Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck part II

[HabsQC]

He's dead to me

 

[Tripledeke333]

I feel like going to Carolina will hurt KKs development. He was given sheltered minutes in Montreal and may not get the same in Carolina. Further, I did not think he looked that good on wing. The best thing for KK would be to spend a half season or more in the AHL as a 1C to work on his game and then come up and be a 2C. With his $6M pay day, KK is expected to be a star and he is not their yet.

 

[jellybeans]

Brutal take, Danault dominated Mathews who had scored 12 goals in 25 playoff games which is almost a 40 goal pace despite almost exclusively being matched up against the greatest shutdown center of this generation in Patrice Bergeron for most of those games. He had also scored 7 goals in his last 12 playoff games prior to Danault shutting him down.

Then you arbitrarily assert that McDavid's points were all 5 on 5 and specifically against Danault.

Danault is an elite shut down center.......only those with the most blinding anti-Danault bias would argue otherwise. If you want to debate his offensive effectiveness then he is fair game but otherwise it is just a poorly orchestrated witch hunt.

Danault did a good job but its Price that shut down Matthews Danault is so over valued its crazy.

 

[jellybeans]

He's dead to me

I'm sure KK really cares.

 

[Belial]

No. No, it isn't.

He would be well advised to let people that he hired to do their job. Or, if he doesn't trust them, to replace them with someone he trusts.

I doubt it's Bergevin himself who decides if the guy is staying or not.

It was probably Julien's call that had the most weight at the end of the day.

 

[HabsQC]

I'm sure KK really cares.

I don't care if he cares, he's dead to me.

 

[Archijerej]

I doubt it's Bergevin himself who decides if the guy is staying or not.

It was probably Julien's call that had the most weight at the end of the day.

I understand the coach's perspective. It's in his best interest to have the strongest possible lineup on the ice. However, when it comes to choosing a development path of an 18 years old 3rd overall pick the ultimate decision lies with the GM and his development staff. It's his responsibility to consider the long term effects on a player and the team as a whole.

 

[McGees]

This vs kk 1 year contract lol

 

[Belial]

I understand the coach's perspective. It's in his best interest to have the strongest possible lineup on the ice. However, when it comes to choosing a development path of an 18 years old 3rd overall pick the ultimate decision lies with the GM and his development staff. It's his responsibility to consider the long term effects on a player and the team as a whole.

Sure but I find this discussion disingenuous, to be honest.

KK put up 34 points playing with Lehkonen and Armia in his rookie year!

He looked perfectly fine, after his first year no one really doubted that the decision to keep him with the big club was the right choice!

Now, all we hear is how they screwed him... Give me a break.

 

[Sorinth]

I understand the coach's perspective. It's in his best interest to have the strongest possible lineup on the ice. However, when it comes to choosing a development path of an 18 years old 3rd overall pick the ultimate decision lies with the GM and his development staff. It's his responsibility to consider the long term effects on a player and the team as a whole.

Agreed and it's also the GMs job to get the coach to buy into his vision. So if the GM wants to take a long term approach he needs to make sure the coach isn't being judged by his win/loss record but by how much players are improving.

 

[Belial]

Agreed and it's also the GMs job to get the coach to buy into his vision. So if the GM wants to take a long term approach he needs to make sure the coach isn't being judged by his win/loss record but by how much players are improving.

Players improved!

KK is the only one who regressed!

Maybe just maybe! I know it sounds crazy but maybe it's the player himself?

 

[Sorinth]

Players improved!

KK is the only one who regressed!

Maybe just maybe! I know it sounds crazy but maybe it's the player himself?

How many players improved while playing for Julien or Therrien for that matter? Danault, Suzuki, anyone else?

 

[Belial]

How many players improved while playing for Julien or Therrien for that matter? Danault, Suzuki, anyone else?

Gally, Petry, PK, Patioready, Byron, Tatar...

I mean... let's see your list of players that regressed?

Galchenyuk and KK?

Forgot about Scherbak...

 

[Sterling Archer]

KK will do well in Carolina because he will play on a wing instead of center and he will play with better players. I am pretty sure he will get 50 points and more this year.

Except he’s sucked on the wing when he’s played there.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Sure but I find this discussion disingenuous, to be honest.

KK put up 34 points playing with Lehkonen and Armia in his rookie year!

He looked perfectly fine, after his first year no one really doubted that the decision to keep him with the big club was the right choice!

Now, all we hear is how they screwed him... Give me a break.

He bombed his last two years and to hear it from Ramage, it was on KK not listening and doing what coaches asked him to do. That’s on the player, not the team.

 

[Belial]

He bombed his last two years and to hear it from Ramage, it was on KK not listening and doing what coaches asked him to do. That’s on the player, not the team.

The team could've probably tried something else, another approach, but I mean it's the NHL it's not kindergarten...

I thought his 4 fingers gesture to the crowd was funny all this time but now with more information, I realize that it was an immature and pure entitlement on his part.

It was basically a finger to the organization...

 

[CHfan1]

Except he’s sucked on the wing when he’s played there.

Didn’t he play 5 games or so there this season after having not played wing since before the NHL and having almost no practice time at it?

I know wing is easier than centre but it still takes time to learn a new position.

We’ll see how he does after a full training camp and preseason there.

 

[Sorinth]

Gally, Petry, PK, Patioready, Byron, Tatar...

I mean... let's see your list of players that regressed?

Galchenyuk and KK?

Forgot about Scherbak...

I disagree with pretty much that entire list, but regardless you actually highlighted the point by only listing 1 guy who came in as a prospect/rookie. If you were a prospect under MB you had to be exceptional to have a chance to develop. And even then that development is to go from 52 point player to a 55-60 point player who is better defensively then they were as a rookie.

 

[Belial]

I disagree with pretty much that entire list, but regardless you actually highlighted the point by only listing 1 guy who came in as a prospect/rookie. If you were a prospect under MB you had to be exceptional to have a chance to develop. And even then that development is to go from 52 point player to a 55-60 point player who is better defensively then they were as a rookie.

Ok man, I have no idea what exactly would satisfy you as proper development.

KK was sheltered as f***, he was getting decent linemates and PP time!

Everything was there for him to develop/progress!

Armia and Lehkonen are X10 better than anyone he would've got as linemates in Finland so don't start me with the bad linemates joke of an argument!

 

[KevSkillz4]

KK will be really good in Carolina and it's ok. We need money to sign Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Romanov, Norlinder if they reach their potential.

No doubt Bergevin wanted KK in Habs uniform for 2,5/3 millions per year for 2 years. I'm going to be happy for him if he become the player we drafted at #3, that's going to shut up some hater's of Timmins.

 

[Archijerej]

Agreed and it's also the GMs job to get the coach to buy into his vision. So if the GM wants to take a long term approach he needs to make sure the coach isn't being judged by his win/loss record but by how much players are improving.

Yes. Even considering the mandate from the owner to ice a competitive team after the disastrous 2017-18 season, Kotkaniemi was hardly a gamebraker. We were all excited, because he was 18, but I imagine that if Plekanec stayed for one more year, we wouldn't really see the difference in terms of effectiveness.

 

[Archijerej]

Just want him to crash and burn hard in Carolina and put them in an awkward spot of now having to keep him long term or lose him for nothing.

Can’t remember the last time I wanted an ex Hab to fail as bad as I do him. Fu*k KK.

That's the spirit!

 

[Doc McKenna]

Wow, that's not exactly an endorsement of Bergevin.

It also puts a little flavour on the "Its not beregevin, it timmins/coach/whoever" I think he personally interferes a lot more than many think. The only case that might not be true was with Therrien. But they had the same lousy foxhole mentality so it doesn't matter when they both would make the same terrible choices.

 

[OldCraig71]

It also puts a little flavour on the "Its not beregevin, it timmins/coach/whoever" I think he personally interferes a lot more than many think. The only case that might not be true was with Therrien. But they had the same lousy foxhole mentality so it doesn't matter when they both would make the same terrible choices.

MB is da man! This is his team!

 

[JianYang]

I feel like going to Carolina will hurt KKs development. He was given sheltered minutes in Montreal and may not get the same in Carolina. Further, I did not think he looked that good on wing. The best thing for KK would be to spend a half season or more in the AHL as a 1C to work on his game and then come up and be a 2C. With his $6M pay day, KK is expected to be a star and he is not their yet.

I know most people here disagree with moving a prospect to the wing, but Carolina has done that consistently. They did it with aho, and they are doing it with necas right now, and I can't blame what's been working for them.

From a production standpoint, KK is still better off playing wing with aho or trocheck than he is centering a 4th line (which is where he would be projected to play) behind aho trocheck, and staal.