Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

[MarkusKetterer]

In 19-20 Skinner paced for a little over 19 goals in a full season. Was it low? Yes. He still averaged 3.1 shots per game which was only slightly below what he averaged the previous season where he scored 40. He did this while getting 2 minutes of ice-time less per game. Skinner is and always has been a volume shooter, he simply had a low shooting percentage that season. To frame it like he wasn't trying is just ridiculous.

20-21 he saw his shots per game drop down to 2.1. This is while he was stapled to the 4th line getting 14 minutes per game. He was playing with guys who had very little in the way of offensive ability. Having proper linemates is essential for most goal scorers. You need offensive linemates that help open up the ice and create space for each other.

It's not a coincidence his shooting percentages went up this past season. He was playing with 2 guys who are also dangerous shooters in Tage and Tuch. But once again, go to the same drum you constantly beat. Probably Pegulas fault somehow.

This year he was actually shooting from closer to the net than the previous two seasons. I’m pretty sure he was hampered by his ankle injury he suffered in his 40 goal year that he finally fully recovered from.

He’s not the most accurate of shooters, but 10-15 of extra room is a difference between a shot still rising versus falling.

 

[Butt Ox]

"Because, it's easier and cheaper to fire a coach than trade your big ass contract. I have a full NMC, the coach doesn't"

Was that truly the impetus for having RK sacked? The contractual obligations owed Jeff Skinner? Slap the C on him right now. Bravo Skinny.

 

[Bendium]

"Ok kids, gather round, let me teach you the 1st lesson of earning a big NHL contract"
"Thanks Mr Skinner"
"Ok kids, so what do you do if the coach doesn't like you"
"Play hard anyways!"
"Sorry Casey, no, that isn't correct. The question is: is it a contract year or not. If not, you ignore what the coach says and do nothing"
"Why is that Mr Skinner"
"Because, it's easier and cheaper to fire a coach than trade your big ass contract. I have a full NMC, the coach doesn't"
"Mr Skinner, what do we do after we get our big contract"
"Take the summer off, shop for fancy cars and a nice new house"
"What about off season training"
"Well, that depends, how long is your new contract"
"I dunno, let's say 8 years"
"Yeah kids, you don't do shit, what are they gonna do, trade you immediately?"
"Won't the fans and ownership be mad"
"Of course, but you know what? You care much less about people being mad when you are cashing your gigantic checks"

Swing and a miss. Hogwash.

Skinner is an excellent hockey player who makes this team better. Is he overpaid a touch? Sure, but that was the price at the time.

Skinner is an emotional player. When he gets going and he is having fun with good linemates, his emotion positively effects the team. He gets chattering and jawboning the other team, which gets them unfocused, but makes Jeff better. It also infects the team. He is our top goal scorer and our top penalty drawer. Drawing a penalty is like getting a tertiary assist. I love watching him when he is on his game and his sh*t eating grin is lighting up the ice.

Now stick him in a negative culture, and a coach trying to change him by slapping his nose with the newspaper, and the negative emotion will have the opposite effect.

Emotion is how Jeff leads. Donnie knew that, and put him back in a situation to lead and succeed. Magic.

 

[buffalowing88]

Swing and a miss. Hogwash.

Skinner is an excellent hockey player who makes this team better. Is he overpaid a touch? Sure, but that was the price at the time.

Skinner is an emotional player. When he gets going and he is having fun with good linemates, his emotion positively effects the team. He gets chattering and jawboning the other team, which gets them unfocused, but makes Jeff better. It also infects the team. He is our top goal scorer and our top penalty drawer. Drawing a penalty is like getting a tertiary assist. I love watching him when he is on his game and his sh*t eating grin is lighting up the ice.

Now stick him in a negative culture, and a coach trying to change him by slapping his nose with the newspaper, and the negative emotion will have the opposite effect.

Emotion is how Jeff leads. Donnie knew that, and put him back in a situation to lead and succeed. Magic.

Did he get your Valentines card this past February?

Jesus, he's fine.

We're stuck with him whether he's fine or not but he seems to have improved.

If we could ever find a suitor for him I would love to trade him in a minute but sure, he's fine for now. He's more valuable to a team making a playoff push than a team with a glut of U-25 forwards who could all turn out to be something better (and cheaper) for awhile.

 

[TehDoak]

Was that truly the impetus for having RK sacked? The contractual obligations owed Jeff Skinner? Slap the C on him right now. Bravo Skinny.

If skinner scores 30 goals in RKs first season we are a playoff team. No idea if that saves RKs ass the next season when the wheels fell off though.

Swing and a miss. Hogwash.

Skinner is an excellent hockey player who makes this team better. Is he overpaid a touch? Sure, but that was the price at the time.

Skinner is an emotional player. When he gets going and he is having fun with good linemates, his emotion positively effects the team. He gets chattering and jawboning the other team, which gets them unfocused, but makes Jeff better. It also infects the team. He is our top goal scorer and our top penalty drawer. Drawing a penalty is like getting a tertiary assist. I love watching him when he is on his game and his sh*t eating grin is lighting up the ice.

Now stick him in a negative culture, and a coach trying to change him by slapping his nose with the newspaper, and the negative emotion will have the opposite effect.

Emotion is how Jeff leads. Donnie knew that, and put him back in a situation to lead and succeed. Magic.

Lol. Imagine if you had a job and you only had show up when you got the warm fuzzies. Skinner has been wildly inconsistent from year to year his whole career. He has one of the worst contracts in the NHL. He could easily be a terrible waste of space next year or he could be a 40 goal guy. No one knows.

 

[haseoke39]

Yeah, I'm more on the anti skinner train here, myself. One of the worst contracts in the league for a guy who vacillates pretty wildly in production and doesn't play a 200ft game. He'll be bought out when it's time, I hope.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Did he get your Valentines card this past February?

Jesus, he's fine.

We're stuck with him whether he's fine or not but he seems to have improved.

If we could ever find a suitor for him I would love to trade him in a minute but sure, he's fine for now. He's more valuable to a team making a playoff push than a team with a glut of U-25 forwards who could all turn out to be something better (and cheaper) for awhile.

Even at the time, the deal should have been $7.5 M/year. Tops. Sabres bid against themselves. They had the eighth year. Zero way any other team would have given Skinner $60 M over 7, which implies $8.57 M per year. Once you get to $72 M, it implies some time would have given him $10.3 over seven. That's insane.

It really boggles the mind that the Pegulas could get duped into this and makes me glad Kevyn Adams seems to be guiding them. Even the Ralph Kruger contract at 3 x $3.75 M per year is insane. Doesn't count against cap, but ownership in Buffalo cannot negotiate at all. It's maybe too micro for billionaires. I don't know.

I pray Pegulas just stay away from contracts.

 

[haseoke39]

Double post.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Yeah, I'm more on the anti skinner train here, myself. One of the worst contracts in the league for a guy who vacillates pretty wildly in production and doesn't play a 200ft game. He'll be bought out when it's time, I hope.

Yea I don't that anyone here is really arguing that Skinner is worth 9 million a year, or that he's more than a fairly 1 dimensional player. It doesn't mean he can't be a good leader or mentor for younger players however. He can still pass along knowledge. His ability to generate shots on goal is something that he could help younger guys with, and the things that work for him to get shots through traffic. Don't know that anyone is going to ask him how to properly defend a 2 on 1 or anything like that.

If the Sabres are stuck with the contract, they may as well try to get everything they can from him.

 

[sabremike]

If you are seriously going to try and argue that Jeff wasn't being killed by Ralph please explain how under his tutelage Dahlin fell straight off a cliff and then after he was sacked Dahlin went back to looking like a future Norris Trophy winner?

 

[Bendium]

To me, the problem is with the contract they gave him.......NOT with Skinner. Skinner is what he is. He was that before the contract. He IS a very valuable hockey player if used right. SO....when you sign him to that long term deal you are making a commitment to put him in a position to live up to it. The second they signed him they took away all the things that make him work. Not Jeff's fault. Expecting him to be a play driving 2-way, 200-ft power forward that can drive any line regardless of linemates....is just silly.

Granato gave him back the conditions he needs to perform....and so he performed. RK was a disaster!

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Blame Botts for the contract.

Thank Skinner for going from 7 to 33 goals after getting the stench of Kruger out of his nostrils.

Looking forward to another 30G+ season.

 

[TehDoak]

If you are seriously going to try and argue that Jeff wasn't being killed by Ralph please explain how under his tutelage Dahlin fell straight off a cliff and then after he was sacked Dahlin went back to looking like a future Norris Trophy winner?

By all accounts, Skinner earned the wrath of Krueger by his play over two seasons. Krueger certainly didn't set him up to succeed, however.

In comparing Dahlin to Skinner under Krueger....

Dahlin went from 1.5 pt/60 in year 1 (Housely) to 2.1 pt/60 in year 2 (Krueger)

Skinner went from 2.5 pt/60 to 1.4 pt/60 under Krueger in his first season

And this isn't me saying Krueger is a good coach. I thought he was a terrible hire from day 1.

What I'm saying is you can't blame Krueger for Skinner's issues. He's pulled this disappearing for a season act before.

Just because he had a good year last year doesn't mean you can forget the two previous.

He's a wildly inconsistent forward.

Will he perform better with better deployments/usage? Sure. Does that explain him completely falling off the map for 2 entire seasons? No.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Thank you Ignore User option.

 

[jc17]

All this because he said he would have an open ear for young guys, in an interview?


Did I miss the part he was named captain?

 

[sabremike]

By all accounts, Skinner earned the wrath of Krueger by his play over two seasons. Krueger certainly didn't set him up to succeed, however.

In comparing Dahlin to Skinner under Krueger....

Dahlin went from 1.5 pt/60 in year 1 (Housely) to 2.1 pt/60 in year 2 (Krueger)

Skinner went from 2.5 pt/60 to 1.4 pt/60 under Krueger in his first season

And this isn't me saying Krueger is a good coach. I thought he was a terrible hire from day 1.

What I'm saying is you can't blame Krueger for Skinner's issues. He's pulled this disappearing for a season act before.

Just because he had a good year last year doesn't mean you can forget the two previous.

He's a wildly inconsistent forward.

Will he perform better with better deployments/usage? Sure. Does that explain him completely falling off the map for 2 entire seasons? No.

That comment on Dahlin is a perfect example of lying with statistics. No sane person would argue Dahlin improved under Ralph, no sane person would argue his quality of play didn't plummet off a cliff under Ralph and no sane person would argue Dom didn't cause him to do a 180 and go back to elite level player.

 

[Jim Bob]

You know it is the dead part of the offseason when we are debating Skinner and his contract.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

That comment on Dahlin is a perfect example of lying with statistics. No sane person would argue Dahlin improved under Ralph, no sane person would argue his quality of play didn't plummet off a cliff under Ralph and no sane person would argue Dom didn't cause him to do a 180 and go back to elite level player.

It also ignores year 2 of Ralph.

18-19 P/60 - Skinner 2.5 / Dahlin 1.5
19-20 P/60 - Skinner 1.4 / Dahlin 2.1
20-21 P/60 - Skinner 1.1 / Dahlin 1.1

Skinner actually put up more shots per 60 in year 1 of Ralph than he did the prior year when he scored 40. He was generating chances, however his shooting percentage plummeted. His shooting percentages have always fluctuated during his career so it's nothing new. It does not involve lack of effort or lack of trying. Skinner has been fairly consistent throughout his career in shot generation, but he's not a sniper like a Stamkos or Matthews. He's more like Marchessault or Seguin in terms of shooting who also have large fluctuations in shooting percentages.

18-19 S/60 - Skinner 10.6
19-20 S/60 - Skinner 11.3
20-21 S/60 - Skinner 8.7 (only time he's been below 10 since his rookie season)

 

[JLewyB]

If you dont like Jeff Skinner the hockey player then you have the same opinion as Ralph Kreuger. Dont be like Kreuger…ever.

 

[haseoke39]

You know it is the dead part of the offseason when we are debating Skinner and his contract.

On hockey board, we talk about players and salaries. It will continue!

 

[Irie]

By all accounts, Skinner earned the wrath of Krueger by his play over two seasons. Krueger certainly didn't set him up to succeed, however.

In comparing Dahlin to Skinner under Krueger....

Dahlin went from 1.5 pt/60 in year 1 (Housely) to 2.1 pt/60 in year 2 (Krueger)

Skinner went from 2.5 pt/60 to 1.4 pt/60 under Krueger in his first season

And this isn't me saying Krueger is a good coach. I thought he was a terrible hire from day 1.

What I'm saying is you can't blame Krueger for Skinner's issues. He's pulled this disappearing for a season act before.

Just because he had a good year last year doesn't mean you can forget the two previous.

He's a wildly inconsistent forward.

Will he perform better with better deployments/usage? Sure. Does that explain him completely falling off the map for 2 entire seasons? No.

You are completely ignoring the linemates issue

That is the story with skinner.

How can you pretend that Eichel/Reinhart vs Sheahan/Lazar as linemates is not the huge reason Skinners production fell off?!?

Please present a solid explanation why Skinners production should be the same in the two deployment situations, or stop posting this nonsense.

I know you will ignore this post because it completely unravels your narrative.

 

[TehDoak]

All this because he said he would have an open ear for young guys, in an interview?


Did I miss the part he was named captain?

All this because I made a satirical post about Jeff Skinner not showing up for seasons at a time and people thought it was mean.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

All this because I made a satirical post about Jeff Skinner not showing up for seasons at a time and people thought it was mean.

Well it likely would have ended if you responded to the initial reaction saying it was a satirical post, but you instead doubled down on it.

 

[TehDoak]

Well it likely would have ended if you responded to the initial reaction saying it was a satirical post, but you instead doubled down on it.

Because of posters jumping to the defense of a winger who we paid 20M to score 37 points in 100+ over 2 seasons.

I don't care if he scored 50 goals last year, you can't take a two year siesta while being one of the highest paid players in the league and blame the coach.

In the end I guess the past is the past and it doesn't do a bunch of good to re-litigate things. But man people have a short memory.

It isn't contradictory to say Krueger was a bad coach AND that Skinner was terrible. They aren't mutually exclusive. But just because Krueger was a bad coach, it doesn't suddenly excuse Skinner's awfulness.

 

[Ace]

Hmmm…

Skinner good before Krueger…Skinner good after Krueger…Skinner bad with Krueger…

The only possible conclusion is that Skinner is the problem.

Now I will triple down on it with another condescending script that posits he is a lazy person who only cares about money. Because despite my best efforts to make you forget…that is what started this.

Instead of owning up to that absolute bullshit…I will frame an argument where everyone who disagrees is saying Jeff Skinner is the best player of all time.