Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -UPDATE- neither elect arbitration (page 16)

[mjhfb]

I agree Dom. It's not that Swayman has all the leverage. Sweeney has leverage, no doubt.

However, the reality is that he really only has a scorched earth option. I've done a lot of negotiations over the years in business and if you find yourself in the "I can always press the button and we all die" position, you are pretty well boxed into a corner.

I think it will get done. But if I were forced to call a bluff, I'd rather be in the agent's shoes than Sweeney's.

The way it looks to me is that it will get done, but if it doesn't, the IT squad supporting this site will have to add some processing power and storage to handle the tsunami of fire Sweeney posts.

 

[Hazelwig]

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, but if you don't know what the hell you are going to sign Swayman for and maybe you do, but they need a goal scorer, they had great goaltending this season including the playoffs, so if you get Sway in the fold, and he takes up to much cap and the savings lessened with the with Korpi signing that you would have had with Bussi, really hurts your ability to get a goal scorer, again the problem in the playoffs was not in goal, and it won't be this year, but scoring will remain a issue.

Yeah, I agree with you there. Scoring is the issue in the playoffs and has been for years. It's an entirely different (and darker) discussion regarding whether there truly is league parity, but here are the past three years' cup teams and their forwards drafted in the top 15:

2024: FL (Tkachuk #6, Barkov #2, Reinhard #15); EDM (I mean... this speaks for itself)
2023: FL (same as above except for Reinhard); LV (Eichel, Stone (6th round , but basically a top 15 guy)
2022: TB (Stamkos, (plus unreal hits with Point, Kutch); COL (like EDM...speaks for itself, they're stacked with top ten pick talent)

If you don't sink to the bottom for a top 10-15 pick at some point in the team life-cycle its pretty hard to actually win the cup. The Bs played St Louis but that was after TB got upset by CLB and STL rode an absurd run from their goalie. Let's not forget that those teams above also have top 10 pick D-men too: Hedman, Makar, Ekblad, etc.

True differential scoring is just really hard to find outside the top 15.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The way it looks to me is that it will get done, but if it doesn't, the IT squad supporting this site will have to add some processing power and storage to handle the tsunami of fire Sweeney posts.

But really, what are the chances nothing gets done?

That would hurt the Bruins, hurt Swayman and most importantly, hurt his agent.

 

[Hazelwig]

Yeah, I agree with you there. Scoring is the issue in the playoffs and has been for years. It's an entirely different (and darker) discussion regarding whether there truly is league parity, but here are the past three years' cup teams and their forwards drafted in the top 15:

2024: FL (Tkachuk #6, Barkov #2, Reinhard #15); EDM (I mean... this speaks for itself)
2023: FL (same as above except for Reinhard); LV (Eichel, Stone (6th round , but basically a top 15 guy)
2022: TB (Stamkos, (plus unreal hits with Point, Kutch); COL (like EDM...speaks for itself, they're stacked with top ten pick talent)

If you don't sink to the bottom for a top 10-15 pick at some point in the team life-cycle its pretty hard to actually win the cup. The Bs played St Louis but that was after TB got upset by CLB and STL rode an absurd run from their goalie. Let's not forget that those teams above also have top 10 pick D-men too: Hedman, Makar, Ekblad, etc.

True differential scoring is just really hard to find outside the top 15.

And before that is was the Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Kane era. I'll admit there's more too it, but on balance, without a top 10-15 offensive player (or two) its pretty hard to actually win. Bruins are building a D first team because that's the only option. Then you cross your fingers and hope you can get some pop in the playoffs. Coyle and Zacha just aren't those guys unfortunately. I still love the team design - and Swayman is a HUGE part of it - but I think this is the reality of the league.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Yeah, I agree with you there. Scoring is the issue in the playoffs and has been for years. It's an entirely different (and darker) discussion regarding whether there truly is league parity, but here are the past three years' cup teams and their forwards drafted in the top 15:

2024: FL (Tkachuk #6, Barkov #2, Reinhard #15); EDM (I mean... this speaks for itself)
2023: FL (same as above except for Reinhard); LV (Eichel, Stone (6th round , but basically a top 15 guy)
2022: TB (Stamkos, (plus unreal hits with Point, Kutch); COL (like EDM...speaks for itself, they're stacked with top ten pick talent)

If you don't sink to the bottom for a top 10-15 pick at some point in the team life-cycle its pretty hard to actually win the cup. The Bs played St Louis but that was after TB got upset by CLB and STL rode an absurd run from their goalie. Let's not forget that those teams above also have top 10 pick D-men too: Hedman, Makar, Ekblad, etc.

True differential scoring is just really hard to find outside the top 15.

A couple of nitpicks, Tkachuk was acquired by Florida in a trade and the Bruins have a Top 5 gamebreaking scorer that they got at #24.

Also, Tampa is a disingenuous one to include in your point. Stamkos was a passenger on the Cup teams behind 2nd round pick Kucherov, 3rd round pick Point, 19th OA Vasy and 2nd OA Hedman (the one who could've supported your point). They did what you're proposing isn't a winning strategy and built a dominant roster with non Top 10 picks

 

[Hookslide]

Bruins added a top 6 center, should help the goal production.

Scoring in the playoffs will always be an issue when you have to play the best defensive team in the league and eventual Cup winner.

He is just replacing DeBrusk production, that is not increasing you offense.

 

[Hazelwig]

A couple of nitpicks, Tkachuk was acquired by Florida in a trade and the Bruins have a Top 5 gamebreaking scorer that they got at #24.

Also, Tampa is a disingenuous one to include in your point. Stamkos was a passenger on the Cup teams behind 2nd round pick Kucherov, 3rd round pick Point, 19th OA Vasy and 2nd OA Hedman (the one who could've supported your point). They did what you're proposing isn't a winning strategy and built a dominant roster with non Top 10 picks

Yep. its not perfect but on balance I feel this is the case. And Tkachuck was acquired via Huberdeau (#3 overall).

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yeah, I agree with you there. Scoring is the issue in the playoffs and has been for years. It's an entirely different (and darker) discussion regarding whether there truly is league parity, but here are the past three years' cup teams and their forwards drafted in the top 15:

2024: FL (Tkachuk #6, Barkov #2, Reinhard #15); EDM (I mean... this speaks for itself)
2023: FL (same as above except for Reinhard); LV (Eichel, Stone (6th round , but basically a top 15 guy)
2022: TB (Stamkos, (plus unreal hits with Point, Kutch); COL (like EDM...speaks for itself, they're stacked with top ten pick talent)

If you don't sink to the bottom for a top 10-15 pick at some point in the team life-cycle its pretty hard to actually win the cup. The Bs played St Louis but that was after TB got upset by CLB and STL rode an absurd run from their goalie. Let's not forget that those teams above also have top 10 pick D-men too: Hedman, Makar, Ekblad, etc.

True differential scoring is just really hard to find outside the top 15.

You actually mention Stone, Point and Kucherov as players outside of the top 15.

Also mention players the teams didn't draft but acquired (Tkachuk, Reinhart, Eichel).

Vegas has drafted 3 players in the top 15, all in 2017. Cody Glass (traded, no impact), Nick Suzuki (traded before ever playing for Vegas) and Eric Brannstrom (also traded before ever playing for Vegas).

Of course drafting high is a big advantage, but at an obvious price. And as always, there's more than one way to win a Cup.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He is just replacing DeBrusk production, that is not increasing you offense.

Lindholm is a much better player than DeBrusk.

It's yet to be seen how much production will be impacted.

 

[Hazelwig]

You actually mention Stone, Point and Kucherov as players outside of the top 15.

Also mention players the teams didn't draft but acquired (Tkachuk, Reinhart, Eichel).

Vegas has drafted 3 players in the top 15, all in 2017. Cody Glass (traded, no impact), Nick Suzuki (traded before ever playing for Vegas) and Eric Brannstrom (also traded before ever playing for Vegas).

Of course drafting high is a big advantage, but at an obvious price. And as always, there's more than one way to win a Cup.

100%. Its not perfect but I do think I have to point out that Stone was acquired in the Brannstom trade. So you use your top 15 picks to get top end players. Bruins don't have that. Any yes.. TB's guys are sort of like Datsuyk and Zetterberg. Sometimes your later round guys are absolute horses, that can happen too, just not very often. Actually the Bruins did it (Chara, Bergy, Marchy,).
The top 10-15 D men selections also allow you to focus on scorers and not waste resources getting the H Lindholm's of the world(!) so there's a trickle down effect.
Very sorry to derail the Swayman talk! I'll stop now.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

He is just replacing DeBrusk production, that is not increasing you offense.

Lindholm is on an entirely different level of scoring than Debrusk.

Case in point, Lindholm's "disaster season" last year would've been the 2nd highest point total in Debrusk's career

 

[DominicT]

I agree Dom. It's not that Swayman has all the leverage. Sweeney has leverage, no doubt.

However, the reality is that he really only has a scorched earth option. I've done a lot of negotiations over the years in business and if you find yourself in the "I can always press the button and we all die" position, you are pretty well boxed into a corner.

I think it will get done. But if I were forced to call a bluff, I'd rather be in the agent's shoes than Sweeney's.

Okay. You want $6 million lockout protection? What's to say the NHL and the PA don't extend it by one year while they hammer out an extension. How about we make it $3 million in 2026 and $3 million in 2027?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

100%. Its not perfect but I do think I have to point out that Stone was acquired in the Brannstom trade. So you use your top 15 picks to get top end players. Bruins don't have that. Any yes.. TB's guys are sort of like Datsuyk and Zetterberg. Sometimes your later round guys are absolute horses, that can happen too, just not very often. Actually the Bruins did it (Chara, Bergy, Marchy,).
The top 10-15 D men selections also allow you to focus on scorers and not waste resources getting the H Lindholm's of the world(!) so there's a trickle down effect.
Very sorry to derail the Swayman talk! I'll stop now.

Funny, Hampus Lindholm was a 6th overall pick.

 

[Hookslide]

Lindholm is a much better player than DeBrusk.

It's yet to be seen how much production will be impacted.

Lindholm is what the fans were screaming for, I was not one of them, contract will not age well.

Lindholm is on an entirely different level of scoring than Debrusk.

Case in point, Lindholm's "disaster season" last year would've been the 2nd highest point total in Debrusk's career

Doesn't change the fact that the production was similar.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Lindholm is what the fans were screaming for, I was not one of them, contract will not age well.

They usually don't.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

At least it's not a baseball contract, oof, 400M into mostly the late, late 30s, early 40s.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

At least it's not a baseball contract, oof, 400M into mostly the late, late 30s, early 40s.

Yeah amazed baseball hasn't forced sanity by limiting contract lengths yet.

 

[Ludwig Fell Down]

Yeah amazed baseball hasn't forced sanity by limiting contract lengths yet.

I'm guessing the owners will negotiate for some owner-friendly buyout options in the next CBA.

 

[whatsbruin]

Reilly. Moore. Not very often.

Okay, I meant loosing a player because they couldn't come to terms. I'm guessing, but I think Sweeney gets a good idea from the player, a head of time , the ball park of the contract the player is looking for. If Don's in the same ball park, they can get it done. If they aren't in the ball park the player would be gone by the time they are at with Swayman.

 

[Sheppy]

It's a nice day to sign Jeremy Swayman

Just tossing that out there.

 

[whatsbruin]

Lindholm is a much better player than DeBrusk.

It's yet to be seen how much production will be impacted.

Hopefully Lindhold replaces DeBrusks goal scoring, but also creates a lot more goals for teammates, more so than Debrusk, thus more..

 

[BergyWho37]

It's a nice day to sign Jeremy Swayman

Just tossing that out there.

Probably best for you to go play pocket pool for the remainder of the day so you won’t be disappointed..

Just trying to keep you happy.

 

[Sheppy]

Probably best for you to go play pocket pool for the remainder of the day so you won’t be disappointed..

Just trying to keep you happy.

Ok, fine.

That said, feeding the geese at work is a no-no.

 

[Riverfront]

The fact that swayman nor the bruins filed for arbitration leads me to believe that
a deal has been agreed upon , just need to put pen to paper and as DON SWEENEY
typical way of doing business it won't be announced until the first day of training camp !
So all the speculation in July and August will have to wait until the first day of training camp or when
players report for fitness testing usually the day before on ice sessions begin.

 

[TD Charlie]

The fact that swayman nor the bruins filed for arbitration leads me to believe that
a deal has been agreed upon , just need to put pen to paper and as DON SWEENEY
typical way of doing business it won't be announced until the first day of training camp !
So all the speculation in July and August will have to wait until the first day of training camp or when
players report for fitness testing usually the day before on ice sessions begin.

That's where I'm at as well. Maybe not agreed upon, but close enough, and cordial enough that both parties are comfortable they'll get to a mutually agreeable conclusion.