Confirmed with Link: Jay Woodcroft and Dave Manson fired - no more Woody during NNN - Kris Knoblauch hired, Coffey as assistant

[guymez]

Which is pretty standard in business, and especially in sports. The new boss will gladly accept success that his support staff achieves, but will take the opportunity to put his people in place given what he sees as failure. Woody did some good things here, but unfortunately for him he was too stubborn at times, failed to react quickly enough (if at all) when it was warranted, and seemed to have a hard time making his stars accountable. And of course the numerous things we all know that were out of his control that have lead us to this moment.

I agree except to say that if the Woodcroft situation sets a precedent...meaning that a 12 game stint is now the barometer for how poorly a coach is doing...then the team is in serious trouble.

 

[Senor Catface]

After having listened to both Connor and Knoblauch speak, it becomes quite clear that while they respect each other, they haven't remained close at all, with just the odd text here and there since Connor played for him in Erie. To me this is 100% a Jackson hiring, bringing in a coach he is familiar with, as he developed many of Jackson's clients, and has nothing to do with Connor playing GM, as has been mentioned in the thread.

Sounds like Connor McDavid is the Deep State.

 

[MessierII]

I feel like this happened with the Rangers. When they had Hank, they couldn't score to save their lives, and relied on Hank to stand on his head to will them to a Cup final appearance. Then once Hank is gone, they get some decent scoring and a stronger commitment to systematic defensive schemes.

I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see a scenario where McDrai are done here and then we finally get some solid defense/goaltending, and we'll all be here griping about how we have no forwards that can finish.

Rangers still rely on goaltending too much. That hasn’t changed at all. Rangers are the ying to our yang. They are great at developing young D and goalies and but can’t develop a high end forward to save their lives.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Here's my assessment: Knoblauch, Gully and Stuart will run the bench. Coffey will be there for pointers, a fresh voice and a good communicator. Kind of sounds like that from Gregor.

I would like to add one bit: Coffey will be there for Timmies Runs as well

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I agree except to say that if the Woodcroft situation sets a precedent...meaning that a 12 game stint is now the barometer for how poorly a coach is doing...then the team is in serious trouble.

https://www.si.com/nhl/2015/10/21/fastest-nhl-coach-firings-1995#gid=ci0255844cc0152511&pid=4-denis-savard-blackhawks-2008

Luckily, there are those who were canned a lot sooner into a season. 3 games for Peter Laviolette in '95. But one commonality...a poorly run training camp. What's been one of the the biggest complaints about Woodcroft? Poor training camps.

 

[guymez]

It doesn't fit his MO, that's for certain. I just remembered either Jeff or Ken (maybe both at different points) said they watched Knoblauch from afar, so to speak.

The beginning was strange also. My interpretation: "Well, we couldn't find a dance partner to trade with 12 games in, so we ran out of ideas and said......f*** it. We're bringing in Jeff's guy and our inside guy."

For sure.
If we were to go back in time over the last 5 years and isolate the stretches during the season where this team fell flat we would find that there were more than a few examples of a 12 game stretch where this happened...especially early in the season.
In this circumstance (especially when the team has the highest expected goals in the NHL) a GM cant possibly look at things and decides that he needs to fire the coach. Especially when he knows that the team is failing at basic D zone coverages. Thats a hard work issue...thats a commitment to the system issue.


For me its just one nonsensical part of many in this entire mess.
The only way for me that this makes sense if Jackson pulled the trigger because ownership (along with Jackson) felt that there was a need to do this BEFORE he has to deal with Connor and Leons contracts.
Its likely that this (like the Connor Brown signing and maybe even the Jackson hiring itself) is yet another part of the 'make Connor happy so he doesnt leave' agenda.

https://www.si.com/nhl/2015/10/21/fastest-nhl-coach-firings-1995#gid=ci0255844cc0152511&pid=4-denis-savard-blackhawks-2008

Luckily, there are those who were canned a lot sooner into a season. 3 games for Peter Laviolette in '95. But one commonality...a poorly run training camp. What's been one of the the biggest complaints about Woodcroft? Poor training camps.

Thats very interesting.
Thanks for posting it.

It certainly appears like ownership had a say in quite a few of those very early firings. I think thats likely what happened here too.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Just watched KK’s pregame interview.

Nice not watching Woody’s bullshit sound bites and fake platitudes anymore. Just straightforward and honest answers and a nice human moment.

I love when Woody got hired and was winning he was honest and refeshing.
Now that they are losing he's smug and dishonest.

Same old descriptions just rinsed and repeated

 

[guymez]

Holland apparently talked to them about the general feeling around the team, not about a coaching change, and Jackson said they didn't consult the players about it.

I personally have no clue what actually happened, but that's the story as best as people have put together.

Thats fair and maybe the way Jackson explained it after the fact is exactly what happened.
Its a very messy situation though and its been very poorly managed as well.

 

[FlameChampion]

After having listened to both Connor and Knoblauch speak, it becomes quite clear that while they respect each other, they haven't remained close at all, with just the odd text here and there since Connor played for him in Erie. To me this is 100% a Jackson hiring, bringing in a coach he is familiar with, as he developed many of Jackson's clients, and has nothing to do with Connor playing GM, as has been mentioned in the thread.

Its a weird play by JJ if you’re right.

The whole situation is just weird. Because it either appears that they are catering to McDavid or he’s pulling some strings. The press conference yesterday was so disjointed. JJ and KH contradicted themselves. No one really saying whos in charge.

Then McDavid comes out today and says he was surprised (which is hard to believe). I took it as he was deflecting because he doesn’t want to look like hes the responsible for people losing their job (it puts him in a tough spot).

The whole thing just feels off. Someone isn’t really telling the truth.

But if McDavid is less involved than some people think he is, its probably a good way to lose him. And Draisaitl already hates the media, so the circus act isn’t great for him either.

 

[Hairy Apparatus]

if we implement the 1-2-2, I think this team will be in a way better spot. The stuff woody was doing was pretty archaic on the forecheck, and did not let our team be dynamic at all.

Also, the knob was talking about simplyfying the system, this is perfect!! I think if we can make the defense super simple and only make em make short passes, like the d zone they hopefully play according to this video, we will be in a super good spot!

Most importantly, if the man can make drai and mcdavid just gah dayum backcheck and forecheck hard, we will be back on top.


I hope he tries the kids out more ... Does not seem to be the way he coaches according to others though

 

[FlameChampion]

Here's my assessment: Knoblauch, Gully and Stuart will run the bench. Coffey will be there for pointers, a fresh voice and a good communicator. Kind of sounds like that from Gregor.

I would like to add one bit: Coffey will be there for Timmies Runs as well

I think Coffey is probably there as well to give more information to JJ/Katz for future decisions. It’s kinda a risky move in that regard. Both the players and coaches could be on eggshells with him around. Because it sounds like he has a lot of clout in the organization.

 

[CornKicker]

if we implement the 1-2-2, I think this team will be in a way better spot. The stuff woody was doing was pretty archaic on the forecheck, and did not let our team be dynamic at all.

Also, the knob was talking about simplyfying the system, this is perfect!! I think if we can make the defense super simple and only make em make short passes, like the d zone they hopefully play according to this video, we will be in a super good spot!

Most importantly, if the man can make drai and mcdavid just gah dayum backcheck and forecheck hard, we will be back on top.


I hope he tries the kids out more ... Does not seem to be the way he coaches according to others though

the game plan should be and should have been puck possesion 70% of the game, you have elite offensive players and a deadly PP. give them the best chance to create those opportunities and draw penalties. then you have puck dogs like kane, hyman, foegle, holloway let them create turnovers and split the skill up and score goals. win 6-4 eff defence lol

the first time one of your star players slacks a back check sit them. it will show everyone else you are holding them accountable

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I agree except to say that if the Woodcroft situation sets a precedent...meaning that a 12 game stint is now the barometer for how poorly a coach is doing...then the team is in serious trouble.

The team is in serious trouble. Tied their worst start in club history. 18 points behind the division leader they went toe to toe with in the playoffs. Speedbagged x3 to the Canucks. Coach and players all talked about the need to cut down mistakes and goals against yet have the league's second worst goal differential. Then rolled out a loss to the league's worst team with a -49 goal differential early November.

It was spelled out pretty clearly. Felt waiting another week or so faced risk this season was over. This is hard reality when a perceived Cup contender absolutely craters under its own weight of expectation.

 

[Spawn]

Should JJ not hire his guy when the opportunity presents?

The CEO of hockey operations shouldn’t be picking the coach at all.

This organization has no sense of a proper management structure. Your GM should be the guy picking the coach. And if you don’t trust Holland to be the GM than you should be replacing him with the person who should be the GM and that guy should be the person who gets to pick his coaching staff.

Just like Paul Coffey, who is a special advisor to Katz, shouldn’t be on the bench as an assistant coach.

 

[guymez]

Hopefully this is the first of many chats with Draisaitl....

 

[M Ace]

Nothing with Coffey making some moves on the skates?

 

[foshizzle]

What a top notch, well-run organization.


If Katz extends Holland's contract he should be forced to sell the team.

Dude, you criticize if he did know before hand and criticize that he didn’t know. Lol

 

[Hacketts]

This decision doesn't feel right, seems quite rooted in fear, especially after listening to McDavid today... KK might be swimming over his head. I like the Coffey move tho, I think that might work out well. He'll definitely add accountability.

 

[nafrelio]

The CEO of hockey operations shouldn’t be picking the coach at all.

This organization has no sense of a proper management structure. Your GM should be the guy picking the coach. And if you don’t trust Holland to be the GM than you should be replacing him with the person who should be the GM and that guy should be the person who gets to pick his coaching staff.

Just like Paul Coffey, who is a special advisor to Katz, shouldn’t be on the bench as an assistant coach.

I completely agree Spawn.

What is happening might seriously backfire and lose the players. If Coffey is the snitch to the owner, what players or coaches will trust him?

This also will make the future GM candidates seriously rethink if they want to take on that job if their job gets taken away by the CEO.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[guymez]

The team is in serious trouble. Tied their worst start in club history. 18 points behind the division leader they went toe to toe with in the playoffs. Speedbagged x3 to the Canucks. Coach and players all talked about the need to cut down mistakes and goals against yet have the league's second worst goal differential. Then rolled out a loss to the league's worst team with a -49 goal differential early November.

It was spelled out pretty clearly. Felt waiting another week or so faced risk this season was over. This is hard reality when a perceived Cup contender absolutely craters under its own weight of expectation.

I agree with this.
The disconnect between what the players say and what happens on the ice is staggering.

We are also on the same page with Woodcroft. He is a good coach and it wouldnt surprise me at all if he got another NHL head coaching job this season.
Watching this teams play in their own zone this season has been like nothing I can recall in the last 10 years at least. It was deplorable and I think that blame falls almost entirely on the players.
Now its possible that Woodcroft was bogging down the players with too much focus on systems play and not enough on allowing them to just play. So maybe thats what caused some of the tentative decision making by the players. Its like they were overthinking and not just playing.
I am open to that possibility and that maybe that helped play a role in letting Woodcroft go.
Its possible.

I maintain though that this was an opportunity for Jackson to get his man in the coaching chair.
This wasnt a Holland decision.
Whether or not the change in coach was justified will be revealed in the coming months.
I like Knoblauch a lot so please dont interpret my posts as having anything at all to do with Knoblauch.
To be honest (based on everything I have heard) I think that he has the potential to be a much better fit for this team than Woodcroft.

I absolutely do not like how this was handled and I especially dont like the optics of forcing Coffey on Knoblauch (at this point its obvious why this happened) and having Coffey on the bench.
I also dont like the nonsense game the Org is playing by parading around the paper tiger GM like he is legitimate.
Too many really bad looks on this team right now.

 

[oobga]

"read all about it"

lol, no Spec, never clicking your links bud.

I don't think it's McDavid at all. This is the org trying to do things that they think might make McDavid happy. And it could backfire, just like how bad our management has been at building a team. You bring in McDavid's old agent, his mentor from Jr, now his coach from Jr.

The org is trying to juggle creating a winning team, and trying to find any way to create an environment McDavid will want to stay in, win or lose. The actual building a winner thing is extremely hard, especially with so many years of an owner that has trusted idiots to build it. Lame attempts to create the ideal McDavid environment is easier to try, but could bomb as well and make things awkward via fan/media impressions and if it doesn't actually create good on-ice results. if things so really sour now, imagine having to fire Knoblauch right before we start trying to convince McDavid to extend.

 

[RegDunlop]

I have a question

Isn't being an agent a bit of a 'conflict of interest' if employed by a team? Especially in JJs position?

Didn't Burke have to give up his clients when he went to Van?

 

[McDNicks17]

Give the first 10+ minutes of Rishaug’s pod a listen. His take on Paul Coffey sitting in the coach’s group is bang on.

It’s clear that the management group aren’t totally sold that Kris K is capable of taking this role and making it his. They have put a weird dynamic in play for the players and other coaches with having the special advisor to the OWNER hanging around the room. First time Coffey and KK disagree on something significant, Knoblauch will lose even if he temporarily “wins”.

I think all these conspiracy theories for why Coffey was hired are really silly.

I'd say the simplest explanation is likely the right one and that's where the hell do you find an assistant coach mid-way through the season?

Coffey straight up said they looked for awhile and he was the last resort haha.

 

[FlameChampion]

If this is true then Katz was an idiot to bring in JJ. JJ was an idiot to accept (he should have a good idea on how McDavid ticks). And JJ is a further idiot by hiring McDavids junior coach.

Just bizarre.