jukon
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- Mar 17, 2011
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Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft.
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BodaciousBeefBazooka
Go Leafs Go
I like what the Oilers have done this off-season with the talent they added. Should be exciting.
Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
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Over a season ago. And even back then he did not play that way nearly as much as he did early in his career.
Draiskull
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Why not?
Whaaat?? Is it really??
I dont even care about all the first overalls we have ruined.. The reason for me being skeptical is the other consensus top 5 pick we drafted in 2009.
big size, blazing speed and a name that sounded a lot like Puljujarvi.
"4. Atlanta Thrashers: Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson, LW, Timra (SEL)
Keep an eye on the guy that announcers, for sake of brevity, refer to as MPS. Widely considered a lock for the top-five since an impressive performance at the World Juniors, there are now whispers that he could drop several slots. Wishful thinking on the part of some scouts at the lower end of the lottery and beyond? Could be. I still think he's too intriguing a package to slip. MPS's game is all about speed. The kid is a burner, Mike Gartner-style. He blazes up and down the wings, blowing by defenders and driving hard to the net where he's capable of fooling netminders with a variety of shots. He'll be a first-line winger in this league no matter where he lands."
That´s really a solid and valid reason right there...
we´ll see in a few months, you guys will be positively surprised
Aceboogie
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- Aug 25, 2012
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There is legit concerns with any prospect. Hell "Prospect X has best shot since Stamkos and could very well be next 50 goal scorer in NHL". That described Yakupov and also could for Laine.
Here are 2 scouting reports:
One is Pierre luc Dubios, one is Nino Niederreiter.
The big difference between MPS and JP is that JP has a great shot and isnt afraid to use it. JP is also an elite playmaker. I wont lie, I saw this link very early on and was worried (simialr name, both big fast guys). But watch any MPS highlight video from when he was a prospect, he almost never used his shot. He went up and down the wing with blazing speed but rarely made great plays to teammates himself. JPs playmaking is his bread and butter, he is incredibly smart and can make plays by stopping up, or make plays at the highest speed. JP also has a killer instinct and plays on the edge at all times. Even just highlight watching youll see a major, major difference between them
MPS lacked offensive IQ or a killer instinct. He played the game almost like Hall where he only had one direction (up ice), and plays he made were caused by his speed, not his smarts. Where he differed from Hall is that Hall has a killer instinct and better hands
Draft picks are all random, and develop randomly.
There's always a huge risk of a 10th overall turning into MPS.
There's not a lot of chance a 10th overall turns into an offensive Dynamo.
Here's the forwards taken at #10 over the last 20 years.
Mikko Rantanen
Nick Ritchie
Valeri Nichushkin
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson (not too far from the median draft pick IMHO).
Cody Hodgson
Michael Frolik
Andrei Kostitsyn
Eric Nystrom
Mikhail Yakubov
Nikolai Antropov
Radek Dvorak
Here's the list of 3rd overalls:
Dylan Strome
Leon Draisaitl
Jonathan Drouin
Alex Galchenyuk
Jonathan Huberdeau
Matt Duchene
Kyle Turris
Jonathan Toews
Nathan Horton
Alexandr Svitov
Marian Gaborik
Henrik Sedin
Olli Jokinen
J.P. Dumont
A notable step up in the median players, with a few Art Ross/All-Stars/Hart/Selke/Smyth winners.
There's a good to great chance PoolParty ends up a lot better than MPS
There's always a huge risk of a 10th overall turning into MPS.
There's not a lot of chance a 10th overall turns into an offensive Dynamo.
Here's the forwards taken at #10 over the last 20 years.
Mikko Rantanen
Nick Ritchie
Valeri Nichushkin
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson (not too far from the median draft pick IMHO).
Cody Hodgson
Michael Frolik
Andrei Kostitsyn
Eric Nystrom
Mikhail Yakubov
Nikolai Antropov
Radek Dvorak
Here's the list of 3rd overalls:
Dylan Strome
Leon Draisaitl
Jonathan Drouin
Alex Galchenyuk
Jonathan Huberdeau
Matt Duchene
Kyle Turris
Jonathan Toews
Nathan Horton
Alexandr Svitov
Marian Gaborik
Henrik Sedin
Olli Jokinen
J.P. Dumont
A notable step up in the median players, with a few Art Ross/All-Stars/Hart/Selke/Smyth winners.
There's a good to great chance PoolParty ends up a lot better than MPS
jukon
NHL Point Leader
- Mar 17, 2011
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That´s really a solid and valid reason right there...
we´ll see in a few months, you guys will be positively surprised
It's not about being skeptical, it's about realistic expectations. No need to start making statements like.
But 3rd Overalls tend to have long productive careers, many of them as elite stars in this league.
Someone actually compared a 3rd overall, to a 10th overall because their names are similar.
Realistically nearly all 10th overalls have struggled to gain any kind of traction in this league for the past 20+ years.
Being a hockey fan in Edmonton seems to have taken it´s toll if realism is saying a talent like Pulju will be anything but really good.
I don't think it's unrealistic to say Puljujärvi is the second best Oiler prospect this millennium. Hall was arguably better but they are definitely close. I prefer Puljujärvi to any of Draisaitl, Nuge and Yakupov.
Puljujärvi is a high-end prospect. Teams rarely get to draft a player his caliber at 4th overall.
Aceboogie
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I dont think its a stretch at all to think Pulujarvi is the second best prospect picked by Edmonton. For me its between him and Hall. Hall was #1 pick and dominated in OHL, plus super good WJC. But even at draft hockey sense was a bit of a concern ( that would limit him from being elite star, but wouldnt hold him back from being a top NHL player)
Puljujarvi is harder to gauge because he was playing in a pro league and on one of the better teams. His TOI and quality of comp is vastly different than Halls. So tough to compare straight up numbers. In WJCs (small, small sample size) Puljujarvi did do slightly better fwiw.
Going from tools:
Size: Puljuarvi
Speed: Hall
Skating: Pretty even when taking into account overall agility
Smarts: Puljuarvi rountinely gets praised for high, high hockey sense. Hall had killer instinct, Pulj has questions about whether he will be a high level finisher in NHL
Shot: Pretty even. Hall had an elite shot coming in, but was regarded as more of a power shot versus an accurate one. Puljujarvi has same critiques (that he is growing into body and shot is more powerful than accurate)
Hands: Pulj
If you go by tools, you could make argument his tools are above Halls at same age and could make him better if he can put them all together.
As for RNH and Yak (and even LD), he is a combo of all 3 almost. Yak and RNH were both weaker #1s and had noticeable holes in game (size for RNH, smarts for Yak). Puljujarvi is like a combo of both those guys best features, but 6'4.
LD had similar great tools, but his skating was a big ?. Pulujarvi is like a bigger, better skating LD who likes to shoot more
Puljujarvi is harder to gauge because he was playing in a pro league and on one of the better teams. His TOI and quality of comp is vastly different than Halls. So tough to compare straight up numbers. In WJCs (small, small sample size) Puljujarvi did do slightly better fwiw.
Going from tools:
Size: Puljuarvi
Speed: Hall
Skating: Pretty even when taking into account overall agility
Smarts: Puljuarvi rountinely gets praised for high, high hockey sense. Hall had killer instinct, Pulj has questions about whether he will be a high level finisher in NHL
Shot: Pretty even. Hall had an elite shot coming in, but was regarded as more of a power shot versus an accurate one. Puljujarvi has same critiques (that he is growing into body and shot is more powerful than accurate)
Hands: Pulj
If you go by tools, you could make argument his tools are above Halls at same age and could make him better if he can put them all together.
As for RNH and Yak (and even LD), he is a combo of all 3 almost. Yak and RNH were both weaker #1s and had noticeable holes in game (size for RNH, smarts for Yak). Puljujarvi is like a combo of both those guys best features, but 6'4.
LD had similar great tools, but his skating was a big ?. Pulujarvi is like a bigger, better skating LD who likes to shoot more
bobbythebrain
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- Jul 30, 2016
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You forgot McDavid, so that drops him down a spot.
What about Ebs? Is JP gonna produce as consistently and as independently as Eberle. If he does that well, we should all be ecstatic.
Speed220DChalavan
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Aceboogie
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Well obviously below McDavid
1. McDavid
2.Pulj/Hall (for the record Ill go with Hall just because of his draft year numbers)
Eberle was a late 1st round pick who was a pretty big long shot to get where he is. At time of draft id rank him around our 11th best prospect weve picked in last 10 years
McDavid
Hall
Puljujarvi
RNH
Drasaitl
Yak
Gagner/MPS
Nurse
Klefbom/Eberle
But if Puljujarvi can produce at Eberles numbers, while playing a good 2 way game, we should be happy. However a really good comparison for him interms of style and upside is Blake Wheeler. And if development goes really well, maybe Hossa
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
bobbythebrain
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I wouldn't say that, or discount PLD. His upside has been rated higher than JP and he was ranked 21st in Sept and went 3rd overall. I can't think of a prospect ever who has made such a climb in the draft.
Speed220DChalavan
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Debatable. PLD has Jamie Benn written all over him.
MPS was consistently in the top 5 rankings - but dropped to 9th.
At end of day, you can't make exceptions. Puljujarvi was 4th OV.
bobbythebrain
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Yes, I'm sure they were. I've had this discussion before so just to be clear, not how big they jumped from the year previous. The same year, from Sept to draft. PLD climbed the rankings and ended up 3rd. Again, I can't think of a player who did so much in a single season and ended up as high as he did
Aerchon
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- Jul 20, 2011
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On the MPS comparisons.
This is something that worried me greatly but the more you look into it the more it seems incredibly unlikely they are even remotely similar players.
The sheer intensity and passion that JP has over MPS makes me believe he will succeed in the NHL.
JP is well known for being the total package where as MPS was primarily speed wide. Shot and hockey IQ significantly better for JP.
MPS had his hype and you still have to be worried a tiny bit JP could end up the same way but... Most hockey pundits seem to think JP, even after dropping to 4th, was still at least the 3rd best prospect and potentially 2nd in an extremely strong top 5 set of forwards.
I was far more concerned with taking Tkachuk and ending up with another Gagner type in that his numbers were greatly inflated by his line mates and skating is a concern. Even that went away eventually tho. Tkachuk should have gone 5th. A solid prospect as well that alleviated concerns.
Dubios is a great prospect and if he does become a center by that merit alone he will potentially be a bigger impact player than an elite winger like JP. I personally wanted him over Tkachuk although it was close.
As prospects go tho, I don't think anyone can really claim JP was anything other than the consensus #3 guy. The amount of people upset the Oilers "won" the lottery again is a simple way to "prove" the validity of that statement.
Even Leon had, NHL size/skills and "should" be NHL ready but many had doubts.
I don't think I've heard anyone say anything but that JP is 100% NHL ready. That's rare.
This is something that worried me greatly but the more you look into it the more it seems incredibly unlikely they are even remotely similar players.
The sheer intensity and passion that JP has over MPS makes me believe he will succeed in the NHL.
JP is well known for being the total package where as MPS was primarily speed wide. Shot and hockey IQ significantly better for JP.
MPS had his hype and you still have to be worried a tiny bit JP could end up the same way but... Most hockey pundits seem to think JP, even after dropping to 4th, was still at least the 3rd best prospect and potentially 2nd in an extremely strong top 5 set of forwards.
I was far more concerned with taking Tkachuk and ending up with another Gagner type in that his numbers were greatly inflated by his line mates and skating is a concern. Even that went away eventually tho. Tkachuk should have gone 5th. A solid prospect as well that alleviated concerns.
Dubios is a great prospect and if he does become a center by that merit alone he will potentially be a bigger impact player than an elite winger like JP. I personally wanted him over Tkachuk although it was close.
As prospects go tho, I don't think anyone can really claim JP was anything other than the consensus #3 guy. The amount of people upset the Oilers "won" the lottery again is a simple way to "prove" the validity of that statement.
Even Leon had, NHL size/skills and "should" be NHL ready but many had doubts.
I don't think I've heard anyone say anything but that JP is 100% NHL ready. That's rare.
teravaineSAROS
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- Jul 29, 2015
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Obviously Pulju is very unlikely to be as bad as MPS, but i can see the concern.
Pulju's VO2max was exceptional early in his draft year beating almost any NHLer, being a great skater despite the size and growth spurt. He's a freak of nature physically and I wonder if that leaves less left for him to grow on compared to other draftees??
Pulju's VO2max was exceptional early in his draft year beating almost any NHLer, being a great skater despite the size and growth spurt. He's a freak of nature physically and I wonder if that leaves less left for him to grow on compared to other draftees??
teravaineSAROS
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snipes
How cold? I’m ice cold.
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Comparing Pulju to MPS because they have "järvi" as a suffix is silly. Järvi is a a very common suffix for Swedish/Finnish surnames, I believe it means something like "lake". Maybe some of our Finnish friends can expand on this.
It would be like the common last name prefix "O'____" or "Mc____" for the Irish, or "Mac______" for the Scottish.
It would be like the common last name prefix "O'____" or "Mc____" for the Irish, or "Mac______" for the Scottish.
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