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Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5

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Jim Bob said:
Listen to the The Full 60 Episode - Mike Gillis on expanding knowledge, advanced decision-making & lessons from the 2011 Cup Final on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio

You don't have to have an Athletic sub to listen to the podcast as it is available on most podcast apps.

It was a really interesting conversation. The best parts were when Gillis talked about how they approached things like altering how they approach their travel schedule to improve their away record and the analytical approach they took to finding Alex Burrows as the replacement for Anson Carter on the line with the Sedins.

He talked about how they were close to signing Michael Ryder to a big deal to put there and opted to pass and go in another direction because of the cap. How they came to that decision was really interesting.
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Thx for the summary I am not a podcast type of guy
 
I don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned in this thread yet. One of the biggest mistakes he made was passing on Shane Pinto in the 2019 draft for Johnson. The prospect pool and team in general lacked high end offensive talent and we passed on Pinto (who was taken a pick later) a big bodied skilled player for yet another defenseman. Pinto since seems to be lighting up the NCAA as a freshman and was one of the US best forwards at this years WJC. Johnson on the other hand didn’t make the WJC roster and has not been impressive as a freshman at Minnesota.

Taking another defenseman and passing up on a forward for a team and prospect pool that lacked high end offensive talent seems like a huge mismanagement of assets.

Can someone let me know if at the time Ryan Johnson pick was seen as a huge reach? I do not remember seeing him as a first round pick on many boards.
 
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debaser66 said:
He soured the whole Skinner situation with the contract.
Agree on Joker.
Before Cozens plays in the NHL & contributes I ll hold my breath.
Mitts looked even more promising at this point post draft.
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Eh, Mitts looked more promising in the U20's only. Comparing how Mitts was kind of pedestrian on a Gopher team bad enough to get long-entrenched head coach Don Lucia sacked vs. how Cozens is tearing it up in the WHL though and there is at least a bit more optimism. But it is hard to get too optimistic because prospects do become suspects quickly.
 
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RocSabres said:
I don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned in this thread yet. One of the biggest mistakes he made was passing on Shane Pinto in the 2019 draft for Johnson. The prospect pool and team in general lacked high end offensive talent and we passed on Pinto (who was taken a pick later) a big bodied skilled player for yet another defenseman. Pinto since seems to be lighting up the NCAA as a freshman and was one of the US best forwards at this years WJC. Johnson on the other hand didn’t make the WJC roster and has not been impressive as a freshman at Minnesota.

Taking another defenseman and passing up on a forward for a team and prospect pool that lacked high end offensive talent seems like a huge mismanagement of assets.

Can someone let me know if at the time Ryan Johnson pick was seen as a huge reach? I do not remember seeing him as a first round pick on many boards.
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Johnson seemed a bit of a reach to me at the time. He is supposed to be a hard worker, have elite skating, excellent hockey sense, and project as a NHL defensive defensemen though he is slightly smaller than I would like for that role. I fear that his work ethic helped elevate him over his talent and that the ceiling is not very high. I worry this was a wasted pick. Who knows.
 
RocSabres said:
Can someone let me know if at the time Ryan Johnson pick was seen as a huge reach? I do not remember seeing him as a first round pick on many boards.
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He was projected 45 at The Hockey Writers. There were several forwards that should have been ahead of Johnson as BPA, but we fetishize smooth skating defensemen. Bobby Brink, Hoglander, Lavoie, Kaliyev...
 
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RocSabres said:
I don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned in this thread yet. One of the biggest mistakes he made was passing on Shane Pinto in the 2019 draft for Johnson. The prospect pool and team in general lacked high end offensive talent and we passed on Pinto (who was taken a pick later) a big bodied skilled player for yet another defenseman. Pinto since seems to be lighting up the NCAA as a freshman and was one of the US best forwards at this years WJC. Johnson on the other hand didn’t make the WJC roster and has not been impressive as a freshman at Minnesota.

Taking another defenseman and passing up on a forward for a team and prospect pool that lacked high end offensive talent seems like a huge mismanagement of assets.

Can someone let me know if at the time Ryan Johnson pick was seen as a huge reach? I do not remember seeing him as a first round pick on many boards.
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As a draftnik, Pinto where he was selected was seen as a bit high and Johnson at where he was picked was not by pundits and broadcasters alike. Many had Pinto later, perhaps even as much as a round later, and it's a credit to him that he's done as well as he has in his D+1 season. Pinto was viewed as a grinder upside type player (and maybe he still is that, but he's making a case that he's got more to his game right now).
 
RocSabres said:
I don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned in this thread yet. One of the biggest mistakes he made was passing on Shane Pinto in the 2019 draft for Johnson. The prospect pool and team in general lacked high end offensive talent and we passed on Pinto (who was taken a pick later) a big bodied skilled player for yet another defenseman. Pinto since seems to be lighting up the NCAA as a freshman and was one of the US best forwards at this years WJC. Johnson on the other hand didn’t make the WJC roster and has not been impressive as a freshman at Minnesota.

Taking another defenseman and passing up on a forward for a team and prospect pool that lacked high end offensive talent seems like a huge mismanagement of assets.

Can someone let me know if at the time Ryan Johnson pick was seen as a huge reach? I do not remember seeing him as a first round pick on many boards.
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Re: Johnson, I don't think he was considered a big reach, really. If I remember correctly, he was often around the 32nd spot in this draft. At that point, it's kind of a personal choice.

Pinto wasn't really talked about that much around here for draft time. I believe Jame, in his yearly list, had him early 50's. I could be wrong, about that. I think I remember seeing him around Nolan Foote who I liked at the time.

But there was plenty of criticism about Botts not looking at talented forwards due to the limited amount we actually had in the pipeline (Nylander being the only one at the time prior to Cozens).
 
Chainshot said:
Eh, Mitts looked more promising in the U20's only. Comparing how Mitts was kind of pedestrian on a Gopher team bad enough to get long-entrenched head coach Don Lucia sacked vs. how Cozens is tearing it up in the WHL though and there is at least a bit more optimism. But it is hard to get too optimistic because prospects do become suspects quickly.
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I feel like you and I were the only ones watching Gopher hockey on a regular basis.haha
 
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Chainshot said:
I've had to cut back, mostly because of how my old cable provider does things. :D
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Me as well. Work, life, just became to busy to watch 5-7 games a week.

Gotta be honest, it was a lot more fun watching Eichel's BU season, catching McDavid live in Erie.

But back to Mitts. True freshman, looked like a true freshman.

To be honest, I like you, respect the hell out of the U's facilities and the lack of games in ncaa would have given Mitts plenty of opportunity to physically train to a world class level.

As of yet, Mitts doesn't appear to have the motivation to change his body, in thevway Reinhart did from d+1, to d+2 and beyond.
 
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This could be a rant if Ferraro said it with feeling
"They sign Marcus Johansson to a 2 year deal. He's a winger, but he's their second line center.

Casey Mittelstadt they drafted him 2 years ago. The kid couldn't do a pullup. That should tell you with all due respect, physically he's not ready to play in this league so we're going to take our time with him. So they jammed him in the lineup. Well he's not ready to play. Now he's in the AHL trying to relearn to play.

They decided to get a bunch of dmen at the beginning of the year and they were going to use them for assets. Well they got a bunch of dmen that are middle of the road guys. They bring in Colin Miller for two 2nd round picks and they use him as the 7th D or he doesn't play. They got a mishmash of stuff. It's just stuff."
 
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Buffaloed said:
This could be a rant if Ferraro said it with feeling
"They sign Marcus Johansson to a 2 year deal. He's a winger, but he's their second line center.

Casey Mittelstadt they drafted him 2 years ago. The kid couldn't do a pullup. That should tell you with all due respect, physically he's not ready to play in this league so we're going to take our time with him. So they jammed him in the lineup. Well he's not ready to play. Now he's in the AHL trying to relearn to play.

They decided to get a bunch of dmen at the beginning of the year and they were going to use them for assets. Well they got a bunch of dmen that are middle of the road guys. They bring in Colin Miller for two 2nd round picks and they use him as the 7th D or he doesn't play. They got a mishmash of stuff. It's just stuff."
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Looks like no one told Ferraro the 21-22 long term plan due to cap impossibilities and draft and develop ergh i mean put the unready into the lineup.

Edit: Surprised he went this hard. National media like him are usually far more gentle with direct criticism.
 
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Buffaloed said:
This could be a rant if Ferraro said it with feeling
"They sign Marcus Johansson to a 2 year deal. He's a winger, but he's their second line center.

Casey Mittelstadt they drafted him 2 years ago. The kid couldn't do a pullup. That should tell you with all due respect, physically he's not ready to play in this league so we're going to take our time with him. So they jammed him in the lineup. Well he's not ready to play. Now he's in the AHL trying to relearn to play.

They decided to get a bunch of dmen at the beginning of the year and they were going to use them for assets. Well they got a bunch of dmen that are middle of the road guys. They bring in Colin Miller for two 2nd round picks and they use him as the 7th D or he doesn't play. They got a mishmash of stuff. It's just stuff."
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“it’s just stuff” is the best description of a Botts roster
 
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Buffaloed said:
This could be a rant if Ferraro said it with feeling
"They sign Marcus Johansson to a 2 year deal. He's a winger, but he's their second line center.

Casey Mittelstadt they drafted him 2 years ago. The kid couldn't do a pullup. That should tell you with all due respect, physically he's not ready to play in this league so we're going to take our time with him. So they jammed him in the lineup. Well he's not ready to play. Now he's in the AHL trying to relearn to play.

They decided to get a bunch of dmen at the beginning of the year and they were going to use them for assets. Well they got a bunch of dmen that are middle of the road guys. They bring in Colin Miller for two 2nd round picks and they use him as the 7th D or he doesn't play. They got a mishmash of stuff. It's just stuff."
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I know of youth organizations that are run better than this.

I mean, this sounds a lot like what guys running a youth Rec B team are forced into
 
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