Value of: Jeff Petry (with or without retention)

[NewEraGM]

These are the players with a cap hit under 3M which would be the same as Petry with 50% retained. Only 2 players had a better PPG at that cap hit and both come with significant defensive issues (deangelo and Gustafson). Petry is a far better defender than either one of them.

The options that exist to get a under 3M cap hit, right hand defender are very slim and Petry is by far the best of the group.

 

[Captain Mountain]

My opinion from the moment the trade happened, knowing his situation and who he is as a player now, compared to 3-4 years ago, is that he’s probably staying in Montreal for the two years, to be that “fit in the locker room” you just mentioned.

All because of one very speculative tweet, with no inside information whatsoever, everyone just jumped on this retention, flipping him for a 2nd thing, and it’s likely just not in the cards.

We’re already 3 days into this and if they had a deal, or it was going to be so easy to flip him, like people were saying, it would’ve happened already.

He’s lost a visible step, and the problem is, he hasn’t adjusted his game yet. Much like Dumba hasn’t adjusted his game, and we seen how Minnesota was getting no calls on him at the deadline and he just had to sign in Arizona. We also seen how it just took the Pens 6 weeks to manufacture a trade for Petry with retention.

Contenders are after efficient, responsible and no-nonsense role players on the blue line. Not guys who’ve lost a step but still try being the player they once were. The unforced turnovers kill you in the playoffs.

He’s much closer to a Dumba when it comes to failing to adjust after losing a step.. Where contenders much prefer to spend their assets on a McCabe, Giordano, Maatta, and Martinez, who’ve adjusted their games and became efficient, responsible role players.

If he goes to Montreal and takes on that mentor role, like Maatta did in Detroit last year, and adjusts his game, no longer forcing errors because he’s trying to do too much, they can absolutely get a 2nd or 3rd for him.

I just don’t think that’s in the cards right now and I’ve watched him play for 20+ years.. He can’t do it anymore. He’s not that same player.
There’s a reason Pittsburgh chose to get rid of him instead of Pettersson. You just don’t know what you’re going to get from Petry game to game.

I wouldn't go that far for a few reasons:

-It wasn't one tweet, it was a few of the more respected Habs media guys (who also know Petry well considering he's been a Hab for 8 seasons) and Chris Johnston
-Most of the commentary was that if he's traded then it wont necessarily going to be an off-season thing
-Its not that its "so easy to flip him", its that Montreal would want positive value for him
-I suspect Pittsburgh chose to get rid of him over Pettersson partially because he's younger, is a left D, and has a lower cap hit (even accounting for the retention). But mostly because having Petry as your 3rd best RD (with Karlsson and Letang ahead) and PO Joseph as your 2nd best LD is awful roster construction and that Karlsson does a lot of what Petry does at a significantly higher level.

I'm not even sure I get what you're saying about Petry not adjusting when he has been adjusting his role. He still produces, and he's still a good in transition and a rush defender. But he's also started playing the body more and is carrying the puck less. He also dramatically cut down on his number of takeaways. Comparing him to Dumba (who btw still got an AAV of 3.9 mil) who provides much less right now is a little weird.

He's not Montreal's Maatta comparable, Savard is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

too much of a potential headache for just a 2nd round pick

Somewhat fair. That was what I was pondering about too. Is the 2nd rounder worth the cap hits.

Lets break it down...
* Hoffman + Pitlick = $5.6M.
* Petry coming to the Habs with retention + DeSmith = $6.4875M
* Petry going to the Oilers with 50% retention + Ceci = $5.6M

Imagine going from $5.6M with Hoffman and Pitlick to $5.6M with Ceci and DeSmith but you added two 2nd rounders.... and then proceed to complain about it?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Remove Ceci and insert Foegele, and a 2nd.
The Oilers are trying to improve their blueline and that doesn't work when trading a younger healthier defenseman. Even though Ceci wasn't as good as the previous season he is still a fine 2nd pair defenseman(even though he played 1st pair ES/PK last 2 seasons)

Nurse - Ceci
Ekholm - Bouchard*
Kulak - Petry
Broberg - Desharnais(I'm guessing at least one of them would be moved for forward depth)

*Bouchard isn't ready for top pairing ES minutes yet

Workable but not sure if the Habs want to take on the cap hits for a 2nd rounder that is mid to back of the bus. Don't really care about the difference between Ceci or Foegele.

I'm curious to know what Hughes's plan is on Petry. Would we make that move to add a 2nd? Possible. Petry does have decent value at 50% retention but he is approaching the 35+ years. Still skates well so we will see. I do see Petry helping the Oilers if we can agree on the futures coming to the Habs. Habs don't really need cap space in the next season or two. It's after that where we might rise up and want to spend our cap on key assets.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Probably very few teams that can fit him in without moving someone out. That does not mean we have to take that someone. If we retain Max on Petry (2.34M) and take someone like Ceci back at 3.25M that is $5.6M of Cap space that we are eating for 2 years and a retention slot tied up for 2 years. That will cost way more than a 2nd.

I don't think Ceci is better than any of Savard, Barron, Kovacevic on the right side. Petry is. I would rather keep Petry and move him at the deadline when teams will be able to fit him in easier. As I said Edm is probably on his No Trade list anyway.

No need to move Petry just for the sake of moving him. The offer will come. wait for someone to get into injury problems. The one thing Hughes has shown is patience... he will wait and he should wait.

We added a 2nd to take on Petry and DeSmith and you don't think we can add another 2nd by offloading Petry and taking on another contract that is similar? Basically, this ends up being Hoffman and Pitlick for DeSmith, two 2nd rounders, and a cap hit (Ceci type). I think this is as good as it gets when you started with Hoffman. We were not going to be able to offload Hoffman with no contract coming back and that applies to Petry as well.

Petry has value and even more at 50% retention but lets face it. He's age 35-37 in the last two years. Not much cap space in the NHL at the moment so hearing what you are saying, you might as well keep Petry and see where it goes. And hope he is not disgruntled in our locker room because his wife don't want to be in Montreal.

 

[Mersss]

Remove Ceci and insert Foegele, and a 2nd.
The Oilers are trying to improve their blueline and that doesn't work when trading a younger healthier defenseman. Even though Ceci wasn't as good as the previous season he is still a fine 2nd pair defenseman(even though he played 1st pair ES/PK last 2 seasons)

Nurse - Ceci
Ekholm - Bouchard*
Kulak - Petry
Broberg - Desharnais(I'm guessing at least one of them would be moved for forward depth)

*Bouchard isn't ready for top pairing ES minutes yet

The 2nd is what it'd takes for the Habs to help the Oilers take on that cap dump Foegele is.

What are Oilers actually trading for Petry then?

 

[CDN24]

Somewhat fair. That was what I was pondering about too. Is the 2nd rounder worth the cap hits.

Lets break it down...
* Hoffman + Pitlick = $5.6M.
* Petry coming to the Habs with retention + DeSmith = $6.4875M
* Petry going to the Oilers with 50% retention + Ceci = $5.6M

Imagine going from $5.6M with Hoffman and Pitlick to $5.6M with Ceci and DeSmith but you added two 2nd rounders.... and then proceed to complain about it?

Responding to this one and not your response to me but this one has the numbers in it. I think we have to separate the trade that acquired Petry from any trade to flip him. yes they are related but flipping him now must be judged on its on merits. Need to remember that Hoffman/Pitlick and Desmith are 1 yr deals (Petry and Ceci) are 2 yr deals. for cap hit considerations it makes a difference. But Cap hit either year is not a big consideration we have enough. Getting fair value for a 2 yr retention slot is important.

Really before the Hoffman trade it is only Hoffmans 4.5M cap hit as Pitlick was likely to be buried in Laval with a cap hit under the max you can bury of $1150K. Habs essentially replaced a 4.5M 1 year hit in Hoffman with a 2yr hit at 4.7M for Petry.

Now if we move Petry out at 50% for Ceci we have 2.35M of Petry and 3.25M of Ceci both for 2 years so I am replacing the 4.7 of Petry wityh 5.6M for 2 years. I am taking on an additional $1M roughly for 2 years and taking back the lessor D man and giving up a valuable retention slot I can use at the deadline this yr or next on players like Monahan/Savard/Dvorak. That is worth more than a 2nd round pick to me.

I would not be against acquiring Ceci, but I want more than a 2nd to give you Petry at 2.35m, burn my retention slot and carry both the contract and valuable roster slot that Ceci takes up for a 2nd round pick. I can't use another retention slot to rid myself of Ceci and i don't really want him. Ceci becomes the new Hoffman if I do this except he is under contract for 2 years not one.

I would not take that deal for Petry, fairly confident i get more or have to take on less if i wait.

I try to move him before season starts without taking a body back, if I can't I wait and try to get my 2nd at the deadline

 

[pth2]

Habs/Oilers possible trade
* Petry (50% retention.. $2.34M)
for
* Ceci (2 years left at $3.25M)
* Oilers 2026 2nd

Saves the Oilers almost $1M to help sign Bouchard to a bridge
Ekholm / Bouchard
Nurse / Petry
Kulak / Desharnais

Habs gain a future 2nd. Ceci probably is depth for us and depending on how he does with us, maybe we buy him out next summer.

Is this worth it for both sides? Not sure. 2nd rounders have value but so does cap space. Does Petry fit the Oilers and is a good partner for Nurse? Also not sure.

With a Ceci buyout this costs the Habs a lot of capspace in 24-25, just when Hughes indicated he didn't want to take useless cap hits.

I could see Montreal take a 1 year hit, but not two years.

 

[Petes2424]

Ceci is actually closer to the type of Dman the Oilers want to replace Ceci with, than Petry is. So that’s probably not happening unless Kenny is on another bender, convincing himself he can change players again.

Montreal is not a bad spot for Petry and he likely sees it that way.

I do think however, there’s something to the whole Hughes/Petry not commenting thing, so we shall see. I know Petry isn’t talking to anyone right now. Suggesting he’s not a happy camper, because he just went through this entire mess in Pittsburgh for 2 months, just to start the whole process again. Not to mention last summer with Montreal. So he has to be frustrated.

The guy just wants to be in a comfortable spot for 2 years to finish his career. Guarantee his NTC makes it very hard to trade him without his consent, and he will play hardball to get what he wants.

People thinking it’s simply 15 teams? It doesn’t work that way. If you’re making any significant money these days, you can pretty much submit a list that makes it very hard to trade you. Add in he’s a RHD, it’s even easier to submit a list that makes it very hard to move him without his approval.

Right off the bat he leaves off the teams he’d prefer to go to, Detroit, Toronto, Buffalo, Columbus… Then Pittsburgh, and he’s already down to only 11 teams. Then you look at the Cap and RHD already on teams. For example, Carolina and LA aren’t trading for him, so they won’t be on his list.

Guarantee he can get that list down to his 4 preferred destinations and teams at the cap, set on the right side, or both.

You can make it really hard pretty easily. Plus, I’m sure Hughes is trying to find that fit for him too. You don’t want a reputation for doing a veteran player wrong, just for a draft pick. Especially in a situation you’re just acquiring a player to flip him. Fans may like it, but players won’t like it. Montreal is already on enough NTCs… Managers are usually pretty good about not screwing guys over.

In a perfect world, there’s a trade to be made with Detroit, Toronto, Columbus or Buffalo.

 

[NewEraGM]

Somewhat fair. That was what I was pondering about too. Is the 2nd rounder worth the cap hits.

Lets break it down...
* Hoffman + Pitlick = $5.6M.
* Petry coming to the Habs with retention + DeSmith = $6.4875M
* Petry going to the Oilers with 50% retention + Ceci = $5.6M

Imagine going from $5.6M with Hoffman and Pitlick to $5.6M with Ceci and DeSmith but you added two 2nd rounders.... and then proceed to complain about it?

Except Petry won’t waive for Edmonton. He barely wants to be in Canada, let alone Edmonton

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Petry would be a solid addition in Dallas. Ryan Suter struggled on the top pair last season, he could barely keep up with Hieskanen.

 

[BigTomBomber]

Petry would be a solid addition in Dallas. Ryan Suter struggled on the top pair last season, he could barely keep up with Hieskanen.

Yeah, thats not exactly accurate. Miller was Miro’s primary partner (at least for the first 60 games), although he was 5th in 5v5 avg time on ice. Suter’s primary partner in the reg season was Lundkvist (the rookie) before he was benched for the last month + playoffs

As for the playoffs…might want to go back and look at some of those analytics. In nearly every major 5v5 stat, Suter without Miro >> Miro + Suter >> Miro without Suter. I’m not necessarily suggesting Suter was better than him (its pretty close imo) but “barely keep up” is just wrong

 

[Habs Halifax]

Except Petry won’t waive for Edmonton. He barely wants to be in Canada, let alone Edmonton

Very possible he has the Oilers on his list. Maybe he would prefer the Oilers vs the Habs at this point and accept a trade to the Oilers (if they are on his list)?

With a Ceci buyout this costs the Habs a lot of capspace in 24-25, just when Hughes indicated he didn't want to take useless cap hits.

I could see Montreal take a 1 year hit, but not two years.

Yeah, I think the 1 year cap dump makes more sense for sure but I just don't see Petry being easy to move. NTC list of teams and also teams just don't have cap space.

Responding to this one and not your response to me but this one has the numbers in it. I think we have to separate the trade that acquired Petry from any trade to flip him. yes they are related but flipping him now must be judged on its on merits. Need to remember that Hoffman/Pitlick and Desmith are 1 yr deals (Petry and Ceci) are 2 yr deals. for cap hit considerations it makes a difference. But Cap hit either year is not a big consideration we have enough. Getting fair value for a 2 yr retention slot is important.

Really before the Hoffman trade it is only Hoffmans 4.5M cap hit as Pitlick was likely to be buried in Laval with a cap hit under the max you can bury of $1150K. Habs essentially replaced a 4.5M 1 year hit in Hoffman with a 2yr hit at 4.7M for Petry.

Now if we move Petry out at 50% for Ceci we have 2.35M of Petry and 3.25M of Ceci both for 2 years so I am replacing the 4.7 of Petry wityh 5.6M for 2 years. I am taking on an additional $1M roughly for 2 years and taking back the lessor D man and giving up a valuable retention slot I can use at the deadline this yr or next on players like Monahan/Savard/Dvorak. That is worth more than a 2nd round pick to me.

I would not be against acquiring Ceci, but I want more than a 2nd to give you Petry at 2.35m, burn my retention slot and carry both the contract and valuable roster slot that Ceci takes up for a 2nd round pick. I can't use another retention slot to rid myself of Ceci and i don't really want him. Ceci becomes the new Hoffman if I do this except he is under contract for 2 years not one.

I would not take that deal for Petry, fairly confident i get more or have to take on less if i wait.

I try to move him before season starts without taking a body back, if I can't I wait and try to get my 2nd at the deadline

Plan A: Move Petry at full cap hit before the season. Low probability.

Plan B: Move Petry at 50% retention and get some value and not take a contract back. Low probability but higher than plan A.

Plan C: Move Petry at 50% retention and take a contract back but also get valuable futures for doing it. Higher probability than Plan B.

Plan D: Petry plays in Montreal this year. And we try to move him during the season or next off season. Highest probability?

 

[HabsTown]

With the Dach and Newhook trades, I could see Petry 50% retained to Florida for Denisenko + 2nd/3rd pick.

 

[The Great Weal]

With the Dach and Newhook trades, I could see Petry 50% retained to Florida for Denisenko + 2nd/3rd pick.

We aren't retaining 50% on Petry to get an AHLer+3rd.

 

[sansabri]

With the Dach and Newhook trades, I could see Petry 50% retained to Florida for Denisenko + 2nd/3rd pick.

2018 draft? nah

 

[Homesick]

The 2nd is what it'd takes for the Habs to help the Oilers take on that cap dump Foegele is.

What are Oilers actually trading for Petry then?

Foegele is an excellent ES/Penalty killer that's very productive with bottom 6 linemates.
Foegele would actually be tied for 2nd with 27 ES points for the Habs.

 

[Turin]

These are the players with a cap hit under 3M which would be the same as Petry with 50% retained. Only 2 players had a better PPG at that cap hit and both come with significant defensive issues (deangelo and Gustafson). Petry is a far better defender than either one of them.

The options that exist to get a under 3M cap hit, right hand defender are very slim and Petry is by far the best of the group.
View attachment 735031

Disagree. DeMelo, DeAngelo and Schultz arguably have more utility to a team than Petry does, who at this point in his career (if last year was any indication) doesn't do anything particularly well anymore. He doesn't have the flaws that a guy like TDA would have - but he doesn't have any special utility either.

 

[Mersss]

Foegele is an excellent ES/Penalty killer that's very productive with bottom 6 linemates.
Foegele would actually be tied for 2nd with 27 ES points for the Habs.

Foegele is a 4th liner paid 3.5m. Don't care about his ES totals we care about what he is (4th liner) and his salary.

A cone could probably get 20pts feeding of the few times he's on ice with McDavid

 

[Homesick]

Foegele is a 4th liner paid 3.5m. Don't care about his ES totals we care about what he is (4th liner) and his salary.

A cone could probably get 20pts feeding of the few times he's on ice with McDavid

He makes 2.75m and had a total of two points playing with McDavid last season.
He played 3rd line minutes last year with Janmark and McLeod(kind of tough to crack the Oilers top 6)

 

[MeHateHe]

A few have made a little hay about the fact the club hasn't 'introduced' Petry to local media since the trade. This isn't that surprising since he's a known entity in Montreal. But has Petry spoken to any Montreal media since the trade? Two weeks of silence is a little odd.

 

[bucks_oil]

Foegele is a 4th liner paid 3.5m. Don't care about his ES totals we care about what he is (4th liner) and his salary.

A cone could probably get 20pts feeding of the few times he's on ice with McDavid

Factual and subjective errors in your last few posts. As Homesick has also pointed out:

Fact: Foegele makes $2.75M
Fact: His contract is expiring. Even if he's $750K overpaid (that is arguable), that is not a) a cap dump, and b) worth a 2nd to take on the contract as you suggested

Subjective error: 27 ES points are 3rd line numbers, not 4th.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

A few have made a little hay about the fact the club hasn't 'introduced' Petry to local media since the trade. This isn't that surprising since he's a known entity in Montreal. But has Petry spoken to any Montreal media since the trade? Two weeks of silence is a little odd.

It's summer and he's rich. Perhaps he's on vacation

 

[Homesick]

It's summer and he's rich. Perhaps he's on vacation

Karlsson is richer and strangely he had time to come over from Sweden to do a little PR

 

[sansabri]

A few have made a little hay about the fact the club hasn't 'introduced' Petry to local media since the trade. This isn't that surprising since he's a known entity in Montreal. But has Petry spoken to any Montreal media since the trade? Two weeks of silence is a little odd.

no, he hasn't been welcome back'd and he hasn't said anything