is much harder to defend on the fly.
And to get that type of game back, you need to work hard - that's the effort I am referring to.

Yeah our forecheck and pressure game which lead to the team turning over pucks and gaining zone time hasn't been visible much lately.

 

[None]

Yeah our forecheck and pressure game which lead to the team turning over pucks and gaining zone time hasn't been visible much lately.

The bottom 6 is back to the point where they're not scoring, they're not hitting, and they're not even blocking shots. So what are any of them bringing? The best forecheckers in the bottom 6 were Wheeler and Ehlers. Maenalanen and Appleton were completely ineffective at best in the top 6, and actively hampering their linemates at worst.
Lately they've also been taking penalties in their limited ice time.

 

[surixon]

The bottom 6 is back to the point where they're not scoring, they're not hitting, and they're not even blocking shots. So what are any of them bringing? The best forecheckers in the bottom 6 were Wheeler and Ehlers. Maenalanen and Appleton were completely ineffective at best in the top 6, and actively hampering their linemates at worst.
Lately they've also been taking penalties in their limited ice time.

Yup our bottom 6 has started to become an issue especially now that Lowry has stopped scoring.

If we are to do any damage we need to bring in two players and put Adam on the fourth with Barron and Appelton.

We need a 3C that has some talent and another good middle 6 winger.

 

[bustamente]

Just exactly does Big Adam Lowry bring to this team, offence was never his strong suit, he rarely hits anymore and basically skates around for 35 seconds and goes off the ice. People got upset when I called him a 4th liner that penalty kills but unfortunately that what he has become and that's not good enough for what the Jets are paying him.

 

[None]

Yup our bottom 6 has started to become an issue especially now that Lowry has stopped scoring.

If we are to do any damage we need to bring in two players and put Adam on the fourth with Barron and Appelton.

We need a 3C that has some talent and another good middle 6 winger.

Yeah, I'm not even sure if I want a top of the line/big fish rental if it just means pushing one of the players in the top 6 down. I think I'd rather have 2 better/middle 6 depth players than 1 top player. Even if those 2 middle 6 players end up costing the same as the big fish.
None of the players that would get bumped down fit the way they want the bottom 6 to play. Unless they choose to go with a top 9 where Lowry gets bumped down. But then I also just don't have much faith that this coaching staff will deploy a lineup like that effectively.

We know that Bowness favours a really top heavy deployment. He's also willing to bench players and double shift the players he trusts more late in games and in higher event situations like 3 on 3 and 4 on 4. I think there's legitimate concern that a big fish could just get the 3rd/4th line Hayes treatment and just add nothing to the team in 6-9 minutes TOI on the whims of the coach.

Was it Stenlund-Maenalanen out 4 on 4 the other night, briefly against Laine and maybe Roslovic? Reminded me of a game a few years ago against Ottawa (I think, maybe Montreal?) that went to OT. Their coach threw out their 3rd line against Maurice's somewhat innovative 3FWD lineup and I don't think their opponent ever touched the puck in OT.
The current strategy that Bowness/Arniel are employing seems to treat 4 on 4 as a shorthanded situation rather than even strength for whatever reason.

Just exactly does Big Adam Lowry bring to this team, offence was never his strong suit, he rarely hits anymore and basically skates around for 35 seconds and goes off the ice. People got upset when I called him a 4th liner that penalty kills but unfortunately that what he has become and that's not good enough for what the Jets are paying him.

I used to criticize him pretty heavily without pushback. His offense was actually pretty good for a stretch this season but that's completely dried up. It might be sacrilege to suggest but I think he struggles with maintaining consistently high effort. Like a lot of the Jets roster I think he gets too comfortable because his role is so secure. But really who's going to challenge him when we refuse to deploy the 3rd line any differently?

 

[Jets 31]

New Jersey is a very good team but putting a stone hands on every line doesn't work. Our star players need to be better also, Connor's give away behind our net for the game winning goal isn't good enough. Scheifele played a good first period but looked tired after that. Dubois was unnoticed most of the game, maybe trying not to get a penalty. Need a win tonight somehow.

 

[voyageur]

Yup our bottom 6 has started to become an issue especially now that Lowry has stopped scoring.

If we are to do any damage we need to bring in two players and put Adam on the fourth with Barron and Appelton.

We need a 3C that has some talent and another good middle 6 winger.

For me right now the issue is Kyle Connor isn't tearing it up. Jets need their guns to score. Dubois is in a slump too.

The way Scheifele is playing with so much heart right now, 200 ft game, he's leading, and Perfetti is feeding off it, I'd promote Connor on to his wing, and try to make that the top line, maybe for the next 2-3 years.

I didn't like Maenalanen in the top 9. I don't think that's a role he belongs in. For me go back to the grind line, because they can grind it out, and rarely give up chances. There's nothing wrong with that line, and if they can get the pucks in deep and keep them there, that's more offensive opportunities for the next line up. Ehlers and Wheeler are not the right wingers for Adam Lowry. But maybe with PLD they can all break out of their funks.

4th line should have scored tonight, that was a real skilled play Kuhlman made to kick the puck through skates to set up Stenlund on the back door. I like Stenlund and Maenalanen's games but those guys are not the guys I expect to score. I'm really shocked actually that Stenlund gets PP duty over Lowry, who is at the very least an intimidating net front presence.

 

[snowkiddin]

Yet another bad effort against a team that was on the second-half of a back-to-back.

They’ve been stacking too many games where the give-a-shit factor has been in the metaphorical toilet. I’d be cautious about spending too many assets at the deadline on this team. Our depth scoring is non-existent but our stars haven’t been stars lately so I’m not sure how much to invest into this team.

Also, I thought it was a typo the other day when I read on the Jets website that Maenalanen was on the top line. If only it actually were …

 

[voyageur]

Of all the losses I don't mind this defeat at all. The stupidity of those lines deserved a nice slap in the face and we got that. Better to lose and ensure stupid ideas like that don't get rewarded and get nipped in the bud. Those newly minted top-3 lines with a "checker" each one of them got scored on against at 5v5, good!

Every passing game makes it more apparent to me that spending premium assets to get Bowness help is going to be a big mistake. It would be the equivalent of buying an expensive steak dinner for your dog who is not gonna know what to do with it and is gonna be wasted on it.

It backfired, other than Scheifele's line. Appleton played a helluva game on that line. I thought that was a relatively good road game against one of Bettman's favourites. A well coached fast paced team, that transitioned two defensive situations into offense quickly in the 3rd. It was a positive in a game that featured maybe the best team in the league 1-3 at RD for Neal Pionk to get a couple of points.

I don't know how much the team misses Brad Lauer on the bench, strange to have père Dubois running the PP from up top, but it seems similar to the struggles the PP had without Kompon last year.

As a fan not ready to jump off the bandwagon yet I hope the Jets can dig themselves out of their slump.

 

[BigZ65]

Just exactly does Big Adam Lowry bring to this team, offence was never his strong suit, he rarely hits anymore and basically skates around for 35 seconds and goes off the ice. People got upset when I called him a 4th liner that penalty kills but unfortunately that what he has become and that's not good enough for what the Jets are paying him.

It’s the pattern of most seasons in his career. Out of the gates hot, or returns from injury hot, get injured and try to play through but have no ability to shoot the puck.

I never thought he’d make it this long with the repeated shoulder injuries.

It backfired, other than Scheifele's line. Appleton played a helluva game on that line. I thought that was a relatively good road game against one of Bettman's favourites. A well coached fast paced team, that transitioned two defensive situations into offense quickly in the 3rd. It was a positive in a game that featured maybe the best team in the league 1-3 at RD for Neal Pionk to get a couple of points.

I don't know how much the team misses Brad Lauer on the bench, strange to have père Dubois running the PP from up top, but it seems similar to the struggles the PP had without Kompon last year.

As a fan not ready to jump off the bandwagon yet I hope the Jets can dig themselves out of their slump.

Johnston is running the PP.

 

[Jet]

So, since all our injured players came back we’ve pretty much been playing like sh*t.
What happened to the team that was always skating hard and out working the other teams.

It’s feels like they’re regressing back to the past couple years where they believe that their talent will take them to the promised land. But it won’t.

This is it right here. I don't think our talent understands how hard they have to work.

You can blame the bottom 6 for lack of production all you want but if your top players aren't leading by example you have no shot.

I was hoping Bones could take the break and light schedule to get the guys reset but it's proving harder than originally hoped.

Of course, this just simply could be a slump. All teams go through it and this group is definitely struggling with low confidence.

The good news is I still think defensively the team is playing well, which tells me they're comfortable with the new systems and have them committed to muscle memory.

Offensively though we are timid, indecisive and that's leading to poor passes, puck decisions and losing battles.

Pretty much our entire top 9 was dogmeat last night. I still like the idea of 3 scoring lines, I do believe that's the best way to win matchups and wear teams down but it requires effort.

I hope Bowness still has some tricks up his sleeve because we need to go on a run here.

I'm just glad I refrained from posting last night because I was in the trade everyone, fire everyone mindset.

The Devils are a really nice team, great team speed and skill and a coach who knows how to use it.

 

[Jet]

New Jersey played yesterday while the Jets had a couple days off. That makes this loss even more frustrating.

I'm not trying to come up with excuses but I've always found as a player identifying the secret sauce to having the happy legs and a sharp mind is elusive at best. I've played in tournaments where I've played much better in the second game of the day than the first.

Is not uncommon to see rested teams getting outplayed by teams that should be tired.

I think that psychology in hockey still has a long way to go.

 

[Jet]

No. Bowness made an absolute hash of the forward lines for no f***ing reason, and this was the result.

There was a reason, we weren't scoring.

I wanted something like this for a while and I hope he sticks with it for a while.

You can't proclaim something failed after one game. I like the fact that Bowness actually tries shit instead of pretending everything is OK.

Or lack of PP success is a microcosm of our skilled players struggles overall. Everything has an air of indecision and delay, and a lack of execution. Putting more direct grinding players with skilled players hopefully drills into their heads what it takes to be successful.

 

[bustamente]

Even Helle standing on his head is not enough for this team to win if the guys in front of him don't want to put in the work. An early exit in the playoffs and Chevy has to look at what he has constructed and start moving players that don't put in the effort and or consistently play like they don't give a shit.

 

[Jets 31]

There was a reason, we weren't scoring.

I wanted something like this for a while and I hope he sticks with it for a while.

You can't proclaim something failed after one game. I like the fact that Bowness actually tries shit instead of pretending everything is OK.

Or lack of PP success is a microcosm of our skilled players struggles overall. Everything has an air of indecision and delay, and a lack of execution. Putting more direct grinding players with skilled players hopefully drills into their heads what it takes to be successful.

I'm happy Bowness is trying stuff too but we need some scoring help, Lowry , Barron , Khulman, Mahnamaha just can't score. We need some help, me i would go after Boeser and Domi.

 

[surixon]

There was a reason, we weren't scoring.

I wanted something like this for a while and I hope he sticks with it for a while.

You can't proclaim something failed after one game. I like the fact that Bowness actually tries shit instead of pretending everything is OK.

Or lack of PP success is a microcosm of our skilled players struggles overall. Everything has an air of indecision and delay, and a lack of execution. Putting more direct grinding players with skilled players hopefully drills into their heads what it takes to be successful.

I want three scoring lines as well but we don't have the complimentary pieces to make it work. Chevy has a job to do over the next week or so.

But I agree that the players are gripping their sticks too tight in the offensive end right now.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

There was a reason, we weren't scoring.

I wanted something like this for a while and I hope he sticks with it for a while.

You can't proclaim something failed after one game. I like the fact that Bowness actually tries shit instead of pretending everything is OK.

Or lack of PP success is a microcosm of our skilled players struggles overall. Everything has an air of indecision and delay, and a lack of execution. Putting more direct grinding players with skilled players hopefully drills into their heads what it takes to be successful.

Re: the line "adjustments".
I'm all in for having the scoring spread out over at least three lines and I would imagine that Bowness will not abandon his "experiment" after just one game. (I guess we'll find out tonight.) However, filling in the "scoring pair" lines with fourth line/waiver pickups is probably not a recipe for success. I'm reluctantly willing to give it a few more games but I believe Chevy has to make probably two trades.

 

[Jet]

I'm happy Bowness is trying stuff too but we need some scoring help, Lowry , Barron , Khulman, Mahnamaha just can't score. We need some help, me i would go after Boeser and Domi.

I want three scoring lines as well but we don't have the complimentary pieces to make it work. Chevy has a job to do over the next week or so.

But I agree that the players are gripping their sticks too tight in the offensive end right now.

Re: the line "adjustments".
I'm all in for having the scoring spread out over at least three lines and I would imagine that Bowness will not abandon his "experiment" after just one game. (I guess we'll find out tonight.) However, filling in the "scoring pair" lines with fourth line/waiver pickups is probably not a recipe for success. I'm reluctantly willing to give it a few more games but I believe Chevy has to make probably two trades.

No argument here.

I was really hoping that at least Barron and Stenlund could find some scoring but that's not happening.

I still want Meier as unlikely as that is, along with maybe a mid 6 guy. I think that could make us formidable.

 

[KingBogo]

Re: the line "adjustments".
I'm all in for having the scoring spread out over at least three lines and I would imagine that Bowness will not abandon his "experiment" after just one game. (I guess we'll find out tonight.) However, filling in the "scoring pair" lines with fourth line/waiver pickups is probably not a recipe for success. I'm reluctantly willing to give it a few more games but I believe Chevy has to make probably two trades.

Agreed. There is a big difference between having 3 scoring lines and spreading out some AHL tweeners across your top 3 lines and pretending that is 3 scoring lines. And most definitely Chevy needs to add to this roster.

 

[DRW204]

The thing with the grinding /forecheck guy on each line is that they still need some semblance of offensive IQ or skill. That what makes guys like Hagel, Palat or Nichushkin and Lehkonnen great in those roles for COL and TBL.

Appleton, Saku, Barron, Lowry are not viable offensive options/threats.

The whole "create space" thing is fine in theory. But when you see them then flub a pass, misfire a prime scoring opportunity, or behind the play/not finding soft spots. It really doesnt help.

200 ft or 2-way play just doesn't devoid from having offense to your game. It's supposed to include it. These guys are more unidimensional than true 2-way imo.

 

[BigZ65]

It’s funny for all the talk of bottom six scoring that the first guys we’ve cut have always been the ones producing the most offense in those roles…and the guys most effective when moved up to play with the scoring lines.

Harkins, Eyssimont, AJF

We still have two of those guys. At what point do you cut Kuhlman, Saku and bring those guys back?

Also when do you give Barron a shot with one of Schiefele-Perfetti or Connor-Dubois for an extended period?

Kuhlman is a reliable role player, but I mean we aren’t losing anything much if we lost him.

Saku makes one play a game with his big frame that makes you think “holy shit when this guy figures it out he’s going to be an awesome NHLer.” But he’s so inconsistent it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t belong.