Rumor: Jesse Puljujarvi Part 3: Maybe He Picked Out His Brain Through His Nose One Lick at a Time?

[JetsOilersfan]

You're acting like an ass who thinks the Oilers **** gold.

There's fault on both sides. It is beyond mind blowing that you think all of the blame lies on the player.

Hmmm, this is a tough one. For sure, there is fault on both sides. But let me ask you something - if there was a job available at your work that represented a big promotion (and a big raise to go with it) and your employers were encouraging you to apply, and that you'd have a really good chance at getting it - but you knew you weren't ready for that big job and that if you took it you would most likely fail and (as per the failure) lose your job (old and new) would you take the job? Or, would you politely decline and instead work with your employers to determine where your weaknesses are so you could improve on them and get ready so the next time that opportunity arose you'd be ready for it?

I've seen this scenario both ways in my line of work. You know what? I've never blamed the 'employer' for promoting a person before they were ready. And the people that have waited have had tremendous success once they knew they were ready.

JP should have told the Oilers in his rookie season that he wasn't ready. He should have request to go back to Finland. That's what Broberg (Sweden) has done. He know's he's not ready to come here yet.

So, IMO, bottom line, is you are responsible for your own career path. NOT someone else. Show me someone who points and says "Not me, their fault' I'll show you a loser every time.

That's my take anyway. To each their own

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I've bolded stupid reasons.

Having a learning disability wouldn't excuse him from responsibility. It just means that the cards are more heavily stacked against someone. I don't know how else to reconcile his failure to learn English and his continued immaturity. He's just not a smart dude, and he's very likely not even an average dude in terms of brain power.

I don't know how clean that slate really is given that the locker room is largely similar, some of the coaches are still here like Gulutzan, and hockey operations staff is still filled with people like Green and Howson. I get why he's so sour on the prospect of returning, but god is he ever handling it poorly.

I have no idea how intelligent he is or isn’t but we agree he is handling extremely poorly.

 

[Aerrol]

Sorry, really the notion that any has a better career than Kurri is completely odd. I can only assume you are younger and never really watched Kurri play. He was a consummate player, elite in both ends of the ice. Miles better than ANY current Finnish player.

The bolded, you should note, is probably a big reason why you touting Finland as an "elite hockey power" was such hyperbole. There have been lots of gaps in Finnish elite play and there will probably be again.

As per the bias against NA players, and increasing preference for Euro players that I stated, its immediately evident that several of the NA picks, that were picked later, are much better than any of the Finnish picks, which were picked high in 2016. Laine is a disorganized defensive joke. A reason your team doesn't ever get out of the first round. Pulju is a complete bust, obviously way overrated. Jury is out on the other high Finnish pick. Pretty clearly the draft didn't get it right in 2016. Pretty clearly Finnish prospects were for some reason drastically overrated.

Finally, why would I acknowledge a misrepresentation I didn't make. You seemingly didn't note the ambiguity of your stated position, and seemingly still don't. I've explicitly pointed out the inconsistency, you don't want to look at it, which is again fine.

I should know better than to expect you to admit you were wrong - if you got caught stating that water isn't wet, you'd deny you ever said such even when the quotes are thrown back in your face. You have a lot of interesting points, but your extreme obstinance really detracts from a lot of your better posting. Against my better judgment, here's a quote-by-quote list of the ways you've misrepresented things I've said so far in this thread:

1. I never stated Finland was an "Elite Hockey Power". You instead chose to focus on a editorialized title I linked for the examples of how Finland's hockey development program has demonstrated significant reforms. You have, ever since, tunnel-visioned on this title instead of actually responding to the things I have written on the subject. Not once have you actually responded to the substance of my point - that Finland has dramatically revamped how they develop their junior players and Canada has not. For example, you could easily have argued that this development model of focusing on the strengths of a junior player doesn't set them up well for adversity. I don't agree with that, but it'd actually be responding to my point. Instead, you repeatedly have made the false claim that I stated that Finland is a hockey superpower.

See: News Article: - Canadian draft, no, not about beer.

2. You quoted the following from me: "It was obvious before this he was failing to develop with coaching, and it was clear calling him back up from the AHL for Hitch was a dumb move"

And stated: "Literally everybody at the time was saying that Hitch was showing faith in Pulju, giving him a fresh chance, fresh start, and with prospects the constant line of thought has usually been give them chances, several, in the show, to experience it, grow into the NHL game, gain their confidence here etc. Virtually nothing was served in having this 4th pick player toil in the AHL."

This is another blatant falsehood. Here's a post from that time from me in response to Hitchcock bringing Jesse back up:

Player Discussion - Jesse Puljujarvi Part 3: Hard times

"Eugh. I really don't like it. I think it'd be better for all parties to give it at least a week or two more before calling him up. Let Pulju get into a real groove and build solid confidence. Let Hitchcock feel more comfortable with the overall team before he turns his attention to hopefully getting the team's most important prospect by far back on track. Rushing things just complicates the matter for everyone IMO."

In this short exchange today, you've managed to totally misrepresent things I've said twice. It's really frustrating and I wish you actually focused on what was said instead of tilting at windmills and forcing me to respond to things I've never stated.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I should know better than to expect you to admit you were wrong - if you got caught stating that water isn't wet, you'd deny you ever said such even when the quotes are thrown back in your face. You have a lot of interesting points, but your extreme obstinance really detracts from a lot of your better posting. Against my better judgment, here's a quote-by-quote list of the ways you've misrepresented things I've said so far in this thread:

1. I never stated Finland was an "Elite Hockey Power". You instead chose to focus on a editorialized title I linked for the examples of how Finland's hockey development program has demonstrated significant reforms. You have, ever since, tunnel-visioned on this title instead of actually responding to the things I have written on the subject. Not once have you actually responded to the substance of my point - that Finland has dramatically revamped how they develop their junior players and Canada has not. For example, you could easily have argued that this development model of focusing on the strengths of a junior player doesn't set them up well for adversity. I don't agree with that, but it'd actually be responding to my point. Instead, you repeatedly have made the false claim that I stated that Finland is a hockey superpower.

See: News Article: - Canadian draft, no, not about beer.

2. You quoted the following from me: "It was obvious before this he was failing to develop with coaching, and it was clear calling him back up from the AHL for Hitch was a dumb move"

And stated: "Literally everybody at the time was saying that Hitch was showing faith in Pulju, giving him a fresh chance, fresh start, and with prospects the constant line of thought has usually been give them chances, several, in the show, to experience it, grow into the NHL game, gain their confidence here etc. Virtually nothing was served in having this 4th pick player toil in the AHL."

This is another blatant falsehood. Here's a post from that time from me in response to Hitchcock bringing Jesse back up:

Player Discussion - Jesse Puljujarvi Part 3: Hard times

"Eugh. I really don't like it. I think it'd be better for all parties to give it at least a week or two more before calling him up. Let Pulju get into a real groove and build solid confidence. Let Hitchcock feel more comfortable with the overall team before he turns his attention to hopefully getting the team's most important prospect by far back on track. Rushing things just complicates the matter for everyone IMO."

In this short exchange today, you've managed to totally misrepresent things I've said twice. It's really frustrating and I wish you actually focused on what was said instead of tilting at windmills and forcing me to respond to things I've never stated.

For the record you're the one that started a tonedeaf nature of exchange when you were attempting to belittle my view in the Canadian draft thread. For instance;

"Second, picking on Laine and Pulju as examples for how Finnish draft improvement is overrated is amusing at best to me. For every Pulju, you can also find Canadians like Nolan Patrick, Ryan Strome, Sam Bennett, Griffin Reinhart, Erik Gudbranson, Luke Schenn, Cam Barker, and of course most famously, Alexandre Daigle"

What do you think my response would be to that kind of dig, or the several ones since?

SEVERAL times in this thread I gave you an out. I said its OK, its OK to disagree. But if you really continue to engage in this attempt at blame shifting or whatever you're doing than I'm very quickly losing patience with your responses.

In discussion it isn't just a matter of how YOU see things. Until now point out how I was as unpleasant as you are being in response.

You engage in blatant attack, ad hominin comments, and comment liberally on my posting while ignoring your tone all in the same post. wow.

I could respond to all your points, and in depth, but not if the exchange is like this.

 

[scotchtapejr]

You better be grasping at paper and not plastic straws, Drivesatl.

But, chill. Maybe log off for a few hours.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You better be grasping at paper and not plastic straws, Drivesatl.

But, chill. Maybe log off for a few hours.

Maybe because I didn't grow up in the internet age of constant put downs I don't see something like the comments made as anything but offensive.

This started in this thread harmlessly enough with Aerrol making the very odd statement that it was really dumb of Hitch to call up Pulju. I suppose it'll be claimed I'm making this up as well.

He doesn't substantiate that view at all, doesn't apparently think that its only his opinion, rather than Hitch making a dumb move, as Aerrol claimed.

I merely defended that Hitch's call up was reasonable, from a HOF calibre coach. I indicated its common for new coaches or even incumbent ones to call such a prospect up which is essentially done to give them a chance, not to disrupt their development.

Aerrol made the claim that it was dumb for Hitch to callup Pulju. That IS a revisionist opinion. What if the call up had worked? What then. Is it Hitch's fault he didn't entirely realize how useless a number 4 pick would be? Aerrol ASSUMED that my claim was that revisionism was going on in HIS posting. That's not what was stated or implied. Its revisionist, as a rule, to look at something months later, knowing the results, and then call something dumb. Especially when its involving a coach that's worthy of more respect than that.

Not sure how I could be more clear.

 

[scotchtapejr]

Awe, its ok little buddy.

 

[Goldmember]

Jesses case just reminds me of the fact that lots of scouts dont have a clue what they are doing.
I also criticized his agent but it seems this is all on Jesse. What a shame. Usually finns are known as humble and hard working players. I am very disappointed.

 

[Bangers]

What bull****.

Edmonton has great springs and falls.

Lots of sunshine and long days.

The 'good' weather starts in May and goes till the end of October.

That's five to six months of a great outdoors. November is skiing weather and then the big freeze sets in for December, January and February. Then it breaks up in March.

Edmonton even get the odd Calgary Chinook that brings the temp above zero in those three bad months.

So the additional 3 months where the weather in Edmonton is "great" (heavily subjective, btw, the last time I was in Canada in May I was freezing) also coincide with the NHL off season, which once again, most players are gone for. And I'm guessing the average NHL player doesn't give one crap about ski season, since a) there isn't that much time off during the season, and b) I'm guessing most NHL contracts put clauses in prohibiting that kind of activity.

Hey, I get it. You like Edmonton, and whether it's due to you being from there or choosing to make it your home, that's great for you.

But if you're a young, rich single guy with no ties to the area, you're going to give it a wide berth. Which apparently most players do, as it is consistently on most player's NM lists.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

So the additional 3 months where the weather in Edmonton is "great" (heavily subjective, btw, the last time I was in Canada in May I was freezing) also coincide with the NHL off season, which once again, most players are gone for. And I'm guessing the average NHL player doesn't give one crap about ski season, since a) there isn't that much time off during the season, and b) I'm guessing most NHL contracts put clauses in prohibiting that kind of activity.

Hey, I get it. You like Edmonton, and whether it's due to you being from there or choosing to make it your home, that's great for you.

But if you're a young, rich single guy with no ties to the area, you're going to give it a wide berth. Which apparently most players do, as it is consistently on most player's NM lists.

I didn't say I liked it or didn't like it. I described it.

I called you out on your bullshit post. Now I see you are changing your tune. Predictable.

 

[Bangers]

I didn't say I liked it or didn't like it. I described it.

I called you out on your bull**** post. Now I see you are changing your tune. Predictable.

Both posts have exactly the same 'tune'. I posted that Edmonton is not a great place for a young NHL player. Feel free to point out where that is not the case. I'll wait...

 

[Drivesaitl]

So the additional 3 months where the weather in Edmonton is "great" (heavily subjective, btw, the last time I was in Canada in May I was freezing) also coincide with the NHL off season, which once again, most players are gone for. And I'm guessing the average NHL player doesn't give one crap about ski season, since a) there isn't that much time off during the season, and b) I'm guessing most NHL contracts put clauses in prohibiting that kind of activity.

Hey, I get it. You like Edmonton, and whether it's due to you being from there or choosing to make it your home, that's great for you.

But if you're a young, rich single guy with no ties to the area, you're going to give it a wide berth. Which apparently most players do, as it is consistently on most player's NM lists.

Substantiation that Edmonton is on most players NM lists and that this is available information. You are citing this as fact. Is it?

Not really great form either to correct Edmontonians on what weather is like here on the basis of a visit in May.

Hey it snowed in Texas in June, on the selective basis of that I know all about the weather there despite never visiting there or doing any research....

In anycase May, June, July, August, September, October are pretty comfortable weather months. That's 6. We increasingly get above average or even above zero temps in winter months at times.

Rather live here than in a hellhole like Arizona where its too hot to even go outside for 5-6mths of the year.

You can easily adapt to cold and put on winter gear. What do you do when the outside temperature is 47C (dangerous and potentially lethal) put on personal airconditioning scuba suits?


"Days of Hot Weather in Phoenix

Nearly every day during summer, the temperature in Phoenix tops 99°F."

Sounds like infernal combusting hell to me for several months of the year.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Both posts have exactly the same 'tune'. I posted that Edmonton is not a great place for a young NHL player. Feel free to point out where that is not the case. I'll wait...

Your first foray into the sidebar was that I "Cherry picked" 2mths out of Edmonton's calendar as if anything else, and sublime events and festivals don't exist here throughout the year. You ignored correction that by no means was it cherry picking.

You've been called on inaccuracy, which is fine, it happens.

 

[Bangers]

Substantiation that Edmonton is on most players NM lists and that this is available information. You are citing this as fact. Is it?

Not really great form either to correct Edmontonians on what weather is like here on the basis of a visit in May.

Hey it snowed in Texas in June, on the selective basis of that I know all about the weather there despite never visiting there or doing any research....

In anycase May, June, July, August, September, October are pretty comfortable weather months. That's 6. We increasingly get above average or even above zero temps in winter months at times.

Rather live here than in a hellhole like Arizona where its too hot to even go outside for 5-6mths of the year.

You can easily adapt to cold and put on winter gear. What do you do when the outside temperature is 47C (dangerous and potentially lethal) put on personal airconditioning scuba suits?

I lived in Edmonton for close to 20 years, so I'm not basing my experience on 'one trip to Edmonton in May', and the main reason I left was because I absolutely abhorred the winters.

If you've been in Edmonton for the previous 6 months, March/April weather in Edmonton feels great. If not, it may not be as great as you think it is. That's why I said it's heavily subjective.

And as for the Arizona argument, come on dude, you're a better poster than that; no need to throw in a random non sequitur.

Also, if you want substantiation on the fact that Edmonton is on most players' NM lists, it took me all of a half second to find this:

Report: Oilers, Jets top NHLers' no-trade lists - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Bangers]

Your first foray into the sidebar was that I "Cherry picked" 2mths out of Edmonton's calendar as if anything else, and sublime events and festivals don't exist here throughout the year. You ignored correction that by no means was it cherry picking.

You've been called on inaccuracy, which is fine, it happens.

You did. You used the biggest summer festivals in Edmonton and a picture of the Rockies in the summer as an example of why Edmonton is a great place for NHL players to live, while ignoring the fact that, while those may appeal to you as your average every day Joe Edmonton, they mean literally nothing to an NHLer not from Edmonton.

Still not seeing the inaccuracy or being "called on my bull****". In fact, I'd say the theme of my posts has been pretty consistent.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You did. You used the biggest summer festivals in Edmonton and a picture of the Rockies in the summer as an example of why Edmonton is a great place for NHL players to live, while ignoring the fact that, while those may appeal to you as your average every day Joe Edmonton, they mean literally nothing to an NHLer not from Edmonton.

Still not seeing the inaccuracy or being "called on my bull****". In fact, I'd say the theme of my posts has been pretty consistent.

What I cited is what is occurring now in Edmonton, what is available in present tense, not to be disingenuous, but that its whats going on now. Stuff is going on all year round. Great things to do all year round.

Edmonton is a playground winter or summer and highly attractive and even as a place to live, as the fastest growing major city in Canada indicates.

I didn't say bullshit or anything like that. I stated inaccuracy, and I think I'm being pleasant enough.

btw this is Banff in Winter. Absolutely wondrous, gorgeous. Does it matter what time of year?

 

[RandomGuy79]

There is nothing really wrong with Edmonton, but let's be honest it's not one of the top North American cities. Especially for people in the upper income tax brackets.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I lived in Edmonton for close to 20 years, so I'm not basing my experience on 'one trip to Edmonton in May', and the main reason I left was because I absolutely abhorred the winters.

If you've been in Edmonton for the previous 6 months, March/April weather in Edmonton feels great. If not, it may not be as great as you think it is. That's why I said it's heavily subjective.

And as for the Arizona argument, come on dude, you're a better poster than that; no need to throw in a random non sequitur.

Also, if you want substantiation on the fact that Edmonton is on most players' NM lists, it took me all of a half second to find this:

Report: Oilers, Jets top NHLers' no-trade lists - Sportsnet.ca

Thanks for finding that citation. So good on you, I'll consider myself wrong, corrected, and back down on that point. That said, its agents statements, some of whom have had some adverse relationships with the former Edmonton management and possibly some axe to grind.

But again you provided citation, thank you.

 

[Bangers]

What I cited is what is occurring now in Edmonton, what is available in present tense, not to be disingenuous, but that its whats going on now. Stuff is going on all year round. Great things to do all year round.

Edmonton is a playground winter or summer and highly attractive and even as a place to live, as the fastest growing major city in Canada indicates.

I'm dealing in facts and you're giving us made up comments about Edmonton being on every players NM clause.

I didn't say bull**** or anything like that. I stated inaccuracy, and I think I'm being pleasant enough.

btw this is Banff in Winter. Absolutely wondrous, gorgeous. Does it matter what time of year?

Replying to the bolded, see the link in my previous post.

And the last time I checked, Banff =/= Edmonton. Between games, practice, training, physio sessions, recuperation time and nights out with friends/teammates/family/gfs, how often do you think the average Oiler gets to Banff (with the exception of Smytty back in the day)?

Edit: you replied while I was writing this, so you can disregard my first point.

 

[guymez]

Both posts have exactly the same 'tune'. I posted that Edmonton is not a great place for a young NHL player. Feel free to point out where that is not the case. I'll wait...

Its a tricky subject.
I think everything you have posted was entirely reasonable and accurate.
That said there are a few hard core boosters that just dont want to hear an opinion like that and you will get attacked for it..

 

[guymez]

Like clockwork. I've said again and again that there's also fault in Puljujarvi. I admit I've gone to details only rarely and maybe too rarely, but I've done it at least a few times anyway. No-one is perfect and that applies to myself, too, but the ones who almost never see anything wrong in the organization shouldn't be the ones blaming me for seeing things from only one side.

At least I haven't tried to affect others' opinions and comments for ages, but when I write here (once in several weeks lately) I get posts that make me feel unwelcome. Puljujarvi's been called an idiot, lazy, stubborn and all kinds of things over here and some of that rage and hatred spills over posters like myself. I mean look at the name of this thread, it's even funny it's come to this. I actually came here to find out how to delete my account and thought I'd write once more.

The fact is I don't know exactly what's going on. What I know is Puljujarvi hasn't played as well as I hoped at times and when he's done I haven't always been happy with the reward or lack of it. Whether it's being immature or lack of development, but of course he could've done his part better.

But I am not suprised it's come to this as I thought McLellan did just the right things to hurt his development. I feel McLellan made Pulju a kind of a scapegoat in the team and Puljujarvi has trouble in breaking away from that even when McLellan is gone. I honestly hoped things would've gone differently, but at the same time I have my reasons to believe Puljujarvi has pretty strong reasons to ask for a change of scenary.

I would suggest that you have a very strong bias and that bias is for the player. I s=dont think that all the blame falls on Jesse but I do think that most of the blame does.
I think that based on the evidence thats the only realistic conclusion that can be arrived at.

 

[Bangers]

Its a tricky subject.
I think everything you have posted was entirely reasonable and accurate.
That said there are a few hard core boosters that just dont want to hear an opinion like that and you will get attacked for it..

I feel like I've derailed this Puljuharvi thread far enough. Back to the topic at hand ...

Puljuarvi sucks.

Edit: Bloody hell, how did my phone autocorrect Puljujarvi two incorrect ways in one post.

 

[guymez]

I'll chime in: a professional organization full of people who have been in the industry for decades are supposed to be more mature and make better decisions than a foreign teenager who probably has a learning disability.

A learning disability? You state this like its a fact. How exactly do you know this to be true?
Also...what specifically should the team have done differently?

 

[harpoon]

Good ol’ JP, providing the fans of Edmonton with stuff to talk about in the deadest days of the year. He’s even got us talking about geography, weather and education. Bless that boy. Can’t wait for part four.

 

[Oilhawks]

Any way we could stop with the location discussions? It’s a subjective topic that only leads to arguments and has been beaten to death.

The merits of its actual effects on some / many hockey players and their families has been duly noted.