Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - agreed to 8 x 8.25 aav

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[BruinDust]

If swayman sees himself as comparable to other position players inside and outside the org. why then did he admit he was trying to set a precedent for the Goalie market in the NHL for future goaltenders that will be in the position he is currently in himself? that is what he actually said anyway. unless somehow you know even though he said that he wants to set the goalie market he really compares himself to position players in his mind.

Who said anything about position players outside the Bruins organization? I was only speaking internally.

Externally he wants to set the bar for other goaltenders. Internally he wants to be paid based on his value to the current Bruins team. I believe he sees himself in the same core group as Pasta and McAvoy, his age contemporaries, and wants to be paid in that same stratosphere. If he doesn't believe he is a lot more valuable to the Bruins than Elias Lindholm is, well he should, because he is.

 

[DKH]

Sad got to this

Perfect marriage seemed

Sweeney could Jack to 66 say which is still in the 7.5-8.5 M seems fair area and let everyone save face

I get Neely asking him do you really want to be here

How much is the agent want to go to battle

He could take 4 bridge or get 2 and get out

So weird - thought this would be easy peazy

 

[danpantz]

I really think the union and sways agent are pushing for a bigger deal Goalies right or wrong are not valued as high as centres or d men. Union wants to change that an want Sway to be the poster bou

He’s going to have to do this for some other team then because the more his price goes up the more cap the Bruins will need to shed.

 

[ON3M4N]

I don’t understand this argument. Bruins likely low balled out of the gate and Swaymen likely went high. Usually thats what happens in negotiations. All that matters is that the bruins are now at 8x8 and i highly doubt Neely would say a thing about numbers if the offer was not turned down

That's my point though. How long has 8x8 been on the table. For all we know Neely & Co went to Swayman's agent this morning and said "we're holding a press conference in a hour. Our offer is 8x8 and we'd love to be announcing an extension and not fielding more questions about negotiations."

If this offers been on the table for more than a few weeks then it's a different story

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Who said anything about position players outside the Bruins organization? I was only speaking internally.

Externally he wants to set the bar for other goaltenders. Internally he wants to be paid based on his value to the current Bruins team. I believe he sees himself in the same core group as Pasta and McAvoy, his age contemporaries, and wants to be paid in that same stratosphere. If he doesn't believe he is a lot more valuable to the Bruins than Elias Lindholm is, well he should, because he is.

Bruins disagree, as does any rational salary comparison. Elias Lindholm hasnt played a game yet. How do you know his value to the Bruins? Lewis Gross better have contacts in the SHL.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

To a certain degree, yes I am.

Connor Hellebuyck signed that contract at 30 years old. And let's be honest, his playoff record is very suspect. He insists on playing 60+ games every year and it shoots him and his team square in the foot every time.

Saros is 29. Still has never won a playoff series. That being said I felt he took less than he should but factor in no state tax and his own desire to stay in Nashville (I assume), that isn't Swayman's problem IMO.

Andrei Vasilievsky was 25 when he signed his current deal max deal and he signed it Summer 2019 before he ever won a cup or Conn Smythe. He wasn't that far beyond Swayman when he inked that deal. A shade over 200 games played and coming off a disasterous playoff in 2019. Then factor in what the cap was then, what is is right now, and where it is expected to be going, 9.5 per for Swayman is starting to look light in comparison. Oh and there is also the no state tax thing there as well.

That's the issue here all summer. There is no goaltender currently under contract that is a true comparable. In every case there are factors that don't line up. Whether it's age, their track record, when they signed, what the cap was, where the cap went, etc. etc. His real comparables are Shesterkin, Oettinger, when healthy I'd add Demko. But they are still on their bridge deals and unfortunately for the Bruins and their fans, someone has to go first among that group and it's Swayman.

Personally I think the numbers of teams who would sign him to 9-9.5 over a 8 year deal are numerous.

I mean you’re kind of building your own narratives around each comp. Hellebuyck has two Vezina and 3 other top 4 finishes. Hes even come in 6th in the Hart twice.

Age is a factor - those deals for the older guys didn’t have two RFA years in it. Players in RFA get less than UFA. Just like with position players who don’t bridge.

You can’t wave Saros off as a hometown discount in a tax free state. And they offered more than him anyway.

What about Sorokin? Signed at 28 with a better resume and no RFA years. Why can’t that be some sort of ballpark here?

You can point to the playoff series, but Vasi signed his deal coming off a Vezina win and a third place finish the year before.

What would have happened if Oettinger went first and took a lower value for a “hometown discount” and a tax free state?

There aren’t perfect comps, but there is a distinct goalie market. And those contracts matter more than anything else.

 

[TD Charlie]

I am also looking at what he literally said and posted the quote. I will take back the reset the goalie market comment as that was not what i was debating. I was debating the point of him comparing himself to other positional players. if that was what he was doing he would not have said he can ruin the goalie market. he would have said he can ruin the RFA market or the market in general but he literally said the "Goalie market" . his literal words.

It’s likely he’s just using other goalies as comps, which is the right thing to do

 

[smithformeragent]

Again, this goes to show that none of us know.

We can assume, we can speculate, and that’s all it is.

Some cats are wired different.

I never begrudge a player for going out and getting everything they can. It can all be over for any of them in the blink of an eye.

I used to get really attached to certain players.

When I changed careers, I received an initial offer from my new employer.

It certainly wasn’t a slap in the face, but my wife encouraged me to ask for more, thinking they would at worst meet me in the middle.

It turns out they met what I asked for. I’m glad they did.

It never hurts to ask for more. The worst they could say is no. But nobody’s going to look out for number one, except you.

 

[BruinDust]

cap management/asset management

I don't really care about asset management. I'm fine after 5 years letting him walk at age 30 if that is what is comes down to. All I want is for the Bruins to get him for his prime years (25-30). Maximize the Pasta/McAvoy/Swayman window. To do that they have to get him under contract. That's the bottom line. Losing the player, that's a loss for the Bruins and a win for Swayman because he'll get his money either way.

 

[DKH]

Loading…

www.nytimes.com

Good article

This seems to be personal between Gross & Bruins ~ his anger on the Krug pulled contract & the Swayman arbitration. Swayman believes he’s been done dirty.

A trade probably is best for all

 

[Sheppy]

The whole “ I want to play in Boston “ - “I want to be here” etc, etc and not accepting an 8x8M offer screams he’s full of shit.

I don’t know, man. Seems pretty weird.

 

[Over the volcano]

The whole “ I want to play in Boston “ - “I want to be here” etc, etc and not accepting an 8x8M offer screams he’s full of shit.

I don’t know, man. Seems pretty weird.

Yeah and the "I'm looking out for future players" is pretty bullshit too in a league with a hard cap.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840785172305956900

 

[bruins cup]

33-46-63-37-40 guys who have actually won something and proven track record yet they all took team friendly deals I don't see where this goalie gets off thinking he should get above max value when he is not done really anything at all in his entire career except win one playoff series

 

[Scotto74]

Ruin does not mean set the goalie market.

In this context he is talking about not wanting to take a hometown discount so other teams can’t use him as an example with their goalies to get them to take less.

agree goalies as comps not position players.

Who said anything about position players outside the Bruins organization? I was only speaking internally.

Externally he wants to set the bar for other goaltenders. Internally he wants to be paid based on his value to the current Bruins team. I believe he sees himself in the same core group as Pasta and McAvoy, his age contemporaries, and wants to be paid in that same stratosphere. If he doesn't believe he is a lot more valuable to the Bruins than Elias Lindholm is, well he should, because he is.

so your saying he is comping himself to the goalies in the NHL but also to position players on the bruins at the same time?

I would love to see the diagrams on those mathematical gymnastics during the negotiations.

also curious why he wouldn't then say he didn't want to ruin the market for future teammates in his contract position in a few years and why he specifically said the goalie market. things that make you go hmmm?

It’s likely he’s just using other goalies as comps, which is the right thing to do

which is exactly what i am saying and the debate I am having. he is not using position players on the Bruins as comps he is using other goalies as comps which is what he meant by the "goalie market" comment.

 

[UncleRico]

so your saying he is comping himself to the goalies in the NHL but also to position players on the bruins at the same time?

I would love to see the diagrams on those mathematical gymnastics during the negotiations.

also curious why he wouldn't then say he didn't want to ruin the market for future teammates in his contract position in a few years and why he specifically said the goalie market. things that make you go hmmm?


which is exactly what i am saying and the debate I am having. he is not using position players on the Bruins as comps he is using other goalies as comps which is what he meant by the "goalie market" comment.

You just keep saying stuff that no one said.

I

 

[DKH]

The whole “ I want to play in Boston “ - “I want to be here” etc, etc and not accepting an 8x8M offer screams he’s full of shit.

I don’t know, man. Seems pretty weird.

It really does

Swayman very well could have such animosity towards Bruins over arbitration

He’s so good a team out west would make sense

You shouldn’t work where you are not happy if you have Swayman’s options and skillset

My guess this agent pounded home they F’d you they don’t respect you

I’m not sure we would see the happy upbeat guy even if he signed tomorrow

 

[BruinDust]

I would love to see the diagrams on those mathematical gymnastics during the negotiations.

If I'm Swayman's camp, any contract that has been offered and signed by GM Don Sweeney can be part of the conversation. There is a common denominator in all of those contracts, the guy sitting at one end of the negotiating table.

Why can't Lewis Gross look at the 8 x 8 offer and say *&%& you Don Sweeney, my client is worth a heck of a lot more to your organization than Elias Lindholm is or ever will be. It's not like Don can counter with "well I never signed that contract, that was some other GM". No Don, you signed it.

 

[KrejciWinger]

I would trade Swayman for Ullmark 1 for 1

 

[Mad-Marcus]

Loading…

www.nytimes.com

Good article

This seems to be personal between Gross & Bruins ~ his anger on the Krug pulled contract & the Swayman arbitration. Swayman believes he’s been done dirty.

A trade probably is best for all

It would have been nice to know this before trading Linus. Linus is/was a great teammate and seemingly grateful for being rescued from BUFF.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

If I'm Swayman's camp, any contract that has been offered and signed by GM Don Sweeney can be part of the conversation. There is a common denominator in all of those contracts, the guy sitting at one end of the negotiating table.

Why can't Lewis Gross look at the 8 x 8 offer and say *&%& you Don Sweeney, my client is worth a heck of a lot more to your organization than Elias Lindholm is or ever will be. It's not like Don can counter with "well I never signed that contract, that was some other GM". No Don, you signed it.

They can say whatever they want but what Elias Lindholm got is going to have no bearing on the Bruins side - or any team for that matter.

 

[Scotto74]

You just keep saying stuff that no one said.

I

are you even following the same conversation as me? we are debating if he should comparing himself to other goalies in the NHL or other position players on the Bruins.

 

[UConn126]

I wonder if we can sign Ullmark as a UFA next summer or if we've totally burned that bridge lol.

 

[Scotto74]

If I'm Swayman's camp, any contract that has been offered and signed by GM Don Sweeney can be part of the conversation. There is a common denominator in all of those contracts, the guy sitting at one end of the negotiating table.

Why can't Lewis Gross look at the 8 x 8 offer and say *&%& you Don Sweeney, my client is worth a heck of a lot more to your organization than Elias Lindholm is or ever will be. It's not like Don can counter with "well I never signed that contract, that was some other GM". No Don, you signed it.

They can bring that statement for sure if they like but all the response is going to be is your a goalie so you will get paid like one.

what he feels like he should be paid compared to other positions is irrelevant and again if he did compare himself why did he say "Ruin the Goalie Market"? makes no sense. where are you getting your information that he feels he should be comped to position players? If you can't show that this is going in circles so I am out.

 

[I Hate Philadelphia]