Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - agreed to 8 x 8.25 aav

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[JOKER 192]

Ball is Sways court now. I don't budge from there.

 

[nORRis8]

A bridge contract should not be $8, no question. That is fair of the Bruins.

8 million for 8 years is more than an honor as a goalie and plenty for generations. He will likely never play over 60 games and cannot demand the same as a skater.

Seems like Seabass and Co. were maybe getting a bit incensed with the accusations of being cheap. Plus they are also likely putting it out there for season ticket holders of what's going on
If it's 8 for 8 years their offering I'm shocked. I had it more like 7/8 from the Bruins standpoint.
8/8 is very realistic.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Swayman will need to go what Nylander did and talk directly to Sweeney to get this done.

Or do what Gaudreau did.

 

[smithformeragent]

Where do we speculate about trade returns?

Here is fine.

Have at it.

 

[Pia8988]

He'll pay this year, but especially with Cam's reaction. Swayman will not be a long term Bruin

 

[smithformeragent]

Most of the hockey community: "That was pretty dumb on Neely's part"

Bruins fans: "Kick his ass Sea Bass"

Please avoid sweeping generalizations across the fan base or segments of it.

Debate the points and specific posts.

Thanks.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

Swayman, Ryder, and a 1st for Crosby...

 

[smithformeragent]

He'll pay this year, but especially with Cam's reaction. Swayman will not be a long term Bruin

Would you rather have him for 1-2 years at $7m and let him walk or trade him now?

 

[ranold26]

I'm starting to think a trade is more likely than a signing.

 

[BruinDust]

Why would they pay him $1M more and lose 3 years?

Why would they pay him $9M period?

That's the compromise to get him to sign on the bottom line. Bruins get their starting netminder the next half-decade. He gets to cash in again sooner and will likely get a bigger contract at 30 than he will at 33. If his AAV ask is 10 million, 9 is coming down.

I should point out that I'd have no problem handing him 9 million per over 8 years right here right now. That's how much I believe in this player and feel it's fair when compared to other Bruins already under contract. Bruins want him to sign the Lindholm contract essentially. He wants to be paid in the vein of 73 and 88. I think he's in the right to feel that way.

External comparables don't mean very much to me in this situation because I don't see any goalie contract out there that is comparable to him given his age and pedigree and when those contracts were signed relative to what the cap was and projected to be. All summer long it's been people comparing him to older players Bob or Hellebuyck or Saros, even contracts signed a lifetime ago like Rask. It's really too bad guys like Shesterkin and Oettinger haven't been extended because we'd have a better sense of what the external market really is. Those are his real comparables but the are still on their bridge deals.

 

[goldenblack]

If the agent is fired, it's an easy repair of the relationship. He's the cancer.

8x8 was a great offer. Sway got bad advice.

This is very fixable. Specially when you're a mega millionaire in the best lockeroom in hockey.

 

[Shaun]

if 8x8 was the offer and he didn’t accept trade him.

all these stooges should be fired regardless

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

That's the compromise to get him to sign on the bottom line. Bruins get their starting netminder the next half-decade. He gets to cash in again sooner and will likely get a bigger contract at 30 than he will at 33. If his AAV ask is 10 million, 9 is coming down.

I should point out that I'd have no problem handing him 9 million per over 8 years right here right now. That's how much I believe in this player and feel it's fair when compared to other Bruins already under contract. Bruins want him to sign the Lindholm contract essentially. He wants to be paid in the vein of 73 and 88. I think he's in the right to feel that way.

External comparables don't mean very much to me in this situation because I don't see any goalie contract out there that is comparable to him given his age and pedigree and when those contracts were signed relative to what the cap was and projected to be. All summer long it's been people comparing him to older players Bob or Hellebuyck or Saros, even contracts signed a lifetime ago like Rask. It's really too bad guys like Shesterkin and Oettinger haven't been extended because we'd have a better sense of what the external market really is. Those are his real comparables but the are still on their bridge deals.

You’re welcome to look at it that way. But goalies are different. Always have been. As evidenced by the salaries out there and their lower trade value relative to their peers who are position players. I don’t think this internal comp thing really holds any water given he’s a goalie. And yes, RFA v UFA matters in a big way.

 

[ON3M4N]

Again, they're well-documented. You've referenced them several times in multiple threads. We're going around in circles. Simply put, follow Marchand's advice, don't talk about your contract.

LMAO he hasn't talked about his contract.

"The answer I'm going to give you this year is that I've educated myself, and that I understand the business side of it all. And it's given me a complete new mindset of understanding the business and how to react to it. I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can't ruin the goalie market for other guys that are going to be in my shoes down the line."

That's some hard hitting stuff on his negotiations with Boston. I mean I felt like I was part of the negations with this info you gave us.

 

[BruinDust]

That is the concept with the Matthew's last contract.

However Matthews had leverage and statistics.

$9 for any years is a win only for Swayman. Not the Bruins. Definitely a pass for myself. Insulting in fact if that were Swayman's mindset to win on years and salary.

Why can't Swayman use the same thought process as Matthews? Why can't any star player use that sort of thinking. Some guys want security, some want to bet on themselves more.

And why is it a win or lose scenario. The Bruins gets quality netminding for the next 5 years. Swayman can negotiate his next contract sooner. The best contracts are those where both parties win.

Here's the other thing, if the Bruins want to walk away after 5 years and go in a different direction, now they can. They gain flexibility. If they want to trade him in year 5, you'll get more in return than trying to trade him in year 8 at 33 years old.

There is no universe Swayman deserves $9mm/year at this stage, especially on a shorter term deal.

In your opinion. I don't agree.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Personally I wouldn’t pay ANY goalie 10m+

 

[Number8]

Most of the hockey community: "That was pretty dumb on Neely's part"

Bruins fans: "Kick his ass Sea Bass"

No one knows the scope of the talks, the history, the actual delta between what each side is proposing (it’s not just yr/salary). So neither the hockey community or Bruins fans can comment on whether what Neely said is brilliant or stupid.

Meanwhile if, as it appears, the B’s have offered 8x8 (again, I have no idea about any other terms/conditions) that’s pretty solid and fair offer. And if they were haggling over small details but reasonably close in terms of money I’m sure Neely would have said squat today.

So, if indeed they are sizeably apart, then it’s smart for Neely to say “Hey Bruins fans, we offered him a sweet deal. We may all have to be prepared to start the season without Swayman. If so, I’d like to ask the fans to consider 8x8 and tell if we’re being reasonable or not.”

Bruins ain’t going very far over 8x8 and they should not. What that means for Swayman in Boston or our season I do not know. I think the fact that Management is wading into the PR aspect of it makes me a bit worried that Dec 1 (if that….. YIKES) is more likely than the season opener.

 

[Ladyfan]

Most of the hockey community: "That was pretty dumb on Neely's part"

Bruins fans: "Kick his ass Sea Bass"

Not most Bruins fans that I know...and I know quite a few.

 

[smithformeragent]

We see this in other leagues. Players benefit, but are also hurt at times by the CBA.

I’m reminded of the NFL.

Jimmy Graham wanted to be paid like a wide receiver. Saints wanted to pay him as a tight end.

Kirk Cousins went year to year with the Washington Redskins who paid through the nose on the franchise tag, but retained flexibility.

Guards don’t get paid like offensive tackles.

He’s a goalie and he restricted.

Boston dealing away Swayman doesn’t change that.

So what are you willing to pay on a 1-2 year deal?

 

[ON3M4N]

No one knows the scope of the talks, the history, the actual delta between what each side is proposing (it’s not just yr/salary). So neither the hockey community or Bruins fans can comment on whether what Neely said is brilliant or stupid.

Meanwhile if, as it appears, the B’s have offered 8x8 (again, I have no idea about any other terms/conditions) that’s pretty solid and fair offer. And if they were haggling over small details but reasonably close in terms of money I’m sure Neely would have said squat today.

So, if indeed they are sizeably apart, then it’s smart for Neely to say “Hey Bruins fans, we offered him a sweet deal. We may all have to be prepared to start the season without Swayman. If so, I’d like to ask the fans to consider 8x8 and tell if we’re being reasonable or not.”

Bruins ain’t going very far over 8x8 and they should not. What that means for Swayman in Boston or our season I do not know. I think the fact that Management is wading into the PR aspect of it makes me a bit worried that Dec 1 (if that….. YIKES) is more likely than the season opener.

You have to wonder how long 8x8 has been on the table though. If BOS has been at 8x8 since day 1 and Swayman as been at 8x9.5 since day 1, then shame on both of them for making ZERO progress all summer long.

 

[bruinsfan1968]

My opinion is even if and when Swayman signs no matter the term or money, he will not be a Bruin for the whole term.
This has not gone well for either side and hard feelings will remain, unless all parties can put their big boy pants on and look past all of this, perhaps things can move forward.
I want it to all end well for all parties, it's up to all to move on and get back to business of playing hockey as a team and winning a Stanley Cup.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

He'll pay this year, but especially with Cam's reaction. Swayman will not be a long term Bruin

Fair to say Neely is not happy, and is more annoyed about this than Sweeney. Cut in on Don when he started to give the usual GM political answer to make his feelings known.

But feelings change quickly in the pro sports world, it's cut and thrust and everyone knows this, and Cam has to know that Sway is still the best and simplest long-term option for the Bruins in net. Drafting high quality goaltenders is even more of a lottery than regular skaters. So if you find real gold, you do all you can to keep it. If the Bruins and Sway can eventually sort this all out, I still think it's more likely than not that Sway stays long-term and Neely has no problem with it. I would perhaps concede though that I'm slightly less confident about that than I was say a month or so ago. But still lots to play out yet as to where this all ends up in the years to come.

 

[BruinDust]

You’re welcome to look at it that way. But goalies are different. Always have been. As evidenced by the salaries out there and their lower trade value relative to their peers who are position players. I don’t think this internal comp thing really holds any water given he’s a goalie. And yes, RFA v UFA matters in a big way.

No? So basically the only teammate Swayman is allowed to compare himself to salary wise is his fellow Bruins goalies?

Within dressing rooms players don't think that way. These are competitive guys and they compare themselves to each other in terms of their importance or pecking order on the team. Position does not matter. Heck if anything, goalies who perform well are placed on a pedistal within the dressing room. Aren't goalies the most important player on the ice?

Part of this whole negotiation is appealing to the ego of the athlete. Why the &^%^ should Jeremy Swayman accept making the same amount of money as Elias Lindholm over the next 7 years? What's Elias Lindholm ever done for the Bruins franchise? Up to this point, absolutely nothing. We aren't comparing Swayman to Patrice Bergeron here.

This falls on Sweeney IMO. He set the precedent with the McAvoy contract in October 2021. He added fuel to the fire with Hampus Lindholm, Elias Lindholm, even Nikita Zadorov. You can't expect your young franchise players to take less just because you overpaid guys in the 2nd tier of your roster, or in McAvoy's case, pay them more on their future projection than what they've actually done at the NHL level. It's not like McAvoy had a bunch of Norris trophies when he signed his big deal.

People talk about internal salary caps all the time, not letting player B/C/D/E make more than player A. Well it works both ways.

 

[smithformeragent]

Fair to say Neely is not happy, and is more annoyed about this than Sweeney. Cut in on Don when he started to give the usual GM political answer to make his feelings known.

But feelings change quickly in the pro sports world, it's cut and thrust and everyone knows this, and Cam has to know that Sway is still the best and simplest long-term option for the Bruins in net. Drafting high quality goaltenders is even more of a lottery than regular skaters. So if you find real gold, you do all you can to keep it. If the Bruins and Sway can eventually sort this all out, I still think it's more likely than not that Sway stays long-term and Neely has no problem with it. I would perhaps concede though that I'm slightly less confident about that than I was say a month or so ago. But still lots to play out yet as to where this all ends up in the years to come.

Good cop bad cop?

Everything the club does is calculated.

Sometimes when you’ve tried diplomacy and failed to make headway, you have the loose canon in the administration flex their muscles and place their finger over the red button.

 

[TD Charlie]

No? So basically the only teammate Swayman is allowed to compare himself to salary wise is his fellow Bruins goalies?

Within dressing rooms players don't think that way. These are competitive guys and they compare themselves to each other in terms of their importance or pecking order on the team. Position does not matter. Heck if anything, goalies who perform well are placed on a pedistal within the dressing room. Aren't goalies the most important player on the ice?

Part of this whole negotiation is appealing to the ego of the athlete. Why the &^%^ should Jeremy Swayman accept making the same amount of money as Elias Lindholm over the next 7 years? What's Elias Lindholm ever done for the Bruins franchise? Up to this point, absolutely nothing. We aren't comparing Swayman to Patrice Bergeron here.

This falls on Sweeney IMO. He set the precedent with the McAvoy contract in October 2021. He added fuel to the fire with Hampus Lindholm, Elias Lindholm, even Nikita Zadorov. You can't expect your young franchise players to take less just because you overpaid guys in the 2nd tier of your roster, or in McAvoy's case, pay them more on their future projection than what they've actually done at the NHL level. It's not like McAvoy had a bunch of Norris trophies when he signed his big deal.

People talk about internal salary caps all the time, not letting player B/C/D/E make more than player A. Well it works both ways.

I get it, but the whole RFA v UFA on the open market is sort of a big deal. Especially at this point of the offseason