Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5

[RazielMoshman]

No. After he was loaned to the Ontario Reign the Sabres still had to pay him his full salary took a $4 million cap hit until his contract expired. They saved $1 million on the cap hit.

Wow, ok, thanks for clarifying. God, he was always this bad.

 

[Buffaloed]

Wow, ok, thanks for clarifying. God, he was always this bad.

There really is no way to bury contracts unless the player retires or agrees to a termination like Berglund. Even if they go on LTIR it can reduce your cap ceiling the following season.

 

[joshjull]

Wow, ok, thanks for clarifying. God, he was always this bad.

Not sure how you can get on Botts for the Moulson situation.

 

[RazielMoshman]

There really is no way to bury contracts unless the player retires or agrees to a termination like Berglund. Even if they go on LTIR it can reduce your cap ceiling the following season.

Very true, I just meant that I'd thought he'd worked something out to dump the contract off on another team or something similar.

There's part of me that thought Botterill was great at taking risks and building the team when he first got here. Now he's quiet, slow and seems permanently panicked. I was wrong about how he was different, that's all. I'm not getting on him just correcting my memory.

 

[Fezzy126]

I assume all of us live, breathe, and bleed sabres hockey - someone needs to say something about this **** show. We have been loyal as hell and need some answers from the GM or the owner. I get the sense that both are afraid to face the mob of unhappy fans...

There are literally no words in the english language that he could spit out that would appease people. The Pegulas are as big of fans as anyone in Buffalo. Unfortunately, it's been so long that all words will be considered hollow.

Even if he said he was firing everyone, there would be a large angry mob saying "Great, so now you can go hire another bunch of idiots so we can start the cycle over again"

The only thing that will fix this is a winning (and entertaining) product on the ice.

 

[Willgamesh]

Head has been and always will be a joke, writing has been on the wall for a while now, wish he would just disappear.

 

[explore]

This is where I'm at with Botterill:

 

[jc17]

What Botts ever have the balls to waive Bogo or Sobotka like the Bruins did with Backes?

Ralph actively likes Sobotka. Not sure how he feels about Bogo.

This is where I'm at with Botterill:

On my screen, unless I click on it, its just blank white square which also somewhat works.

Theres not a zero percent chance he did permanent damage here with our crack training staff

Other than the odd timing with Tage's surgery, I feel like shots at the medical staff are unwarranted. If there were a history of muscle pulls, screwed up surgeries, I'd get it.

 

[debaser66]

Skinner had destination control. While I agree with the rest, moving him at the TDL isn't a slam dunk.

Yes but the term & nmt (not even a modified one) aren't either unfortunately.
If he really wanted to be in either TOR or here I don't know what his actual leverage was.

 

[Chainshot]

Ralph actively likes Sobotka. Not sure how he feels about Bogo.


On my screen, unless I click on it, its just blank white square which also somewhat works.


Other than the odd timing with Tage's surgery, I feel like shots at the medical staff are unwarranted. If there were a history of muscle pulls, screwed up surgeries, I'd get it.

They have one of the highest numbers of man-games lost to injury over the last five years. It does call into question the whole of their preparation and treatment people.

 

[brian_griffin]

Why settle for cheap imitations when we can have the real Milbury? He's experienced and arrogant enough to think he can do the job.

If the Sabres hire Milbury, I'll beat him with my own shoe.

Botterill would have been run out of town if he didnt re-sign skinner. I dont love the deal but too many fans trying to have it both ways.

Fair, but he still gave up all his leverage. e.g., <$8M per if you want the full NMC, $8-8.5M if you do an 8-team, $9M for a 4-team. This franchise isn't a charity.

Not sure how you can get on Botts for the Moulson situation.

Agree. It's the most expeditious decision / action he's taken, aside from Joker/Skinner being dropped in his lap. The fact it was dealing with dead weight correctly makes it even more puzzling. Did he think he's only allowed one such action in his career? Is he that worried that's the reason future UFAs won't sign in BUF, and that rather will have nothing to do with other obvious factors - like record the past several years, drafting and development of supporting players, etc.?

 

[TehDoak]

Botterill would have been run out of town if he didnt re-sign skinner. I dont love the deal but too many fans trying to have it both ways.

So, now he's going to get run out of town because he couldn't make a move because we didn't have cap space. The silly narrative that we "had" to sign a guy to an awful contract. Would have been better to let him walk.

Have it both ways? Have competent management decisions that are consistent with not only what they say but also what is shown to work AND have some small measure of economy somewhere in what they do contractually? Doesn't seem this hard for some teams.

You forgot the topping!
The NMC
Is it actually a full or team list?

Full

The RoR Trade was strike 1 for J-Botts
Skinner contract was strike 2.
Strike 3 is going to be going into this season with an obviously bad roster and choosing to throw away a season rather than lose a trade or two to fix it.

 

[jc17]

They have one of the highest numbers of man-games lost to injury over the last five years. It does call into question the whole of their preparation and treatment people.

That definitely makes it more quantifiable, but still a lot of the big ones are just bad luck. Concussions for Dahlin and Okposo. The Skinner and Olofsson ones were fluky. And again, other than tage and maybe bogosian, there haven't been many players that are out longer than the initial forecast.

 

[jc17]

So, now he's going to get run out of town because he couldn't make a move because we didn't have cap space. The silly narrative that we "had" to sign a guy to an awful contract. Would have been better to let him walk.

I'm not debating the quality of the Skinner contract. Simply saying many people would have been as upset with Botts and the team if they let skinner walk.

The organization is viewed very poorly right now. If they let one of the better goal-scorers walk they'd be considered that much more of a joke, whether or not the contract was worth it.

 

[debaser66]

In a perfect world he would have fired Housley after drafting Dahlin, hired a vet coach, kept RoR & signed Reinhart for cheap.
& Let Mitts stay in university or AHL last season

 

[OkimLom]

So, now he's going to get run out of town because he couldn't make a move because we didn't have cap space. The silly narrative that we "had" to sign a guy to an awful contract. Would have been better to let him walk.

The RoR Trade was strike 1 for J-Botts
Skinner contract was strike 2.
Strike 3 is going to be going into this season with an obviously bad roster and choosing to throw away a season rather than lose a trade or two to fix it.

Strike 1 for me was hiring Housley
Strike 2 for me was the offseason where we traded away ROR and didn't fill the hole in with capable centerman.
Strike 3 was this season when self-sabotaged himself with roster spots, contracts, and forced Ralph to play a 11-7 system which causes the lineup to build less chemistry and further makes us worse.

There have been plenty other issues but those 3 issues just encompasses everything that makes him a poor GM and gives me no confidence he is the solution. These are team-harming decisions.

 

[debaser66]

I'm not debating the quality of the Skinner contract. Simply saying many people would have been as upset with Botts and the team if they let skinner walk.

The organization is viewed very poorly right now. If they let one of the better goal-scorers walk they'd be considered that much more of a joke, whether or not the contract was worth it.

If they really sign people to bad contracts to not look bad that's the definition of a joke.

 

[Fezzy126]

If they really sign people to bad contracts to not look bad that's the definition of a joke.

Not trying to be purposely argumentative, but the Drury contract would have been a terrible contract and this organization is still ridiculed for not signing it.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Why is this man still employed?????

 

[RazielMoshman]

If they really sign people to bad contracts to not look bad that's the definition of a joke.

I think the point is that it wouldn't be bad if he'd be left on Eichel's line. It's only bad because he doesn't have a centre or opposing wing on his team. Well, the winger on his line is playing C and Sobo was the other winger. We knew what he was and he was paid that much to score a ton of goals with Eichel. The fault in Skinner is more Krueger than Skinner.

Just listened to the PDOcast and Filipovic said something interesting, the Sabres put Skinner on Eichel's line in a contract year and he scored 40 goals, they resigned him to this huge contract, now in Reinhart and Ofolsson's contract years, they put them on Eichel's line. When you think about it that way this team is spectacularly mismanaged. The coach and GM don't seem on the same page, the GM hasn't got a plan and the Pegula's are trying to shut down the negative press. Ok I'm going to stop now.

 

[Chainshot]

No. After he was loaned to the Ontario Reign the Sabres still had to pay him his full salary took a $4 million cap hit until his contract expired. They saved $1 million on the cap hit.

And his agent found him the gig. It's what Boston told Backes to do as well.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

Strike 1 for me was hiring Housley
Strike 2 for me was the offseason where we traded away ROR and didn't fill the hole in with capable centerman.
Strike 3 was this season when self-sabotaged himself with roster spots, contracts, and forced Ralph to play a 11-7 system which causes the lineup to build less chemistry and further makes us worse.

There have been plenty other issues but those 3 issues just encompasses everything that makes him a poor GM and gives me no confidence he is the solution. These are team-harming decisions.

I wasn't overly fond of the Housley hire, but was at least encouraged by his work with the stellar Nashville defense. But after the first year, it was beyond evident that Housley was not the answer - they played without structure. He should have been gone the second that Barry Trotz became available. But we held on to Housley for all of last year. The team basically mailed it in after January, and we did nothing.

ROR was easily my favorite Sabres player in the past twenty years. But Botts wanted a cultural shift. Instead of firing the incompetent coach, he traded ROR.

I could get past the first two items, but he has completely failed at the sole purpose of a GM: roster building. There is no purpose, no over-arching philosophy to this roster. He cannot identify forward talent and has completely failed in adding depth to this roster. He has paid handsomely for atrocious return. Vesey for a 3rd, Montour for Guhle and a 1st, Miller for a 2nd and 5th, Sheary and Hunwick for a 4th, ROR for TT, Sobotka, and Berglund. We all love Jokiharju, but that move necessitates moving one of your other RD. The price you paid is a sunk cost, deal Miller or Montour for something useful while they still have any value.

Botterill has:

• Failed to identify depth players, wasting roster spots and cap space on detritus like Vesey and Frolik
• Failed to address obvious needs and areas of surplus via trade
• Has demonstrated poor draft asset management
• Has wasted a year+ of development for two key forward prospects in Thompson and Mittelstadt

 

[Chainshot]

That definitely makes it more quantifiable, but still a lot of the big ones are just bad luck. Concussions for Dahlin and Okposo. The Skinner and Olofsson ones were fluky. And again, other than tage and maybe bogosian, there haven't been many players that are out longer than the initial forecast.

It's the number of players tweaked and dinged in the last 5-6 years that starts to make one at least want to look deeper into it. It hasn't all been bad luck and they have had more than just two players who have had longer delays in recovery.

 

[Buffaloed]

Botterill just made a great trade for new servers. They're actually overpriced used ones that have performance issues.

 

[sabremike]

Botterill just made a great trade for new servers. They're actually overpriced used ones that have performance issues.

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