Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5

[SharkInABoloTie]

Hey we won. Let's continue to kick that can down the road

 

[truthbluth]

Listening to players comments after the game, they are definitely taking the criticism about the team on their own shoulders. And they are taking it personally. Expect the team to rally around their GM, winning just enough through the end of the year to make it look like progress. Botts is here to stay.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Listening to players comments after the game, they are definitely taking the criticism about the team on their own shoulders. And they are taking it personally. Expect the team to rally around their GM, winning just enough through the end of the year to make it look like progress. Botts is here to stay.

It doesn't matter if they are rallying around anybody...Krueger, Botterill, etc. They are getting sick of hearing fans and media talk about how terrible they are. It's all human nature, fans will complain. As a player though, you don't like losing and you don't like hearing about how bad you are year after year. Fans bring their unhappiness to the games over Pegula or Botterill, or certain really bad players like Bogosian sometimes, but it's the players that have to take it in the form of boos and frustrating questions from the media. After a while, they just don't want to hear about it anymore. Then you get to where you just have to tune it all out like McCabe said.

That rallying won't show in the form of winning games though. They just aren't good enough for now. They'll support each other and look at fans and media as the enemy they want to tune out from. It won't have any effect on Botterill's job status. That is strictly up to the Pegulas.

 

[truthbluth]

It doesn't matter if they are rallying around anybody...Krueger, Botterill, etc. They are getting sick of hearing fans and media talk about how terrible they are. It's all human nature, fans will complain. As a player though, you don't like losing and you don't like hearing about how bad you are year after year. Fans bring their unhappiness to the games over Pegula or Botterill, or certain really bad players like Bogosian sometimes, but it's the players that have to take it in the form of boos and frustrating questions from the media. After a while, they just don't want to hear about it anymore. Then you get to where you just have to tune it all out like McCabe said.

That rallying won't show in the form of winning games though. They just aren't good enough for now. They'll support each other and look at fans and media as the enemy they want to tune out from. It won't have any effect on Botterill's job status. That is strictly up to the Pegulas.

How they finish will absolutely impact Botterill’s future. If they finish strong, showing a lot of effort, they could eke out enough wins to make it look like progress. It won’t take much to make the Peguls think Botterill is on track. They really want to believe in him and will find excuses to keep him.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

How they finish will absolutely impact Botterill’s future. If they finish strong, showing a lot of effort, they could eke out enough wins to make it look like progress. It won’t take much to make the Peguls think Botterill is on track. They really want to believe in him and will find excuses to keep him.

This summer, and how those moves pan out over next season, will be the deciding factor for the Pegulas...well above how they finish down this stretch with a team that will be half gone after July 1st.

 

[sabrebuild]

Kevyn Adams is a no-brainer for president of hockey ops. He's a worker bee who will hire the right people. He knows a lot of them.

No brainer indeed. The guy has no significant experience in running an organization, but he is around. Maybe he and Adam Mair can be in charge together.

 

[debaser66]

I hope he doesnt do anything except aquiring picks for UFAs
I honestly don't trust his evaluation or asset management.

We just need the Pegulas money not their brain.
I honestly don't get the courting of billionaires.
He bought himself a toy he should learn to play with it.
Nobody deserves that much money period.

 

[VaporTrail]

How they finish will absolutely impact Botterill’s future. If they finish strong, showing a lot of effort, they could eke out enough wins to make it look like progress. It won’t take much to make the Peguls think Botterill is on track. They really want to believe in him and will find excuses to keep him.

They dont have the talent not the grit to finish strong...they are going straight to the bottom.....other teams are ramping up now too...we can't match those teams

 

[joshjull]

No brainer indeed. The guy has no significant experience in running an organization, but he is around. Maybe he and Adam Mair can be in charge together.

I have no idea if Adams would work in the role or not. I agree he doesn’t have much experience in running an organization. But would he even have to if he was hypothetically named VP of hockey ops? It would be VP in our organizational set up.

Ironically Adams is currently running the day to day business operations of the team in a VP position. No idea if what @Buffaloed is suggesting would mean continuing with that and adding hockey duties. Or removing him from the business side and just focusing on the hockey side of things.


But that gets me to my bigger point. That position President or VP of hockey ops has different sets of responsibilities from team to team. Thats assuming they even have one and its not just the GM with two titles. Its hard to know what specific experience would be most relevant to success unless the role was defined. Even then most people put in these positions are in them for the first time. Presidents/VP of hockey ops don‘t exactly move around the league like GMs and coaches do. Unless of course they are a former GM who had both titles.

 

[Buffaloed]

No brainer indeed. The guy has no significant experience in running an organization, but he is around. Maybe he and Adam Mair can be in charge together.

He's as qualified as Jim Lites, John Davidsson or Cam Neely were when the were hired as team presidents. He's probably the only one that was also a coach and player agent, and also has the all important MBA lol. He's significantly more qualified than Larry Quinn who somehow managed to hire Regier and Ruff and have respectable teams. I view it as an administrative position that requires being able to impose a structure and hire the right people. Realistically who else is out there that would want to work for the Pegulas and that the Pegulas like?

 

[debaser66]

I dont want him to draft this year.
but if he should actually get fired will the new GM have to rely on the information JB aquired?
What are the possible scenarios?

 

[jc17]

I have no idea what Adams' job responsibilities are. Maybe he is exclusively business/financial, but it seems funny that one of peoples' big complaints is the team's lousy operations and the suggestion is to promote a guy thats a VP of operations.

 

[Chainshot]

I don't know if there has ever been a GM for this team who has had so many of his moves prove poor. Even Gerry Meehan, who did silly things like let Ray Sheppard go for a dollar on waivers had some wins in his time as GM.

 

[sabrebuild]

He's as qualified as Jim Lites, John Davidsson or Cam Neely were when the were hired as team presidents. He's probably the only one that was also a coach and player agent, and also has the all important MBA lol. He's significantly more qualified than Larry Quinn who somehow managed to hire Regier and Ruff and have respectable teams. I view it as an administrative position that requires being able to impose a structure and hire the right people. Realistically who else is out there that would want to work for the Pegulas and that the Pegulas like?

Longer response got eaten by the internet, but.

If you are just saying you think its a likely move by the Pegulas, sure.

But on a what should they do path? No thank you.

Perhaps I'm jaded, but first why am I hiring someone to run an administrator position, who has dedicated their life first to playing sport and then to coaching it, and now has as much experience in administration as your average 26 year old HR person, who actually went to school and focused on that role and has likely no significant head shots in their life?

If it's because he has contacts, so what, so did botts, so does every candidate for a job like that.

More than anything give me some people with real resumes and experience in the job they are taking. No more gambles.

I see the names you listed who succeeded, and i raise you the hundreds wjo have failed in league history.

 

[Buffaloed]

I have no idea what Adams' job responsibilities are. Maybe he is exclusively business/financial, but it seems funny that one of peoples' big complaints is the team's lousy operations and the suggestion is to promote a guy thats a VP of operations.

Adams isn't VP of Operations, he's VP of Business Administration. He's a finance guy. He might be responsible for developing a strategic vision/overview of operations within a financial context but wouldn't be involved in day to day minutia. The fiasco with the misspelled alumni names and Kid's day falls under the auspices of the Media & Community Relations Dept. specifically Rich Jureller, VP of Community Relations/President of Sabres Foundation. As the head of the community relations department and the president of the Sabres Foundation, he is primarily responsible for overseeing the team's community outreach initiatives and all Sabres Foundation events. Looking at the Sabres Staff Directory. the PS&E staff directory, the Buffalo Bills staff directory, and the Harbor Center staff directory, the Pegulas have built a bureaucracy that the federal government would be proud of. It's wonder they get anything done.

 

[brian_griffin]

Improve the talent evaluators in every role within the org., and get someone at the top who will require those new views be heard and acted upon. It’s more than 1 person can fix.

 

[EichHart]

I don't know if there has ever been a GM for this team who has had so many of his moves prove poor. Even Gerry Meehan, who did silly things like let Ray Sheppard go for a dollar on waivers had some wins in his time as GM.

Getting Skinner and Joker for cheap were both wins. Also drafting Cozens was a win, if I'm trying to be optimistic.

 

[Jim Bob]

DGB weekend power rankings: Escaping the mushy middle, the...

Not the playoffs, barring a miracle, although a late-season run would certainly take some of the pressure off. But what if the Sabres continue to fade, and Jack Eichel spends the last two months of a breakout season that should have him in the Hart race playing meaningless games while fans check the lottery odds instead of the standings?

I’m not sure. I don’t think anybody is. Most of the anger from the fan base is being directed to the very top, at Terry and Kim Pegula, but they’re not going anywhere. Jason Botterill might be, after almost three years on the job. Ralph Krueger is presumably safe after just one season, although a new GM might want his own guy. For most teams, the playbook here is to bring in some popular former player to serve as a team president or figurehead and deflect some of the criticism with memories of happier times. Would Sabre fans fall for that old trick? I’m not sure they would. It didn’t work with Pat LaFontaine a few years ago, but maybe Chris Drury or somebody else shakes free.

We’ll see. There’s a strong appetite for change in Buffalo, and the Pegulas may find that standing pat isn’t an option. Blockbuster trades are hard to make when you don’t have much value to offer. Free agency hasn’t worked out great for this team in the Pegula era. Marketing slogans aren’t going to cut it. And they can’t make this all go away by ordering people not to talk about it.

In the short term, nothing’s going to help apart from winning. They took a step in that direction with Saturday’s overtime upset of the red hot Blue Jackets, so maybe that’s something they can build on. It’s not much, but it’s progress. This week brings a tough one with the Avs tomorrow, but that’s followed by a string of four very winnable games featuring the Ducks, Rangers and Red Wings twice. Win all of those and … well, you’re still too far out to pretend it’s a race. But at least the Duane’s of the world may not be as tempted to pick up the phone.

Good luck, Buffalo. The fans deserve better. It’s just getting hard to see a clear path to them getting there.

 

[Jim Bob]

Is it possible to give a quick summary for non subs.
Thx

Listen to the The Full 60 Episode - Mike Gillis on expanding knowledge, advanced decision-making & lessons from the 2011 Cup Final on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio

You don't have to have an Athletic sub to listen to the podcast as it is available on most podcast apps.

It was a really interesting conversation. The best parts were when Gillis talked about how they approached things like altering how they approach their travel schedule to improve their away record and the analytical approach they took to finding Alex Burrows as the replacement for Anson Carter on the line with the Sedins.

He talked about how they were close to signing Michael Ryder to a big deal to put there and opted to pass and go in another direction because of the cap. How they came to that decision was really interesting.

 

[Chainshot]

Adams isn't VP of Operations, he's VP of Business Administration. He's a finance guy. He might be responsible for developing a strategic vision/overview of operations within a financial context but wouldn't be involved in day to day minutia. The fiasco with the misspelled alumni names and Kid's day falls under the auspices of the Media & Community Relations Dept. specifically Rich Jureller, VP of Community Relations/President of Sabres Foundation. As the head of the community relations department and the president of the Sabres Foundation, he is primarily responsible for overseeing the team's community outreach initiatives and all Sabres Foundation events. Looking at the Sabres Staff Directory. the PS&E staff directory, the Buffalo Bills staff directory, and the Harbor Center staff directory, the Pegulas have built a bureaucracy that the federal government would be proud of. It's wonder they get anything done.

They didn't do a good job replacing Gilbert.

And one of the few things they seem adept at would be in Adams area of expertise - advertising sales. They have sold ad space on everything from the boards to the special teams. For how rank the on-ice product is, that's a win.

 

[Chainshot]

Listen to the The Full 60 Episode - Mike Gillis on expanding knowledge, advanced decision-making & lessons from the 2011 Cup Final on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio

You don't have to have an Athletic sub to listen to the podcast as it is available on most podcast apps.

It was a really interesting conversation. The best parts were when Gillis talked about how they approached things like altering how they approach their travel schedule to improve their away record and the analytical approach they took to finding Alex Burrows as the replacement for Anson Carter on the line with the Sedins.

He talked about how they were close to signing Michael Ryder to a big deal to put there and opted to pass and go in another direction because of the cap. How they came to that decision was really interesting.

Thanks for the link JB.

 

[Jim Bob]

Thanks for the link JB.

If you have a podcatcher that you use, I would just search there first.

I listened to it in the Apple Podcast app, for instance.

 

[Buffaloed]

They didn't do a good job replacing Gilbert.

And one of the few things they seem adept at would be in Adams area of expertise - advertising sales. They have sold ad space on everything from the boards to the special teams. For how rank the on-ice product is, that's a win.

It's been a mess since they purchased the Bills and expanded to PS&E. They didn't plan for that. HF content was controlled by CraveOnline with AtomicOnline having responsibility for the forum operations and Gorilla Nation serving ads. Who do you contact if you have a problem with an ad that's interfering with forum operations or violating content policy? Maybe you get fed up, spell the names phonetically and hope they're right.

 

[Chainshot]

It's been a mess since they purchased the Bills and expanded to PS&E. They didn't plan for that. HF content was controlled by CraveOnline with AtomicOnline having responsibility for the forum operations and Gorilla Nation serving ads. Who do you contact if you have a problem with an ad that's interfering with forum operations or violating content policy? Maybe you get fed up, spell the names phonetically and hope they're right.

I think we've just had the most "behind the curtain" look at what sort of hell you must deal with.

As an aside, I have always appreciated the work you've done there.

 

[debaser66]

Getting Skinner and Joker for cheap were both wins. Also drafting Cozens was a win, if I'm trying to be optimistic.

He soured the whole Skinner situation with the contract.
Agree on Joker.
Before Cozens plays in the NHL & contributes I ll hold my breath.
Mitts looked even more promising at this point post draft.