Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5
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Asymmetric Solution
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- Nov 29, 2018
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Barely beating Detroit after losing last time?
Progress. Botterill gets free rein to screw this team for the next 5-10 years over the course of the next 3 months.
Progress. Botterill gets free rein to screw this team for the next 5-10 years over the course of the next 3 months.
This made me laugh, ruefully. So many of those comments either from Botterill or others about him. 
Down Goes Brown: A guide to your GM's favorite trading...
Down Goes Brown: A guide to your GM's favorite trading...
I don't spend enough time hating the Montour trade.... but I'm going to start.
Sabre Dance
Make Hockey Fun Again
- Jul 27, 2006
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A lot of the problem is a product of coaching. At least that's my belief. It has to be because not every move has been bad on paper, but nearly all end up looking bad. The Sabres haven't hired a proven respected coach since firing Lindy Ruff.
We needed to hire someone we know can coach teams to the playoffs. I've always had a simple criteria, find me a coach that has coached multiple teams to the playoffs. Every year there are coaches like that available and we pass on them. Every year there's a coach like that takes a bad team and turns them around.
But let's keep doing what we're doing here because it's working so well.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
The coaches that have been hired have had more experience and success at the NHL level than the GMs they have hired have.
Murray and Botts were both rookies.
At least on the head coaching front they have had NHL experience including two different coaches with a Jack Adams Trophy and one coach with a Stanley Cup.
Gabrielor
Registered User
Sabre Dance
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Nolan would've fit the simple criteria I'm looking for but his 2nd stint in Buffalo was when they were basically trying to lose.
Bylsma won with Pittsburgh but most feel he isn't a good head coach. He hasn't shown anything to dispute that since leaving a loaded Penguins roster.
Consider what looks good on paper means.
Is that code for, trading for what you are being told is a top 4 young defender is smart? Superficially, sure.
But if that belief requires on it's face that you haven't seen the player more than once or twice, most fans, and that you ignore some questionable metrics as a byproduct of "bad" coaching in Anaheim, was it really a good move on paper? Or was it a risky move, using futures on a maybe player?
Wait are we talking about Botts? The patience, draft and develop guy.huh.
Bylsma was a bum in Pittsburgh too. He literally only won in his mid season hire, not changing anything but a nicer voice from a team that had just been to the finals.
And then they never sniffed another Cup, let alone get to a final.
I'm 100% confident that Bylsma limited that franchise by at least 2 Cup Finals, from what they should have had.
I wasn't. I felt paying a 1st rounder to accelerate Guhle's development by 2 years was silly given the state of the franchise.... and even then it was a gamble that likely wouldn't pay off.
Has it cracked Top 3 dumbest trades of the Eichel Era?
Maybe what you saw on paper (RE: Montour) was just wrong?
Bylsma coached multiple teams to the playoffs....
Montour has been garbage under 4 NHL coaches.... so..... its probably not that.
brian_griffin
"Eric Cartman?"
The irony...Buffalo was on Berglund’s no trade list, and Botts found a way
It's not "bad luck" when so few of your 2nd round and later picks make the NHL (with BUF), or make the NHL but with another franchise than BUF who drafted them. it's the deadly duo of drafting and development.
sabremike
Kemonito superfan
Somebody else mentioned this but it is to me the single most damning indictment of Botts: He loaded up on defensemen whose biggest strength is joining in on offensive attacks (and has a franchise level defender whose insane offensive capabilities have rarely ever been seen at that position) and he hires a coach whose entire gameplan is to have his defensemen NOT do that. Honestly I don't know if this makes Botts look like the biggest idiot in the world or if it makes Ralph look like he deserves the honor. The worst coach you can possibly have is someone who utilizes their players in a way that negates their strengths and exposes their weaknesses. But Botts hired him, so he wins the biscuit.
The irony...
It's not "bad luck" when so few of your 2nd round and later picks make the NHL (with BUF), or make the NHL but with another franchise than BUF who drafted them. it's the deadly duo of drafting and development.
No, it's luck. So little of a player's development occurs under the auspice of the drafting team. That Compher turned into a decent player while Fasching busted is basically bad luck for Buffalo good luck for Colorado (and I suppose LA).
K8fool
Registered User
We are failing to understand drive personality and aversion to failure.. Maybe some of these get broken.. Lazar is the example of will .. Great pick up.. Maybe Jason understands..
I'll ask nicely..
Dear Jason,
If we can get an effort and result like against Toronto... Can we please trade a future that is two years off or two fir guy that is a legit top 6 for a push.. At least to attract FA.. C'MON..
It's the right move... Sheary is done here.. 2021 1st 2020 complete lotteey protect..ryan Johnson ..
Or.. I saw a chl player up fir columbus if cozens is itching .
Anyway.. This looked like a decent team the second and third.. Maybe the right guy adds 4 or 5 wins ..freeing up the clamp on jack and skinner that oloffson did tonight . in a league of parity yr always close to winning or close to the ledge..
So frankly, I don't think I understand enough of what you're saying to respond, but I don't think CHL players are available except as emergency recalls.
Yeah, Columbus has an injury list as long as Chara's stick right now. They met the criteria to recall Foudy because they are out of bodies.
K8fool
Registered User
Do you think the team can play well for three more games an earn a trade for a top six ? Do you trust botts anymore.. Is he operating a steatlth prove it tank.. Like a crucible of crap bootcamp or will he help this team win now? Have wr all wasted our breath and time talking about helping Eichel.. Can Botteril pick guys w will that refuse to fail..?
Buffaloed
webmaster
Botterill's been playing possum. The old rope-a-dope. He's got everyone underestimating him. Thinking they can take advantage. Now he's going to turn the tables and make trades that make fans of opposing teams cry. Botts is a hustler with nerves of steel. While we've been distraught and panicked he's been coolly setting up his marks like dominoes.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
This made me laugh, ruefully. So many of those comments either from Botterill or others about him.
Down Goes Brown: A guide to your GM's favorite trading...
DGB Grab Bag: Trade deadline rumors, when goalies get traded...
Quick - someone better make this man another beatification station / exclusion zone...
So, with Broudeau out, currently, the coaches available:
Babcock
Lavlioette
Broudeau
Gallant
Let's just ASSUME there is no way J-Botts can survive this shit storm. I'd let the new president/GM decide on Kruger.
Hire: Find a former NHL veteran GM with some success. Dean Lombardi comes to mind, Mike Gillis, etc. That is your Team President/GM. Let them bring on a protege with them as AGM. Someone they worked with previously who they feel could inherit the GM job after a season or two when they become full time president. The Pegula's need to give them FULL AUTONOMY. They've tried running a team with their hands on the wheel, time to let someone else drive for awhile.
You have them nuke from orbit the entire front office. No more letting scouts stick around because they've been here forever. It's a full front office cleanse and rebuild. Every position from Director of Scouting to Jr Assistant Towel Intern is up for a full review.
Let them hire the coach of their choice. If they want to keep Kruger, fine. No Pegula input. It's their guy in there for better or worse.
We're actually in a unique position with the volume of UFAs. The coach/GM can basically rebuild the entire forward core. It certainly won't be easy, but the GM SHOULD be able to make changes rather quickly.
Babcock
Lavlioette
Broudeau
Gallant
Let's just ASSUME there is no way J-Botts can survive this shit storm. I'd let the new president/GM decide on Kruger.
Hire: Find a former NHL veteran GM with some success. Dean Lombardi comes to mind, Mike Gillis, etc. That is your Team President/GM. Let them bring on a protege with them as AGM. Someone they worked with previously who they feel could inherit the GM job after a season or two when they become full time president. The Pegula's need to give them FULL AUTONOMY. They've tried running a team with their hands on the wheel, time to let someone else drive for awhile.
You have them nuke from orbit the entire front office. No more letting scouts stick around because they've been here forever. It's a full front office cleanse and rebuild. Every position from Director of Scouting to Jr Assistant Towel Intern is up for a full review.
Let them hire the coach of their choice. If they want to keep Kruger, fine. No Pegula input. It's their guy in there for better or worse.
We're actually in a unique position with the volume of UFAs. The coach/GM can basically rebuild the entire forward core. It certainly won't be easy, but the GM SHOULD be able to make changes rather quickly.
Top Three Bad Trades
Voldemort is the easy winner
I'm going to place the 6th rounder for a later 6th the following year on general principle. It was so unbelievably stupid and or lazy and arrogant. Followed closely by just a lack of respect for good practices.
But my surprise favorite is the Scandella trade.
Some might disagree for reasons....
But Scandella was really only decent for about 60 games of his three years here. He had a significant cap hit, and while we needed defense, was he really the best option?
Beyond what Scandella brought, we ate 10 million in total for Pommer, which considering how much crap Okposo gets here and Murray for the trade, is really under discussed for an enormous cap hit by a player barely at replacement level.
Meanwhile we gave up Ennis, who basically has performed as well or better than Poms did, and is still moderately useful, and more importantly we gave up Foligno, who was everything our forward group is still missing in the middle six. Who makes less than Sheary or Vesey.
Underrated awful trade.
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