Rumor: Jesse Puljujarvi Part 3: Maybe He Picked Out His Brain Through His Nose One Lick at a Time?

[dustrock]

Still wondering what happened with Pulju and his schooling. Learning a 2nd language in mandatory in Finland, and nearly 90% pick English. What kind of slack-arsing did Pulju do through school to manage to not learn English while on the road to trying to be an NHLer?

My thoughts exactly. You've been an elite youth player in Finland, eyes on making the NHL, or even (gasp!) being a #1 draft pick as you get older, and yet no thoughts on learning English?

Why did Jarko pass on his countryman?

 

[oobga]

My thoughts exactly. You've been an elite youth player in Finland, eyes on making the NHL, or even (gasp!) being a #1 draft pick as you get older, and yet no thoughts on learning English?

Why did Jarko pass on his countryman?

It wasn't even really a choice. He had to pick a 2nd language as part of going to school in Finland. What did he pick? Pig Latin?

I don't think it's unfair for teams to expect a top Fin prospect to already know English honestly. But of course, no team had to pick him in the draft without already knowing the kid and his background. Him being a slacker in school could have easily been figured out before the draft.

Not the end of the world of course. You can do bad in school and still be good at hockey. Smytty is a shining example of that . Just...need to not have that unwillingness to be serious and motivated to pay attention and learn in school carry over in how you act in your professional hockey career.

 

[frag2]

I am so tired of the false narrative surrounding Jesse Puljujärvi that fans with a blatant lack of insight loves to buy into. The main one being his "supposed" lack of hockey IQ, and that it was apparent early on, and that scouts got it wrong.

These fallacies comes up all the time and prevents us from having a real discussion on real issues concerning JP. Lets look back at his draft year and see what scouts had to say:









These are words of professional scouts, people that on a professional level has worked for years and years assessing talent. Let me just say this, there are very few fans that can truly say they know better and be right. To say that Puljujärvi lacked hockey IQ when he was drafted, and that (for example) it was apparent when he played with Aho that he was a step behind is plainly wrong.

Quite frankly I think it would be becoming if those of you that has been pushing this idea apologize for talking out of your ass.

There is a CLEAR disconnect. There are various rumours and rapports concerning the reason for Jesse Puljujärvi's lack of progression. Lets discuss those, and drop the idea that Jesse Puljujärvi didn't/doesn't have enough "hockey iq" to make it on a professional level.

FYI - Just because someone watches hockey for a living doesn't make them a pro or good at their job

 

[Del Preston]

Too high, too high, too high, too high, too high, too high, too high, better than Laine? nope... that's crazy talk, too high, too high, too high, too high, too high, too high.


Scouts (even multiple scouts) get player projections wrong all the time... that's why you have surprises in the late 1st and on into the 2nd and 3rd rounds and early 1st round busts... every... single... year.

It's tough to project 17 year olds and JP was a "victim" of being drafted too high because they saw his physical stature as being easily translatable to carrying that play over to a top line/top 6 role in the NHL.

Apparently not.

It's easy three years later to say he shouldn't have been picked #4. Everyone had him ranked right where he was selected.

 

[HenrikW]

FYI - Just because someone watches hockey for a living doesn't make them a pro or good at their job

Context is king. Some keyboard warrior fans suggest that an entire profession were wrong, that they knew better and that it should have been quite obvious at the time yadayada. Dont you see how absurd that is? The entire hockey world thought JP was a steal at 4. I bet you these people were delighted when JP fell. People stating hindsight-opinion and then acting like thats how they thought all along annoys the f*** out of me.

 

[frag2]

Have you seen some of these so called 'scouts'?

Sure, a lot of it is in hindsight but IIRC, there were some people here already doubting his ability to convert at the NHL level; the same concerns that followed Paajarvi

 

[HenrikW]

Have you seen some of these so called 'scouts'?

Sure, a lot of it is in hindsight but IIRC, there were some people here already doubting his ability to convert at the NHL level; the same concerns that followed Paajarvi

Same people that voiced concerns over Nurse or Draisaitl I assume? Playing with Hall and not having fantastic impact? You will find that some people are naturally inclined to be pessimistic and spew over certain decisions one way or another. Doesnt mean they necessarily have deeper insight. There are risks to all draft picks, you have to pick the best bet available

 

[guymez]

Have you seen some of these so called 'scouts'?

Sure, a lot of it is in hindsight but IIRC, there were some people here already doubting his ability to convert at the NHL level; the same concerns that followed Paajarvi

I recall that as well although those voices were clearly in the minority and drowned out by all of the people shouting his praises.
I was one of the people happy that Jesse fell to #4 although at the time I did question why Jarmo passed on him at #3.
Normally that wouldnt have mattered but the man is Finnish and that made me pause a little.
Jarmo even got criticism and mocking on this board for passing on Jesse.

No one is mocking Jarmo now.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Absolutely scouts and the consensus can be wrong... ie Yakupov and Puljujarvi as 2 prime examples.

It has nothing to do with what I or anyone else thinks or thought at the time... either the pick was a good one and was "correct" or it was a misjudged pick and was wrong... ie Yak and JP (and many, many others over the years).

Personally I was wrong on Yak because I would have chosen him #1 as well... and was right on JP and wouldn't have taken him at #4... but that's besides the point.

Scouts are pack animals and are essentially seeing the same things and are often biased to overlook certain issues if they see a player with some tools they like ie size/speed... even though a player may have warning signs or issues in other areas (not being a primary driver on their line/team, defensive issues, attitude issues etc.)

Then there's the few scouts/GM's that sniff out something different about a player or see something that others don't give a lot of credence to... and obviously they can be right/wrong with those "outside the consensus" views as well.

Point being... just because you have a bunch of parrots saying the same thing about a player doesn't make those views correct. Sometimes they are just plain dead wrong and a player is overrated which leads to being picked too high for what they can actually deliver at the NHL level.

Picking players and projecting what they'll be like in the NHL at 20-30 years old while watching them play in lesser leagues at 17 years old is as much luck/art than science and if you asked scouts a year or 2 later about their ranks in a draft... I guarantee they'd admit they screwed up and should have chosen player X over player Y and should have given more weight to certain issues they saw but chose to overlook because of other traits they felt were enough to overcome those nagging negative traits of that player.

 

[frag2]

I recall that as well although those voices were clearly in the minority and drowned out by all of the people shouting his praises.
I was one of the people happy that Jesse fell to #4 although at the time I did question why Jarmo passed on him at #3.
Normally that wouldnt have mattered but the man is Finnish and that made me pause a little.
Jarmo even got criticism and mocking on this board for passing on Jesse.

No one is mocking Jarmo now.

I recall some Finnish posters come in saying they doubt he will have an impact expected out of a 4th overall. And then on the Mains even some have said too much of a similarity with MPS.

Like you, I too was excited having a 'consensus' top 3 player fall to us at 4. But after that first interview, I already had my doubts based on how poor his English was. Was the first guy to question it in our draft thread here. Like how was he actually gonna understand what's expected of him? His role? Instructions?

Unsurprisingly, posters here didn't like my quip about how his English might hold him back but then here we are lol

 

[BudBundy]

It wasn't even really a choice. He had to pick a 2nd language as part of going to school in Finland. What did he pick? Pig Latin?

I don't think it's unfair for teams to expect a top Fin prospect to already know English honestly. But of course, no team had to pick him in the draft without already knowing the kid and his background. Him being a slacker in school could have easily been figured out before the draft.

Not the end of the world of course. You can do bad in school and still be good at hockey. Smytty is a shining example of that . Just...need to not have that unwillingness to be serious and motivated to pay attention and learn in school carry over in how you act in your professional hockey career.

I think the whole language barrier thing is a bit overblown, at least with respect to the last two seasons. Didnt Kurt Leavins post an opinion from an ex-teammate that Jesse understands more than he lets on, but that he’s just stubborn? I’ve raked the Oilers over the coals from keeping him here too long in his rookie year, but I dont think thats the only reason he stalled anymore.

 

[McDNicks17]

I think Puljujarvi's archetype is one scouts often get wrong because the tools are so enticing, but they don't have much insight into the player's personality and that personality is going to be really important when a player is no longer able to easily get by on those tools.

Guys with lesser tools are used to working hard, changing/improving their game and trying to get every edge they can get, so you can expect them to do the same at the NHL level.

Unfortunately the Oilers ended up with two guys in Pulju and Yak who didn't really have to work all that hard relative to their peers and were too proud or stubborn to start when they got to the big leagues.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Do not Draft lists

Interesting read about ND lists and outside consensus views on certain players.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Do not Draft lists

Interesting read about ND lists and outside consensus views on certain players.

I find it really interesting that with all the money these teams have available, they'd rather draft a less skilled player with a good head on his shoulders, rather than a kid who's made some mistakes and might need some therapy or help in another sense.

I feel like everyone has a degree of mental health issues, and they can be managed with the right resources, especially by those with money, where as no amount of money will be able to teach you the skills you need to be an NHL player.

Then again, when you're in the entertainment business, and you're always looking for the biggest return for the lowest cost, the potential third liner who's a model pro at 18, is probably the better investment than the 18 year old headcase who could play in a top line role. It's kind of sad actually. These 18 year olds bomb and interview or make some regrettable teenage decisions, and suddenly their path to the NHL becomes even harder than the already slim chance they had.

Imagine being like Ho Sang. I don't know his whole story, but I imagine he was praised and told his entire life how amazing he was and how he was going to make the NHL, only to get complacent and develop this laziness/entitlement and end up on the verge of missing out on an NHL career by 23. I bet it's hard to stay motivated and on top of things when you're a teenager being told how great you are already at something, and then puberty hits and your priorities change big time. It's obviously not too similar, but I remember being told how smart I was my entire life leading up to highschool, only to get complacent and start focusing on girls in my teens because I figured school would always come easy, only to barely pass highschool because I couldn't be bothered to show up or put an effort in.

Just shows the kind of mental fortitude a lot of these guys have to dedicate everything to hockey.

Either way, it's a really interesting concept. I wonder how many of these no draft players are "never" and how many are just "not unless they fall to X round".

 

[frag2]

I find it really interesting that with all the money these teams have available, they'd rather draft a less skilled player with a good head on his shoulders, rather than a kid who's made some mistakes and might need some therapy or help in another sense.

I feel like everyone has a degree of mental health issues, and they can be managed with the right resources, especially by those with money, where as no amount of money will be able to teach you the skills you need to be an NHL player.

Then again, when you're in the entertainment business, and you're always looking for the biggest return for the lowest cost, the potential third liner who's a model pro at 18, is probably the better investment than the 18 year old headcase who could play in a top line role. It's kind of sad actually. These 18 year olds bomb and interview or make some regrettable teenage decisions, and suddenly their path to the NHL becomes even harder than the already slim chance they had.

Imagine being like Ho Sang. I don't know his whole story, but I imagine he was praised and told his entire life how amazing he was and how he was going to make the NHL, only to get complacent and develop this laziness/entitlement and end up on the verge of missing out on an NHL career by 23. I bet it's hard to stay motivated and on top of things when you're a teenager being told how great you are already at something, and then puberty hits and your priorities change big time. It's obviously not too similar, but I remember being told how smart I was my entire life leading up to highschool, only to get complacent and start focusing on girls in my teens because I figured school would always come easy, only to barely pass highschool because I couldn't be bothered to show up or put an effort in.

Just shows the kind of mental fortitude a lot of these guys have to dedicate everything to hockey.

Either way, it's a really interesting concept. I wonder how many of these no draft players are "never" and how many are just "not unless they fall to X round".

Ho Sang's problem was he couldn't keep his mouth shut. He has the talent but his mouth gets him in shit all the time. He's always coming off like someone with a chip on his shoulder but rather than keeping it on the ice and letting that do the talking, he'd rant either via social media or to the media directly.

 

[guymez]

I recall some Finnish posters come in saying they doubt he will have an impact expected out of a 4th overall. And then on the Mains even some have said too much of a similarity with MPS.

Like you, I too was excited having a 'consensus' top 3 player fall to us at 4. But after that first interview, I already had my doubts based on how poor his English was. Was the first guy to question it in our draft thread here. Like how was he actually gonna understand what's expected of him? His role? Instructions?

Unsurprisingly, posters here didn't like my quip about how his English might hold him back but then here we are lol

I hear you. It was completely valid for you to be concerned.
Like you I posted after the draft about his English as well and it was met with a significant amount of push back on here.

Its a funny thing with some players...posters will defend them to the teeth even if some of the concerns are justified.

 

[Debbie Mathers]

I've read through this entire thread, and a couple of posters have mentioned that "Jesse might show up for training camp" or something along those lines. The Oilers hold Jesse's NA rights, but he does not have a contract with the Oilers at this moment in time. Do the Oilers actually have to let him participate in camp if he shows up? Or can they just tell him to leave? (Not that I think he will show up; this is more of a hypothetical question.)

On a more general note, is it common that players take part in a team's camp without being under contract with said team? How does this work insurance-wise in case of an injury? If the player suffers a torn ACL, who pays for the medical bills? Does the player have to pay for his own insurance policy, or do some players just join the camp without insurance coverage?

Take Marner as an example. If he agrees to a contract with the Leafs, it sure looks like that contract could only be registered once a few players are sent on LTIR - which, as I understand it, is only possible after the season has started. Would he take part in the Leaf's training camp at all?

 

[guymez]

I've read through this entire thread, and a couple of posters have mentioned that "Jesse might show up for training camp" or something along those lines. The Oilers hold Jesse's NA rights, but he does not have a contract with the Oilers at this moment in time. Do the Oilers actually have to let him participate in camp if he shows up? Or can they just tell him to leave? (Not that I think he will show up; this is more of a hypothetical question.)

On a more general note, is it common that players take part in a team's camp without being under contract with said team? How does this work insurance-wise in case of an injury? If the player suffers a torn ACL, who pays for the medical bills? Does the player have to pay for his own insurance policy, or do some players just join the camp without insurance coverage?

Take Marner as an example. If he agrees to a contract with the Leafs, it sure looks like that contract could only be registered once a few players are sent on LTIR - which, as I understand it, is only possible after the season has started. Would he take part in the Leaf's training camp at all?

I have seen players show up at camp without a contract. It doest happen often but it does happen.
I am not sure what measures of protection from injury are there for them (when they arent under contract) but I think the NHLPA has something in place for the players.

I always saw a player showing up in camp without a contract as a show of good faith that a deal will be worked out.
I dont see that happening with Jesse. I would be shocked if he showed up at camp.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Sigh...if only they had stuck with drafting Sergachev

 

[harpoon]

Do the Oilers actually have to let him participate in camp if he shows up? Or can they just tell him to leave?

The Oilers can do whatever they want. They are special. Just ask Sheldon.

 

[Mara]

Back when Kekäläinen of Columbus didn't draft Jesse I had a feeling it had to do with his IQ, and not just hockey IQ, but it's pretty shocking to see it manifest itself to this extent and to see the fans turn on him like this. I remember quite a few people on HFBoards expected him to be ready for NHL on his first season and while I was a fan of the guy, unless I'm misremembering, it was clear to me that wasn't the case. I thought it was a problem of him growing up and adjusting physically, I never thought it would come to this. He's spent years in NA, if he still doesn't understand the language properly he's just a brick. No doubt about it, no excuses. Sad to see a great talent have so much trouble adjusting to such a basic thing as communication. I hope you guys at least get something worthwhile out of trading him.

 

[Not Canada Drai]

Do ya'll realize we trash a player AFTER he gets traded so we can maximize our return by hyping him up.

 

[Vagabond]

I was hoping hard for Tkachuk but was happy to get Pulji at the draft. After seeing him play since his draft I've noticed that he definitely lacks intelligence. You add that with zero confidence and a language barrier it equates to failure. He does have the tools tho which is tough to see happen. I hope he does go to Finland for a couple of years to not only regain confidence but to become a lot more mature. Hopefully he takes some English courses too.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It's easy three years later to say he shouldn't have been picked #4. Everyone had him ranked right where he was selected.

Except Columbus.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Context is king. Some keyboard warrior fans suggest that an entire profession were wrong, that they knew better and that it should have been quite obvious at the time yadayada. Dont you see how absurd that is? The entire hockey world thought JP was a steal at 4. I bet you these people were delighted when JP fell. People stating hindsight-opinion and then acting like thats how though all along annoys the **** out of me.

With all due respect the Oilers are the org that picked Steve Kelly first when all of Rexall was chanting Shane Doan here a couple decades ago. Any 10 yr old had the right answer, the Pro team got it wrong. Its not entirely outside the realm of reason that one team, or even a plurality of scouts gets a player, and ranking wrong. In many cases in ranking schemes a notion of order is established by the plurality. Not that its objective, just that in the absence of other information a lot of scouts/orgs/central scouting are going to go with that established order.

Theres several players in that draft that were better than Pulju and that probably ought to have been picked before him. I think Laine is largely what resulted in a couple other Finns being picked so high that year.

Going outside the box you can find a lot of financiers that get caught up in a bad shell game. Invest too heavily in the wrong companies, stocks, or at the wrong times etc, Its usually a rare analyst that can forecast a bear market when everybody else is shouting bull.

In the case of stock, or player evaluation, indicators and evaluation are often very subjective. In neither case is it science. Neither is beyond questioning.

A majority of scouts and teams just two years ago were asking players whether they played Fortnite at the combine. This was considered important red flag information. The hockey world is mostly run by those practicing beyond competence. Theres a few well run teams, mostly they aren't all that competent, and certainly are not beyond reproach. The few GM's and orgs that are any good usually steal everybody elses lunch money and this has always been the case in the NHL.