Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 20 - Second line centre edition?

[Ozmodiar]

these are the 3 areas where I’d like to see improvement.

and space against NHL Ds. He corners himself into having to make a quick decision

… hesitation after gaining the blue line resulting in turnovers. Dom eventually asked for more of a dump and chase approach.

He falls 60% of the time on board battles

I don’t know about 60, but it’s a lot. Still many non contact falls too.

He misses assignments and this is the number 1 reason why Ducharme is being hard on him.

… yes, often an over pursuit of the puck, leaving someone open.

 

[417]

Look no further that the last playoff run. That was the strategy and it worked all the way to the finals.

Look at the Devils with Brodeur?

I think the last playoff run was a collection of circumstances…I don’t think it was a strategy that is a winning one through an 82 game schedule plus playoffs.

we’ve got more than enough evidence to support that.

 

[417]

If his assignment is to cover for missed assignments on both wings simultaneously, he will miss some for sure.

Joking aside, he does miss some assignments, but so did Evans (four years older) and Staal, the latter a lot!

By all means work with him. But benching him when he had 5 playoff goals, all important ones, was a head scratcher. Bad omen.

Even Danault missed assignments…too many people getting caught up in score vision.

It’s like some forget during our playoff run that many of the top players the Habs faced, who had trouble scoring, actually got several grade A scoring chances.

It’s just that for the most part…Price was ready to bail them out.

while Danault seems to get all of the credit for shutting down Matthews/Marner/Connor/Stone etc

Price played the biggest factor in all of that.

there’s a weird phenomenon here with KK…it’s like he’s expected to put up 50+ points, play flawless defensive hockey, never lose a face off, all while playing with the coldest wingers, on the 3rd line for 14 mins a game and not to mention with the shortest leash from the coaching staff.

we expect perfection from KK and much less from everyone else

 

[BLONG7]

The clear strategy was big boys that force things to the outside. They valued Staal cause he listened to instructions (like it or not). I felt like we should have given KK more of a shot as well but I always try to figure out what the coaches are dealing with behind the scenes. Ducharme is not an idiot so there are reasons

Consistency and more of a power game is what KK needs to focus on. His offensive skills are there.

This season is go time..........the kid needs a real chance, with good wingers, for more than 3 games.....the defensive game can be taught....this is on him. He needs to step up...the coaches also have to step up, and give him 20-25 games in a bigger role. ( My god, Danault went 50 plus games with one empty net goal, and went unnoticed by most )
As you say his offensive skills are there....but I really think, lost in all this banter, one huge things has gotten missed..................................his age...he just turned 21 last month. No, I don't think he will be as good as Suzuki, but at 21 most of the C's in the league were right where KK is now, and maybe even not even in the league.
Rushing him the way the habs did, really made no sense....in the big picture.
They did, and here we are....I really think we have a very good player on our hands....
Another........stay tuned, we will know soon.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think the last playoff run was a collection of circumstances…I don’t think it was a strategy that is a winning one through an 82 game schedule plus playoffs.

we’ve got more than enough evidence to support that.

The strategy of playing good defense in front of Price with a good counter attack was the exact reason why we went on the run. It was clearly about defense and not sure what I can say to you if you don't see that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This season is go time..........the kid needs a real chance, with good wingers, for more than 3 games.....the defensive game can be taught....this is on him. He needs to step up...the coaches also have to step up, and give him 20-25 games in a bigger role. ( My god, Danault went 50 plus games with one empty net goal, and went unnoticed by most )
As you say his offensive skills are there....but I really think, lost in all this banter, one huge things has gotten missed..................................his age...he just turned 21 last month. No, I don't think he will be as good as Suzuki, but at 21 most of the C's in the league were right where KK is now, and maybe even not even in the league.
Rushing him the way the habs did, really made no sense....in the big picture.
They did, and here we are....I really think we have a very good player on our hands....
Another........stay tuned, we will know soon.

If we make no more moves, the opportunity of more usage of KK is there for him to take for sure.

 

[salbutera]

KK sat out in the finals simply because he was getting manhandled off the puck but the TBay D, whereas Staal & his line was the only Habs line to continually cycle the puck down low the entirety of the playoffs, combined w Staal’s experience factor

MB even said in his post playoff PC, KK needs to focus & play a North / South game otherwise he gets into difficulty- but in order to do so he needs to get stronger (chicken & egg).

KK has a solid stretch then physically wears down, leading to falling all over the ice & getting manhandled

 

[Chr1s97]

Even Danault missed assignments…too many people getting caught up in score vision.

It’s like some forget during our playoff run that many of the top players the Habs faced, who had trouble scoring, actually got several grade A scoring chances.

It’s just that for the most part…Price was ready to bail them out.

while Danault seems to get all of the credit for shutting down Matthews/Marner/Connor/Stone etc

Price played the biggest factor in all of that.

there’s a weird phenomenon here with KK…it’s like he’s expected to put up 50+ points, play flawless defensive hockey, never lose a face off, all while playing with the coldest wingers, on the 3rd line for 14 mins a game and not to mention with the shortest leash from the coaching staff.

we expect perfection from KK and much less from everyone else

KK still a young player nobody on here expect him to be perfect thats not true, the thing is that after 3 seasons in the league as a 3rd OA we expect him to show progression in his game, big improvement or little improvement doesnt matter as long as he show progression in his game.(decision making speed, skating, strentgh, etc.)

As of now he still the same kid that we drafted 3years ago. No progression, makin the same plays game after game. He still havent found his identity(will he be a good playmaker/sniper or both, will he be a good 2 way center, etc.) at some im even questionning his understanding of the game.

I still believe that he can become an effectif player in this league but its on him to do what he have to do to reach this step. This gon be a big year for him. He had all the opportunity to prove what he can bring(Ice time, Good winger, 2nd PP unit, mostly start his shift in the O-zone, he doesnt play against the best shutdown line)

People need to stop finding excuses for his lack of progression and KK need to step up his game or atleast show progression some how in some area of his game this year.

 

[salbutera]

KK still a young player nobody on here expect him to be perfect thats not true, the thing is that after 3 seasons in the league as a 3rd OA we expect him to show progression in his game, big improvement or little improvement doesnt matter as long as he show progression in his game.(decision making speed, skating, strentgh, etc.)

As of now he still the same kid that we drafted 3years ago. No progression, makin the same plays game after game. He still havent found his identity(will he be a good playmaker/sniper or both, will he be a good 2 way center, etc.) at some im even questionning his understanding of the game.

I still believe that he can become an effectif player in this league but its on him to do what he have to do to reach this step. This gon be a big year for him. He had all the opportunity to prove what he can bring(Ice time, Good winger, 2nd PP unit, mostly start his shift in the O-zone, he doesnt play against the best shutdown line)

People need to stop finding excuses for his lack of progression and KK need to step up his game or atleast show progression some how in some area of his game this year.

That’s the issue that needs to be overcome - 3OA means nothing unless said draft class is deep.

Unfortunately for Habs the last 2-times they’ve had a 3OA the depth just hasn’t been there in the draft cuvée.

2012 was one of the worst draft classes for top-5 high end talent in the last 25-years, and 2018 was not much better as talent level dropped off considerably after 2OA (Svechnikov) - to no surprise, since that’s what all the pundits predicted pre-draft.

Tkachuk is a rough & rugged 25G scorer & Hughes is a rover vs a real top pairing Dman given he’s a defensive sieve

 

[Chr1s97]

That’s the issue that needs to be overcome - 3OA means nothing unless said draft class is deep.

Unfortunately for Habs the last 2-times they’ve had a 3OA the depth just hasn’t been there in the draft cuvée.

2012 was one of the worst draft classes for top-5 high end talent in the last 25-years, and 2018 was not much better as talent level dropped off considerably after 2OA (Svechnikov) - to no surprise, since that’s what all the pundits predicted pre-draft.

Tkachuk is a rough & rugged 25G scorer & Hughes is a rover vs a real top pairing Dman given he’s a defensive sieve

So after all the text I write you gon only higlight the "3rd oa" part & say that it doesnt mean nothing he we shouldnt have high expectation because the cuvée was poor.
You kinda right tho but at the end of the day hes still a high draft pick and it come with expectation.
Anyway thats not the strong point of my post. I dont want to compare him to other rookies. I want to see progression, big or small progression in some areas of his game doesnt matter but I want to see progression. Since last year alot of people was already ready to get rid of Danault and play KK on the second like him being on the 3rd line was the reason of why he hasnt improve. Truth be told he had all the oppurtunity to show what he can do and hasnt live the expectation. People need to stop finding excuse for him and maybe accept the fact that he'll be a 3rd line C in his carreer(maybe not I still see potential to be a 2nd) but thats on him to step up.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

hands up how many of you wrote off Patches who started his NHL career a year older and looked worse and shown far less than KK did in his first 2 and a half seasons?

 

[Heffyhoof]

I mean... who would we want him to be playing with? He played with Toffoli and Armia for a healthy portion of the season. Both are pretty solid defensively and it didn't prevent him from having a pretty ordinary season. Anderson is the 2nd best goal scorer on this team. He slowed down drastically after being put with Kotkaniemi, this season.

At some point, guys like Hoffman and Drouin are not exactly experts in their own end neither. When Suzuki was paired with Anderson and Drouin, who by all means are not defensive wizards neither, he didn't seem to have any trouble getting the puck out of his zone. They were our most consistent line at the start of the season last year.

At some point, the guy will have to be a positive factor by himself, and not count on others to get the puck out of the zone for him and whatnot.

Kotkaniemi sucks at getting the puck out of his zone?

 

[Archijerej]

He's actually gotten worse. Like a lot of Habs' forwards, his offensive effectiveness peaked in his rookie season.

He was much more at ease and more creative in his rookie season.

 

[Archijerej]

I hope he can get it together, I wouldn't be mad at a big, strong, powerful 3rd line C.

I would be mad as hell. I can't handle any more Kostitsyns and Galchenyuks.

 

[Archijerej]

Can't believe how many flops Timmins drafted especially in the first round and yet still hasn't been fired and so many ppl defending him. The guy has more lives than a cat and I'm positive he can survive a nuclear bomb.

I'm as harsh a Timmins' critic as you will ever find, but I don’t think we've handled Kotkaniemi particularly well.

You draft a project, you admit on draft day that he's a project, and you start him in the NHL at 18?

 

[417]

The strategy of playing good defense in front of Price with a good counter attack was the exact reason why we went on the run. It was clearly about defense and not sure what I can say to you if you don't see that.

I mean playing good defense is part of any strategy lol

no team goes out there aiming to play bad defense.

What I questioned in your post was the logic behind spending that much money on goaltending (over 13M) and not to mention in defense-first Dmen (Weber, Chiarot, Edmunson, Savard) and still playing a defense-first system.

seems to me if you’re going to invest that much capital in your goaltending and defense…it should afford you to play more aggressively offensively with your forwards…

Thus not requiring the need to absolutely ice a lineup with an all-defensive Center playing 18 mins a game.

Either way…we’re straying away from the thread topic, so my bad.

 

[Kents polished head]

hands up how many of you wrote off Patches who started his NHL career a year older and looked worse and shown far less than KK did in his first 2 and a half seasons?

It took less than 123 games for Pacioretty to start showing signs of dominance, and he himself had an atypical progression. So yeah. Odds are not in Kotkaniemi's favor.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Galchenyuk and KK development over the years have been awful.

They should have let them play in the AHL prior to play them in the NHL.

Anyway, I remember being a fan of the selection of KK but 100% against the decision to play him in the NHL as a 18 years old.

I do think tough that KK is a better center than Galchenyuk ever was. He is way more committed defensively.

 

[salbutera]

So after all the text I write you gon only higlight the "3rd oa" part & say that it doesnt mean nothing he we shouldnt have high expectation because the cuvée was poor.
You kinda right tho but at the end of the day hes still a high draft pick and it come with expectation.
Anyway thats not the strong point of my post. I dont want to compare him to other rookies. I want to see progression, big or small progression in some areas of his game doesnt matter but I want to see progression. Since last year alot of people was already ready to get rid of Danault and play KK on the second like him being on the 3rd line was the reason of why he hasnt improve. Truth be told he had all the oppurtunity to show what he can do and hasnt live the expectation. People need to stop finding excuse for him and maybe accept the fact that he'll be a 3rd line C in his carreer(maybe not I still see potential to be a 2nd) but thats on him to step up.

That’s my point - there’s nothing wrong if KK tops out as an NHL regular 3C, since it’s becoming more evident there was no clear cut top line talent after Svechnikov in the projected top-10 of 2018 draft.

It’s not as if the Habs missed out on a Marner, Seth Jones or Pettersson by selecting KK ....that’s where context needs to come into play

 

[417]

It took less than 123 games for Pacioretty to start showing signs of dominance, and he himself had an atypical progression. So yeah. Odds are not in Kotkaniemi's favor.

Pacioretty starting showing signs of dominance when he got an actual opportunity to play with some talent night and night out in the top 6.

Prior to that..his usage looked a lot like KKs

3rd line…sometimes 4th line…healthy scratch.

y’all got short memories man

 

[417]

Galchenyuk and KK development over the years have been awful.

They should have let them play in the AHL prior to play them in the NHL.

Anyway, I remember being a fan of the selection of KK but 100% against the decision to play him in the NHL as a 18 years old.

I do think tough that KK is a better center than Galchenyuk ever was. He is way more committed defensively.

The experience he’s gained in the NHL the last 3 years is worth much more than anything he could have learned playing in the AHL during that time.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

The experience he’s gained in the NHL the last 3 years is worth much more than anything he could have learned playing in the AHL during that time.

I disagree but whatever. It's obvious has hit a wall after his first season. He looks the same player (albit a tad stronger) than he was at 18years AND even less creative.

The AHL is an incredible development league for young players, they learn to be pro and that they have to push their game a notch if they want to be called up.

The NHL is a survival league, you need to be consistent and perform or another player get your spot. KK has never had to push his game up only to limit his mistakes. Now he does not look like a top line center and it seems more like his career trajectory is a 3rd/4th line center with some offensive flair from time to time.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It took less than 123 games for Pacioretty to start showing signs of dominance, and he himself had an atypical progression. So yeah. Odds are not in Kotkaniemi's favor.

123 games starting at 20-21 years old is not the same as 123 games starting at 18 years old. Comparing the number of games is completely assinine, especially considering the number of forwards who hit their peak between 24-27 years old. Physical and mental maturity is far more important than just the experience.

 

[CHfan1]

Pacioretty starting showing signs of dominance when he got an actual opportunity to play with some talent night and night out in the top 6.

Prior to that..his usage looked a lot like KKs

3rd line…sometimes 4th line…healthy scratch.

y’all got short memories man

Also Pacioretty was 22 years old when he started to break out.

In Pacioretty’s 20 year old season he played 34 games and had 3 goals and 11 points. The next season he played 52 games and had 3 goals and 14 games.

 

[salbutera]

Galchenyuk and KK development over the years have been awful.

They should have let them play in the AHL prior to play them in the NHL.

Anyway, I remember being a fan of the selection of KK but 100% against the decision to play him in the NHL as a 18 years old.

I do think tough that KK is a better center than Galchenyuk ever was. He is way more committed defensively.

Galchenyuk either lacked the capacity to learn or the willingness to commit to learning.

KK has a significantly higher IQ, but doesn’t possess high end natural skill but as Edison said “Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration,”