Proposal: Jeremy Swayman for Casey Mittlestadt, Isak Rosen and a 2nd.

[BigBadBruins7708]

I don't see why Boston couldn't roll with both goalies for the remainder of Ullmark's contract. Swayman will get a decent raise but not unaffordable.

Because cap space.

At the moment they have $10.5m of cap space this off-season to fill 11 roster spots including 1C and 2C.

They can't afford the luxury of the current goalie tandem

 

[wintersej]

Let me state the current cap situation for the Bruins.

They have $73 million tied up in 13 players for next year. That means that have about $10.5 million to sign about 9 players, including Swayman, Bergeron, Krejci or their replacements.

Swayman will probably cost about $4 million.

I think it would be cap malfeasance to use what very little cap space they have to pay that to a back up goalie.

I suggested Mittlestadt because he can play 2C and is relatively cheap. I think it takes more than Rosen and a second but I don’t foresee a scenario where both he and Ullmark are on the team unless they plan on them playing forward as well.

An elite tandem + elite D + Pasta and slugs makes a shitty playoff team until they can rebuild the forward group. Dollars to donuts the Bruins take that path.

Paying Casey 2.5 instead of Swayman 3-4 is insanity.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Rosen has been underwhelming since he was drafted and I don't see Middlestadt developing into a top-6 centre. It's a miss but it's not a bad swing.

I don't think it is a good swing. Middlestedt is pretty much a bust, who I do not see turning into a checking center. Rosen, I do not know much about. Furthermore, I would say the Bruins are looking for a draft pick or two and cap flexibility if they even trade Swayman. I really do not think they will trade him.

 

[randywoodsghost]

Because cap space.

At the moment they have $10.5m of cap space this off-season to fill 11 roster spots including 1C and 2C.

They can't afford the luxury of the current goalie tandem

Shh. According to many of your fellow Bruins fans, they can sign 10 players, including top 2 centers with about 6 million dollars they’ll have left over after they pay Swayman.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Turns to a M-NTC after this season:

16 team NTC next year
15 team NTC the year after

Didn't know that, but a 16 team NTC might as well be a NMC when you're talking about the goalie position, since there's only 32 spots in the league for starters and most teams have that position filled already.

Ullmark can easily pick his 16 teams to prevent the Bruins from being able to deal him, should he decide he wants to stay in Boston.

I don't see why Boston couldn't roll with both goalies for the remainder of Ullmark's contract. Swayman will get a decent raise but not unaffordable.

It's possible but they are going to have some cap issues this off-season and if I'm Swayman there's no way I'm agreeing to go through the Schneider treatment and play two more seasons behind a soon-to-be Vezina winning goalie when I'm already 24.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Shh. According to many of your fellow Bruins fans, they can sign 10 players, including top 2 centers with about 6 million dollars they’ll have left over after they pay Swayman.

As it is you're gonna see guys like Gryz, Coyle, Forbort moved for space

 

[Pinkfloyd]

They are likely going to do that but a lot will depend how much rhe cap goes up.

They're under a serious cap constraint, even more so if Bergeron and/Krejci want to come back.

And if they don't want to come back, the best way to find their replacement is likely trading from a position of strength, which is having two of the best goalies in the world on the same team

I think for Boston, the best way to find a replacement for them is to toil through the free agency market instead of making more trades from their future especially when we're talking about maintaining a strength of their team while that goalie being an answer for both now and the future. If I'm Boston, I'd maybe see about dumping the likes of Coyle and/or Forbort and buying out Reilly to give them more cap flexibility for potential replacements. I just don't think it's necessary to move Swayman to accomplish such replacements. You're already going to take the risk of new players replacing pillars of the team. You should look to cut the rest of the team as little as possible unless they're not as crucial to their success. Swayman is pretty crucial, imo. Someone like Coyle and Forbort are less so though they do contribute.

Because cap space.

At the moment they have $10.5m of cap space this off-season to fill 11 roster spots including 1C and 2C.

They can't afford the luxury of the current goalie tandem

I think they can if they move some other things around that they probably don't need moving forward considering what they have. Boston would be better served moving almost anything else other than their goaltending if you're talking about replacing a 1 and 2C.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Shh. According to many of your fellow Bruins fans, they can sign 10 players, including top 2 centers with about 6 million dollars they’ll have left over after they pay Swayman.

That doesnt mean they would trade Swayman for stiffs. There are other options for creating space, and if they decide to move Swayman, they would get better deals than this.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I think for Boston, the best way to find a replacement for them is to toil through the free agency market instead of making more trades from their future especially when we're talking about maintaining a strength of their team while that goalie being an answer for both now and the future. If I'm Boston, I'd maybe see about dumping the likes of Coyle and/or Forbort and buying out Reilly to give them more cap flexibility for potential replacements. I just don't think it's necessary to move Swayman to accomplish such replacements. You're already going to take the risk of new players replacing pillars of the team. You should look to cut the rest of the team as little as possible unless they're not as crucial to their success. Swayman is pretty crucial, imo. Someone like Coyle and Forbort are less so though they do contribute.

I think they can if they move some other things around that they probably don't need moving forward considering what they have. Boston would be better served moving almost anything else other than their goaltending if you're talking about replacing a 1 and 2C.

True, that's why I said earlier in the thread I'd keep Swayman and sell high on Ullmark.

Get a good young piece or 1st round pick on the 10th OA range back and free up 5m in space

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's possible but they are going to have some cap issues this off-season and if I'm Swayman there's no way I'm agreeing to go through the Schneider treatment and play two more seasons behind a soon-to-be Vezina winning goalie when I'm already 24.

If Swayman doesn't want to stay for that reason, that's understandable. If he does though then I think you find a way to make that work over the alternative. You can't depend on only Ullmark or any goalie for that matter to be consistent from year to year. I think it might be harder for the Bruins to find another suitable goalie especially if we're talking about replacing your two top centers over moving him as part of it. That is unless he wants to move on. The issue there though is that it's difficult to imagine finding any team that has a center available for a goalie. Even someone like Swayman with his age and likely contract level isn't going to return a top center on his own.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

True, that's why I said earlier in the thread I'd keep Swayman and sell high on Ullmark.

Get a good young piece or 1st round pick on the 10th OA range back and free up 5m in space

You'll have similar issues with trying to sell high on Ullmark. The optics of that, especially if you also win a Cup, seem pretty bad. I think you can cut a little on the wing in Boston before you worry about the goaltending. For instance, I'd get rid of DeBrusk before I got rid of either goalie.

 

[Dr Quincy]

As it is you're gonna see guys like Gryz, Coyle, Forbort moved for space

The market for that level of player is going to be flooded. I'm not sure they get buyers for all 3 of them without there being a sweetener.

 

[DKH]

Buffalo has Levi. He’s legit good - sadly

 

[KillerMillerTime]

It’s a good thing you aren’t GM of Buffalo.

Just for duscussions sake, how about DeBrusk, Frederic & Swayman for Couzens & Buffalo '24 #1.?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Which is my im on board with the trading Ullmark before Swayman if it does come to trading one of the goalies.

There aren't any top 6C available that we would be able to afford barring them having some kind of random great season with us or them taking a massive discount.

Trading Forbort and getting rid of Reilly has to happen even before finding a top 6C replacement. We simply don't have the money available as is.

Zacha can potentially fill in at 2C and you hope one of the young guys can make the jump to a top 6W or Frederic keeps improving, which would be a massive help.

A lot is going to depend on how much the Cap goes up and/or what kind of offers teams will give the Bruins for either goalie.

Either way, we don't "need" to trade either goalie, but I'm not sure we have the luxury of having a guy making $4-5M sitting on the bench half of the games.


100% Debrusk is not being moved before either goalie. Especially at his cap hit.

DeBrusk is probably the one that you'd get the most value out of while being the easiest to replace internally or cheaply if it's external. Swayman or Ullmark will not directly address anything you'd need to address if say Bergeron and Krejci are done. And you could get a cheap alternative in net but they likely wouldn't be anywhere near as reliable. Though I understand the desire to keep DeBrusk too. There's plenty to like about his play and contract for short term competition.

 

[wintersej]

DeBrusk is probably the one that you'd get the most value out of while being the easiest to replace internally or cheaply if it's external. Swayman or Ullmark will not directly address anything you'd need to address if say Bergeron and Krejci are done. And you could get a cheap alternative in net but they likely wouldn't be anywhere near as reliable. Though I understand the desire to keep DeBrusk too. There's plenty to like about his play and contract for short term competition.

Yeah DeBrusk is certainly someone that could be on the table. But, its all really moot until 1) we know the exact cap figure, 2) know how the Bruins season ends this year, 3) know what the deal is with Bergeron/Krejci.

What the Bruins have to do next year looks a lot different if its a 1 million increase or if Walsh and Bettman come together on spreading out the cap increases sooner. And it looks a lot different if they win it all and Bergeron and Krejci ride off into the sunset.

Its just too early to talk about anything Bruins trade related.

Besides, Bruins fans have more important (and joyful!) things to talk about that the mayhem that is happening to this roster in the summer.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

There isn't really a precedent no but at the same time I can't remember a time where a goalie looked like he was about to be supplanted by his younger counterpart but instead had a random Hart worthy season at 29.

I don't think Boston will move a goalie yet, but if there ends up being a cap crunch and someone needs to go or Swayman demands #1 duties (even more unlikely) I certainly look at what's out there for Ullmark first

Would have been interesting to see what Sweeney could have gotten at the TDL with Edmonton for Swayman.

Lysell - the guy who was a black hole of offense at the WJC this year when Rosen put up points? I watched Lysell and he’s fine at making plays on his own and then coughing up the puck/not using his teammates at all - was not good at all at anything beyond that. Lots of individual flash with no substance/ production.

Also mittelstadt has had no recent questions on work ethic so not sure where you are getting that? He is in very good shape and was so last year before unfortunately getting tons of injuries. Also not sure what you mean by your 49 pt 3rd line comment - isn’t 49 in the range of 50 with 12 games left? If he’s better than a 3 but not a true 2 - isn’t that middle 6? Seems like a lot of words to say nothing…

Lysell has had a good AHL year so that is far more important.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Theres no one anywhere close to as good as Debrusk in the system and thats a much bigger loss than our backup goalie.

Were already going to lose Clifton, Krejci, Bergeron, Forbort, maybe Gryz and Bertuzzi and Orlov.

Taking away Debrusk away as well leaves that offense in absolute shambles

Marchand X - X
Zacha - X - Pasta
Hall - Coyle - Frederic

Losing Debrusk is not an option at this point to keep a luxury (Swayman) whos only going to play like 35 of your games

Bergeron is more likely than not coming back next year.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Theres no one anywhere close to as good as Debrusk in the system and thats a much bigger loss than our backup goalie.

Were already going to lose Clifton, Krejci, Bergeron, Forbort, maybe Gryz and Bertuzzi and Orlov.

Taking away Debrusk away as well leaves that offense in absolute shambles

Marchand X - X
Zacha - X - Pasta
Hall - Coyle - Frederic

Losing Debrusk is not an option at this point to keep a luxury (Swayman) whos only going to play like 35 of your games

Probably not but winger is always the easiest to replace compared to other positions. If you're already talking about losing Bergeron and Krejci, your defensive efforts are probably not going to be as good. Compounding that by asking Ullmark to shoulder that load is probably not the best idea if you can prevent it. Swayman isn't a pure backup. He's a 1B putting on a dominant performance. I have more confidence in Boston being able to replace just Bergeron and Krejci than those two and what they're getting out of Swayman. There's a lot of goals against you're adding to the ledger dropping all three of those guys.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Losing Bergeron and Krejci loses more goals for than it does against though, which is the issue. That's compounded more if Debrusk is traded

I think their impact on goals against outpaces their impact for goals for especially the way Boston plays. Losing players with that sort of impact tends to hurt the defense before it hurts the offense.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Shh. According to many of your fellow Bruins fans, they can sign 10 players, including top 2 centers with about 6 million dollars they’ll have left over after they pay Swayman.

Krejci and Bergeron signed for what 3.5M total with their bonuses carrying over to '23-24. Wouldn't be shocked if Bergeron does it again. Is there anything in the cap preventing back to back bonus contracts that slide yty?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Didn't know that, but a 16 team NTC might as well be a NMC when you're talking about the goalie position, since there's only 32 spots in the league for starters and most teams have that position filled already.

Ullmark can easily pick his 16 teams to prevent the Bruins from being able to deal him, should he decide he wants to stay in Boston.



It's possible but they are going to have some cap issues this off-season and if I'm Swayman there's no way I'm agreeing to go through the Schneider treatment and play two more seasons behind a soon-to-be Vezina winning goalie when I'm already 24.

Boston should look at Chicago & Edmonton as trade candidates. In reality no way
Boston I buffalo are trade partners.

 

[ON3M4N]

Didn't know that, but a 16 team NTC might as well be a NMC when you're talking about the goalie position, since there's only 32 spots in the league for starters and most teams have that position filled already.

Ullmark can easily pick his 16 teams to prevent the Bruins from being able to deal him, should he decide he wants to stay in Boston.



It's possible but they are going to have some cap issues this off-season and if I'm Swayman there's no way I'm agreeing to go through the Schneider treatment and play two more seasons behind a soon-to-be Vezina winning goalie when I'm already 24.

Last year they both had 39 starts. This year Ullmark has more starts but Swayman also missed time with an injury and Ullmark started all but 1 game while Swayman was out. They've pretty much been every other game when Swayman is healthy.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Boston is cap tight if Ottawa pushes it to 4M AAV boston might not be able to match it.

Not a chance they don't match. None!!!

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Why are you confused? Young 20s C for young 20s G.

Buffalo needs a goalie moving forward, Boston needs C moving forward.

Buffalo has Tage, Bruins have Ullmark.

That’s not how goalies work.

Just look at Ullmark- borderline starter for the Sabres, suddenly gold for the Bruins. Do you really think he suddenly got better? Or did the system around him suddenly showcase his skills?