Going against a 3rd stringer is one thing if he plays like a 3rd stringer. But he played extremely well and him being the 3rd string up to that point is sort of irrelevant. We can't sit here and say the team choked because they should have beaten a 3rd string goalie when said goalie played out of his mind and stonewalled a very good offense. That's just sports. That's the way she goes sometimes.
Confirmed with Link: Jeff Jackson (McDavid's now former agent) named Oilers CEO of Hockey Ops
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duul
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It's so disrespectful seeing the way people talk about other teams bottom 6 in comparison to ours. Talking about guys like Derek Ryan and Ryan McLeod who would not see ice time in the playoffs on Vegas. Kessel and Blueger both got healthy scratched on that club, yet would be staples on our middle 6 without a doubt. This is a team that opted not to bring Janmark back and who is being paraded around here as a lone bright spot in our bottom 6, and only if he wasn't injured would he have made a difference!
Does anyone in our bottom 6 play in Vegas'? Honest question. The only person I can see coming out of that lineup last year would be Kolesar but he fits the Vegas style far better than any of our perimeter style bottom 6ers. This is not intended to be a blatant attack on our players even though it seems as such.
Vegas demanded aggression, forechecking, full effort and hard style of play crashing the net with near reckless abandon both into the zone and out of the corners.
Foegele doesn't play this way.
Ryan doesn't play this way.
McLeod doesn't play this way.
Do any of those guys replace Kolesar? Maybe Foegele if they can convince him to stop button hooking and playing like a p***y? Kolesar was constantly trying to get our defencemen off their games. I wasn't a fan of his as a player but at least he knew his role as a 4th line guy and was stirring shit up as often as possible. And hey, even knowing that, he STILL brought more offence than any of our guys. Funny how that works.
That's our entire third line from the playoffs who I very much doubt would get minutes in Vegas for their playoff run last year. Would love to have a discussion about it if anyone's interested. Then you look at the only two guys remaining from that bottom 6 group who were Kostin and Bjugstad as we went 11-7. We've talked enough about those two though. Funny, I think both of them would be the two best guys to fit into their team, although I don't know if either of them actually gets time there in such a serious playoff series.
Talk about our bottom 6 all getting ten goals this year all you want. Guys like Howden got six and made a mockery of our lineup in the playoffs when big, physical, fast hockey has and always will reign supreme.
Does anyone in our bottom 6 play in Vegas'? Honest question. The only person I can see coming out of that lineup last year would be Kolesar but he fits the Vegas style far better than any of our perimeter style bottom 6ers. This is not intended to be a blatant attack on our players even though it seems as such.
Vegas demanded aggression, forechecking, full effort and hard style of play crashing the net with near reckless abandon both into the zone and out of the corners.
Foegele doesn't play this way.
Ryan doesn't play this way.
McLeod doesn't play this way.
Do any of those guys replace Kolesar? Maybe Foegele if they can convince him to stop button hooking and playing like a p***y? Kolesar was constantly trying to get our defencemen off their games. I wasn't a fan of his as a player but at least he knew his role as a 4th line guy and was stirring shit up as often as possible. And hey, even knowing that, he STILL brought more offence than any of our guys. Funny how that works.
That's our entire third line from the playoffs who I very much doubt would get minutes in Vegas for their playoff run last year. Would love to have a discussion about it if anyone's interested. Then you look at the only two guys remaining from that bottom 6 group who were Kostin and Bjugstad as we went 11-7. We've talked enough about those two though. Funny, I think both of them would be the two best guys to fit into their team, although I don't know if either of them actually gets time there in such a serious playoff series.
Talk about our bottom 6 all getting ten goals this year all you want. Guys like Howden got six and made a mockery of our lineup in the playoffs when big, physical, fast hockey has and always will reign supreme.
I understand the sentiment but I don't think it's really fair. Ovi is always a really good comparable in my opinion. He is legit one of the greatest of all time. He had disgustingly deep, President's Trophy winning rosters around him as well as a vezina winning goaltender. It still took him 13 years to finally hoist the cup, and it was 2 years after Holtby won that Vezina. I don't consider all those playoff exits as choke jobs, or Ovi and the team underachieving. I look at that as the way sports go. You need a lot of luck and things to break your way to go the distance, and regardless of the team sometimes it just doesn't happen. That's sports.In the history of hockey teams with the two best players on Earth should win a couple cups. They should be able to prevail. Its harder to score in the playoffs and star players of the time are often the difference whether that be Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier or Howe and Delvecchio or Orr and Esposito or Lemieux Jagr. or Crosby Malkin.
The team that has the two greatest players of the time should manage to prevail at least 1-2 seasons. If you don't bag a cup somewhere along the line with the duo of McDrai its a failure of sorts.
historically though the Vegas loss will be especially ironic as it implicates many of the other GM's in the league that left such quality players for the Knights to grab, unprotected.
The other sting is losing to Colorado. You know that one stings for McDrai because its their contemporary getting his name on history. For all the points or whatever what matters to these guys is getting a cup. McDrai themselves would consider it failure not to get their name on it. Thats how history goes. Everybody wants to be on the cup, nobody emulates Marcel Dionnes fate.
nobody wants to be on this list, only one that got off it was OV.
The NHL's 50 Best Players and Coaches Without a Stanley Cup
The Stanley Cup is the ultimate trophy in professional sports. From the time that hockey players are small kids playing on ponds or in pee wee leagues, they dream of lifting this ...bleacherreport.com
Up until he won the Cup, he had much of the same stuff following him around. Couldn't lead the team to the promised land, years of wasted teams and accolades. Then he won the Cup and suddenly it all disappeared. If McDavid and Drai were in the twilight of their careers I think this discussion is a little more legit, but given that they're only what, 26, and have years left ahead of them, I can't get on board with the notion that somehow they're choking or underachieving. I will never agree that not winning the cup is underachieving. That goes for any team in any sport. They bowed up to the eventual cup winners two years in a row, that says something to me. What it doesn't say is that they choked away a golden opportunity and somehow would have waltzed through the finals if they had gotten through Vegas. That idea holds no water at all for me, but it's something a ton of people on these forums like to pretend is how it would have gone, and I don't just mean this year with the Oilers in specific either.
Should they win a cup? Sure. But having some arbitrary timeline where they should already have one seems really unfair to me given they have lots of time to still make it happen. If they were to win it next season, are they suddenly no longer underacheivers who choked away previous years? If they win it 3 years from now, are they suddenly no longer underacheivers? I suspect all the talk about not being able to lead the team to the cup disappears immediately after they win one, and it's such crap in my opinion. There is no arbitrary time frame in which players have to win a cup in order to be as good as they appear, nor do players go from incapable leaders one year to all time great leaders the next year simply because the team wins it all.
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KeithIsActuallyBad
SPEEN!
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
I'm just stating it as its not your or my opinion, its about how history tends to look at such things. Marcel Dionne is arguably one of the most talented players to have played the game but despite his lofty pts he gets forgotten in conversations just like Dino Ciccarellis for never having won the cup. Not saying its fair, its just the way it is.
Put it this way. Dionne put up way more pts than Guy Lafleur but who is more famous? Who is more revered. Top players want their names on the cup and its the first thing they will tell you that its so important to their legacy, more important than any other trophy. I mean this is an obvious known.
McDrai have 2 seasons left on the same team, its not guaranteed that there will be more than that. In anycase the calendar is turning and players get in twilight before you know it. The competitive window in Hockey is small.
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KeithIsActuallyBad
SPEEN!
Every year the Oilers don’t win the Cup their window closes a bit more. Simple as that. We are 8 years into the McDrai era and have won 4 playoff series.
Ritchie Valens
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Always been impartial to the good old fashioned term "donnybrook" myself lol.Well, you youngins...It’s almost as if slang terminology was recently invented by Gen Z. Not.
Here’s a few more for ya…skedaddle, 23 skidoo, hornswoggle, knuckle sandwich, wisenheimer, hoosegow.
Senor Catface
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Kolesar had 0g 0a 0p and 2 shots in the series against Edmonton. Brought more offense? His most notable moment was getting dummied by Kane. Oh by the way, the Oilers wildly outhit Vegas in the series. Hell, take away Bjugstad and Kostin and pretend the Oilers only ran 9 forwards and we still heavily outhit them.
You ever get tired of being hilariously wrong?
duul
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Yes, brought more offence. Kolesar, being the worst forward BY FAR in the Vegas lineup had none of Ryan, Foegele, or McLeod outscore him in the playoffs. How does that make you feel? Their worst player put up more points than anyone on our third line. Should we start comparing their third line to ours? Or continue talking about their 12th forward against our 7th, 8th, and 9th. Lmao. It's not even close.
You mean a player who played 22 games scored more than a player who played 12? WOW what a shocker. The only Oiler forward who didn't produce at a better rate than him was Janmark who only played 5 games due to injuries.
This take is almost as insightful as you saying there were 700 fights in the NHL last season.
duul
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Now that we've established our 7th, 8th, 9th forwards were scoring at a very similar rate to Keegan Kolesar, as in, they put up less points albeit in a few less games, why don't we compare our third line to Vegas? Do you dare?
lmao "albeit in a few less games"
You're such a dishonest poster. Can't you just go back to making up fake rumours like you used to instead of whatever the hell this rebrand is.
duul
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Sheikyerbouti
ShakeyerMcBooty
Bouchard apparently at 2 years 3.9 which is pretty good. He's a gamer and wants to win here.
It's been a pretty good week in oilers land
It's been a pretty good week in oilers land
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Broberg Speed
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You forgot the series already. Kolesar had an impact every single shift. And not just in the series against the Oilers. I wish we had a Kolesar.
Carrier was even better. I wish we had a Carrier... Roy is better than McLeod.
For the record we had posters saying Kulak and Desharnais were better than Whitecloud and Hague. It's true.
Impact every shift, lmao.
Your posting quality is similar to Duul's.
No wonder you guys like eachother.
MessierII
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- Aug 10, 2011
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I forgot how dumb things get here in the summer until I read the last couple pages.
Do you dare to try bringing an honest argument to the table?
Nurse outscored Stone in the regular season, albeit Stone played in a few less games.
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Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
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IMO our pro and amateur scouting need to be bolstered and maybe he knows a number of players NTC lists and whether or not we are on that list?
Throttlehead
Registered User
Its not just the summer, its just as bad after every loss.
duul
Registered User
- Jun 21, 2010
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Fiiine, I'll do it this beautiful morning.
Our third line (playoff ppg):
0.25
0.41
0.27
VS
0.77
0.62
0.63
Our third line scored three goals in the playoffs. Theirs scored 18. You want to come in here and start talking about how Ryan McLeod is a 3C? How Foegele is a third liner too? In comparison to what?
I will do a few more.
Florida's third line:
0.31
0.47
0.61
Dallas' third line:
0.64
0.31
0.47
Carolina's third line:
0.26
0.53
0.46
Combined, we have:
0.93
2.02
1.39
1.42
1.25
As we can see, Vegas runs an incredibly deep and balanced group, every line capable of scoring and causing real damage to the opposition. In Edmonton we run a two line team so we're only a threat to score for around half the game, a bit more obviously due to ice time, but yea. Vegas can score every single shift, they have threats on every line. I wonder what we could have done with an extra point per game from our third line alone. This all comes down to poor scouting and understanding what kind of game you have to play for success in the playoffs. Our scouting department has failed to realize that playing perimeter hockey does not work in the playoffs.
frag2
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Was this from the Leavins article or someone else?
I saw some random hockey podcaster last Friday mention the same thing in a Tweet but because it was from some rando, figured not worthwhile to post
McJadeddog
Registered User
That is a very fair deal, if that is indeed what he signs for. Makes me VERY concerned what he'll demand at the end of those 2 years though. But we need a cup in the last 2 years of McDrai, so I guess that is a problem for another day. 3.9 x 2 is about as good as we could hope for right now truthfully.
Mr Positive
Cap Crunch Incoming
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