Proposal: Jeff Petry to the Leafs

[Cobra Commander]

More like this:

Rielly Petry
Gardiner Zaitsev
Dermott Hainsey
Borgman Carrick

But Hainsey shoots left.. has he played On the right side before? Babcock is picky with that, I remember from the last Olympic Gold medal team.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Sandin is kinda bleh.

I don't think he's going to blow anyone away but he's a solid prospect who some like more than others. Some posters here had him in the 15-20 range. There's some 2nd pairing potential there. Not that I want him dealt at all. Those cheap ELC's are crucial for contenders.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

But Hainsey shoots left.. has he played On the right side before? Babcock is picky with that, I remember from the last Olympic Gold medal team.

Hainsey played on the right side most of last season paired with Rielly. He was good there but looked absolutely gassed by the end of the season. Babs overplayed him.

 

[Dog]

I don't think he's going to blow anyone away but he's a solid prospect who some like more than others. Some posters here had him in the 15-20 range. There's some 2nd pairing potential there. Not that I want him dealt at all. Those cheap ELC's are crucial for contenders.

I had him ranked around low 20's but kept hoping he would fall to the leafs. When Toronto traded pick thought he be gone! Really have high hopes for him and Liljegren. This is a big guess but think he will surprise many fans.

 

[Habs Halifax]

saw that you edited this in after I replied. Liljegren actually was compared to Dahlin a lot before their drafts, Dahlin thought of as better even then but Liljegren was thought of as a good enough prospect to get the comparison. Liljegren fell hard in his draft year because he wasn't good, but he had also gotten mono and the scouts didn't know what was him and what was the illness. The biggest thing that came from this year was that the lapses in judgement and terrible processing time that he was displaying in his draft year were gone, which has lead most people to believe that most of that was the mono and not him.

Liljegren hasn't had the AHL year to compare to Beaulieu's first AHL year yet, that will be this coming season. Beaulieu debuted in the AHL as a 19yo in his D+2, Liljegren as an 18yo in his D+1, which is very very rare to the point that there should be very little invested in the measurable results (which set the high water mark for 18yo AHL dmen btw).

Anyway, there's a lot to like about Liljegren's ceiling and current trajectory, he's not a piece that we would include in a deal for a 31yo defenseman imo, it would have to be in a package for a guy who was going to be a long term answer as a top pairing RHD if he were to be on the table

Liljegren is not going to be like Dahlin. He is a good young prospect that needs to develop. Going to take a few years before you see how he ends up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sandin is kinda bleh.

He is solid IMO. Good at both ends of the ice and his compete level is very good. Something that has to be taken in consideration is no team is trading a blue chip or grade A prospect unless they are getting another young asset in return that addresses a team need. So Sandin and a 2019 1st is a package I would take. It's two 1st round picks for Petry and his 3 years of term. Decent value for both teams IMO. Habs gets the futures we need and the Leafs get the RD they need cause they are built to win now.

 

[namttebih]

Ok, let's just ignore the fact that 1st round players pretty much never get traded in their draft year. Let's go even further and ignore the fact that Sandin came from SSM which is the club that Dubas cut his teeth with and was consulted about extensively. Let's go ahead and ignore the fact that he is the first player that he has ever drafted as GM. Finally, let's ignore the fact that he traded down to get him.

Now that we've ignored all of those facts, I fully agree that Sandin is a likely candidate to get moved.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Liljegren is not going to be like Dahlin. He is a good young prospect that needs to develop. Going to take a few years before you see how he ends up.

Liljegren doesn't have to be Dahlin to be a home run, he has #1D upside though. If you read back, one of the reasons I think Petry is a fit for the Leafs is that he buys a few years for Liljegren to develop

 

[Habs Halifax]

Liljegren doesn't have to be Dahlin to be a home run, he has #1D upside though. If you read back, one of the reasons I think Petry is a fit for the Leafs is that he buys a few years for Liljegren to develop

You compare Liljegren to Dahlin and I compare him to Beaulieu. Pretty big gap between those two and he can fall anywhere in the middle of that. But so far, his first AHL season was no better than what Beaulieu produced. Beaulieu has raw skills but he has not matured into a smart NHL defenseman. Lets see how Liljegren does. Thinking he will make an impact in the NHL sooner rater than later is not something I believe. It will take time

 

[Randy Randerson]

You compare Liljegren to Dahlin and I compare him to Beaulieu. Pretty big gap between those two and he can fall anywhere in the middle of that. But so far, his first AHL season was no better than what Beaulieu produced. Beaulieu has raw skills but he has not matured into a smart NHL defenseman. Lets see how Liljegren does. Thinking he will make an impact in the NHL sooner rater than later is not something I believe. It will take time

agree, you're way off base with the Beaulieu comparison, you're choosing Beaulieau strictly based on draft position and ignoring that Liljegren came into his draft year expecting to contend for the #1oa pick then played poorly while being sick, and a year removed from his draft it looks like the illness was a major cause of him playing poorly and a lot of the shine of his pre-draft is coming back

Liljegren's first AHL season was not comparable to Beaulieu's because he was a year younger than Beaulieu and playing a 3rd pairing role where it looks like Beaulieu at least top 4 on the Bulldogs. This coming year for Liljegren is the one that you can compare to Beaulieu's 1st AHL year

and I don't know why you seem to keep thinking that I'm saying Liljegren is going to be in the NHL soon when I started out by saying, and keep reinforcing the opposite

 

[Danny1237]

I think if you wanted to include Zaitsev, the price would go up for Toronto. They would have to include another asset in the form of a good pick or prospect to get Montreal to take him on.

I agree, Montreal could like the idea of adding a body to play, but Toronto needs to add to the deal in order to include him. Not sure what the cost would be, would depend largely on if Montreal felt they were buying low on Zaitsev and that he could turn into a good value himself, or if they felt he was a pure long term cap dump.

 

[Habs Halifax]

agree, you're way off base with the Beaulieu comparison, you're choosing Beaulieau strictly based on draft position and ignoring that Liljegren came into his draft year expecting to contend for the #1oa pick then played poorly while being sick, and a year removed from his draft it looks like the illness was a major cause of him playing poorly and a lot of the shine of his pre-draft is coming back

Liljegren's first AHL season was not comparable to Beaulieu's because he was a year younger than Beaulieu and playing a 3rd pairing role where it looks like Beaulieu at least top 4 on the Bulldogs. This coming year for Liljegren is the one that you can compare to Beaulieu's 1st AHL year

and I don't know why you seem to keep thinking that I'm saying Liljegren is going to be in the NHL soon when I started out by saying, and keep reinforcing the opposite

Beaulieu also slipped in his draft year. He was the 5th ranked North American skater and Bob Mckenzie had him ranked 11th heading into the draft. He was taken 17th. It's a very similar comparison but who knows how Liljegren develops. Beaulieu also showed very good promise after his draft year too. There are many cases like this... more than those who turn into impact top of the line-up type players.

The point is this. I'm not saying Liljegren turns into Beaulieu for sure. I'm saying that you can't count on him being a #1D or for sure top 4D just yet. Liljegren is no Dahlin and he will take a few years to mature into a NHL defenseman.

 

[Danny1237]

You compare Liljegren to Dahlin and I compare him to Beaulieu. Pretty big gap between those two and he can fall anywhere in the middle of that. But so far, his first AHL season was no better than what Beaulieu produced. Beaulieu has raw skills but he has not matured into a smart NHL defenseman. Lets see how Liljegren does. Thinking he will make an impact in the NHL sooner rater than later is not something I believe. It will take time

Liljgren isn't Dahlin, but Beaulieu's first AHL season isn't a fare comparison either. Beaulieu went back to Junior after being drafted and played in the AHL as a 19-20 year old in his first season.

Liljgren played his first AHL season as an 18 year old. The seasons were comparable, buy Liljgren was young and coming off a year where he didn't play a whole lot. So right now, I would put Liljgren ahead of where Beaulieu was at the same time.

Liljgren is still likely at least a year away, as he will need a year being "the guy" in the AHL before he can jump in and play NHL minutes, but his biggest strengths have been that he is a smart player and he has improved drastically in the weakest areas of his game. The biggest downside is that scouts have realized that his skating is not as elite as was advertised.

In the end, he has become a very good prospect. His ceiling has likely come down a little from what Leafs fans thougth they were getting, as he doesn't seem to have the Klingberg gear people had thought they saw in him, but he no longer fits the bill as a boom or bust prospect either as his defensive game and hockey IQ are far ahead of where they thought he would be. Chances are he is an NHL defensemen, but not likely this year. He is still just 19, so I would say that it makes far more sense to let him go back to the AHL as the #1 guy for a full year before getting him in the NHL. Obviously he could still miss, but he is a bit of a different prospect than people though the Leafs were getting at that draft.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Beaulieu also slipped in his draft year. He was the 5th ranked North American skater and Bob Mckenzie had him ranked 11th heading into the draft. He was taken 17th. It's a very similar comparison but who knows how Liljegren develops. Beaulieu also showed very good promise after his draft year too.

The point is this. I'm not saying Liljegren turns into Beaulieu for sure. I'm saying that you can't count on him being a #1D or for sure top 4D just yet. Liljegren is no Dahlin and he will take a few years to mature into a NHL defenseman.

slipping from around the 8-12 range to 17 isn't the same as slipping from near sure thing for top 2, there is a large gap in pedigree. And I think Beaulieu's junior and AHL careers showed good promise, but they're just not good comparable as prospects

of course he, like any prospect including Dahlin, can't be counted on to turn into anything and will take time to develop. But again, I haven't said either of those, so I don't know why you keep bringing them up

Liljegren did draw comparisons to Dahlin from lots of media, and I'm sure in the poll section on HF. That's probably largely due to them both being Swedish and highly ranked in consecutive drafts, but anyone drawing that comparison should be valued

 

[The3rd]

No Liljegren, no Sandin, only Dermott. Sandin is a fine prospect but not getting Dermott is a deal breaker for me. I'd personally look elsewhere for another LHD prospect that really i like before accepting Sandin and a 1st.

Wouldn't happen, Dermott is already a better player than Petry. In fact this deal would only consist of higher picks and a cap dump IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Liljgren isn't Dahlin, but Beaulieu's first AHL season isn't a fare comparison either. Beaulieu went back to Junior after being drafted and played in the AHL as a 19-20 year old in his first season.

Liljgren played his first AHL season as an 18 year old. The seasons were comparable, buy Liljgren was young and coming off a year where he didn't play a whole lot. So right now, I would put Liljgren ahead of where Beaulieu was at the same time.

Liljgren is still likely at least a year away, as he will need a year being "the guy" in the AHL before he can jump in and play NHL minutes, but his biggest strengths have been that he is a smart player and he has improved drastically in the weakest areas of his game. The biggest downside is that scouts have realized that his skating is not as elite as was advertised.

In the end, he has become a very good prospect. His ceiling has likely come down a little from what Leafs fans thougth they were getting, as he doesn't seem to have the Klingberg gear people had thought they saw in him, but he no longer fits the bill as a boom or bust prospect either as his defensive game and hockey IQ are far ahead of where they thought he would be. Chances are he is an NHL defensemen, but not likely this year. He is still just 19, so I would say that it makes far more sense to let him go back to the AHL as the #1 guy for a full year before getting him in the NHL. Obviously he could still miss, but he is a bit of a different prospect than people though the Leafs were getting at that draft.

Doesn't change anything. Liljegren is a promising young prospect who is not proven. It takes years for these types of prospects to mature and make an impact in the NHL. Especially on Defense. The Beaulieu comparison is a very good comparison. It is true Beaulieu played in the Q in his draft year +1 but he also had a very good year and playoffs that year too.

What did each player do in the U20 World Juniors in their draft year +1? Very similar. Don't be sensitive. I'm not saying Liljegren turns into Beaulieu. I'm saying you won't know his true potential for a few years yet and it's anybodies guess. Penciling him down as a #1D or top 4D for sure and there is zero chance he disappoints is not reasonable.

What do you expect from Liljegren in his 2nd AHL season? How much of a jump in development do you predict? Or do you think he plays in the NHL as a regular next year towards the end of the year already?

 

[Baksfamous112]

Wouldn't happen, Dermott is already a better player than Petry. In fact this deal would only consist of higher picks and a cap dump IMO.

Now you’re just getting silly. Get outta here

 

[Danny1237]

Doesn't change anything. Liljegren is a promising young prospect who is not proven. It takes years for these types of prospects to mature and make an impact in the NHL. Especially on Defense. The Beaulieu comparison is a very good comparison. It is true Beaulieu played in the Q in his draft year +1 but he also had a very good year and playoffs that year too.

What did each player do in the U20 World Juniors in their draft year +1? Very similar. Don't be sensitive. I'm not saying Liljegren turns into Beaulieu. I'm saying you won't know his true potential for a few years yet and it's anybodies guess. Penciling him down as a #1D or top 4D for sure and there is zero chance he disappoints is not reasonable.

What do you expect from Liljegren in his 2nd AHL season? How much of a jump in development do you predict? Or do you think he plays in the NHL as a regular next year towards the end of the year already?

It's not being sensitive, just pointing out Beaulieu isn't a great comparable to Liljegren. They have different skill sets, and different draw backs, and played in different leagues against different competition at similar points in their development. Any player can hit that wall when going to the next level, and it's especially true for defense, as how they fare against tougher and tougher competition, is what determines how useful they will be later.

I don't think Liljegren gets any real time in the NHL this year, maybe late if there are injuries, but honestly I think he develops by playing a bigger role in the AHL instead. I see him getting heavier 5 on 5 usage in the AHL this year, and becomes their #1 RHD, especially if Holl gets the 6-7 job with the Leafs.

I think the thing that is interesting with Liljegren is that he is a very different prospect than what was said about him at the time of the draft. He was projected as a very boom or bust prospect with elite skating but very questionable decision making. However, when he got to North America, his calling card has been his Hockey IQ, but his skating is nowhere near elite. He plays smart and has improved drastically in what his short falls were supposed to be (or maybe they were never as bad as projected?), he is still an offensive weapon, but he likely is never going to get mistaken for a Karlsson, Kilngberg type.

I do think it will take 18-24 months to know for sure if Liljegren is an NHL player, but I do think some of the what holds back defense evaluations is simply that coaches simply don't get the opportunities. Good defensemen need a coach to trust them to show that they are good. They can be great in limited roles, but without playing better forwards or getting PP or PK time, they can only show so much of what they can do. When a good forward starts getting limited minutes, it's likely against weaker lines, and they can really start to run over those lines. Then whether or not their coach believes they are a big scoring threat doesn't matter as other coaches start matching up a little tougher against that line.

There are lots of good defensemen in the league that simply don't get a good opportunity to show what they are capable of, so I think the development issue is as much an evaluation issue as it is that the position takes longer to learn. Some teams have shown their staffs are far better at recognizing defensive talent early, and it pays dividends if you can realize what you have by the end of the ELC so you can get them locked up before they really take off.

 

[Lockin17]

We got the best goalie in the world. One of the top RHD and a solid #3 who happens to also be a RHD.

We’ve got a very solid 3C in Danault and a tons of young, talented forwards along with Mete & Juulsen on D. What we really need to be competitive is a #1 and #2 C along with a young top LHD. We already drafted two very talented C’s who could/should fill the 1c/2c role in two years. If we do have another bad year, we will most likely find our top LHD in the next draft and that is without adding Pacioretty’s return/signing.

We don’t need to trade everyone. We don’t need to acquire top 6 C’s anymore. We just need to be patient and develop our own (which we already drafted). 2018-2019 might be a long year for Habs fan but starting 2019-2020 I think we will be very conpetitive again

Agreed with you on this one.

 

[sansabri]

Wouldn't happen, Dermott is already a better player than Petry. In fact this deal would only consist of higher picks and a cap dump IMO.

HA.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wouldn't happen, Dermott is already a better player than Petry. In fact this deal would only consist of higher picks and a cap dump IMO.

Dermout is not already a better player than Petry. Come on man

 

[Habs Halifax]

We got the best goalie in the world. One of the top RHD and a solid #3 who happens to also be a RHD.

We’ve got a very solid 3C in Danault and a tons of young, talented forwards along with Mete & Juulsen on D. What we really need to be competitive is a #1 and #2 C along with a young top LHD. We already drafted two very talented C’s who could/should fill the 1c/2c role in two years. If we do have another bad year, we will most likely find our top LHD in the next draft and that is without adding Pacioretty’s return/signing.

We don’t need to trade everyone. We don’t need to acquire top 6 C’s anymore. We just need to be patient and develop our own (which we already drafted). 2018-2019 might be a long year for Habs fan but starting 2019-2020 I think we will be very conpetitive again

I would trade Petry but I agree with your point. Patch, Byron, Petry would return solid futures and help accelerate our rebuild. The Habs will be a much different team starting the 2020/2021 season when the 2017+ draft picks start filtering through the system. There is tons of grade B prospects as well where there will be surprises and disappointments. Quantity is key

 

[Liferleafer]

No Liljegren, no Sandin, only Dermott. Sandin is a fine prospect but not getting Dermott is a deal breaker for me. I'd personally look elsewhere for another LHD prospect that really i like before accepting Sandin and a 1st.

OK, this thread is a trainwreck anyways...so i'll ask, why would TO entertain trading Dermott for Petry?

 

[Baksfamous112]

I would trade Petry but I agree with your point. Patch, Byron, Petry would return solid futures and help accelerate our rebuild. The Habs will be a much different team starting the 2020/2021 season when the 2017+ draft picks start filtering through the system. There is tons of grade B prospects as well where there will be surprises and disappointments. Quantity is key

I agree with Patches and Byron at the TDL, but why Petry? He’s likely going to get a 1st+ at the TDL when his contract expire, so why not keep him for now? He’s a great #3 at a fair price and locked for three more years.

At worst, he’s a stop gap until Juulsen is ready and then we trade him for a need (whether it’s draft picks or a current hole in the lineup)

 

[Jared Dunn]

A lot of people are sleeping on Andreas Johnsson. This is a guy that was the MVP on the Calder Cup winning Marlins and played very well when up with the Leafs as well. If that’s the kind of return being offered for Jeff Petry, you take that and run.

Just how bad do you think Jeff Petry is??? I really do like Johnsson, but certainly not going to fork up Petry for him straight up....

Habs are FINE on the wings. 1st/2nd round picks and D prospects for Petry, nothing else (obviously not getting a potential 1C for him the only hope of that is the tank)