Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5

[RazielMoshman]

That's where I'm at. And I know it is purely coming from the point that the last two inexperienced GM's haven't worked, while the previous two did. So... it is definitely recency bias on my part.

And as for Drury, he has made statements of devotion to the Rangers and they to him. Beyond my visceral reaction to his departure being a "**** him and the horse he rode off on", there is that whole blocking thing.

In fairness, Reiger made little to no attempt to keep him or Drury for anything like market value. I don't blame them for leaving. I've stated before that I have a soft spot for him as a player and think his a rational, smart guy so I admit my bias here. The experience is also my biggest hangup here though.

You're right about blocking, that's been a big thing and will be the biggest part in us replacing Botts. I don't know how many unemployed GM's are worth taking a shot on, it's not like Pegs can risk another dud.

 

[Jame]

In fairness, Reiger made little to no attempt to keep him or Drury for anything like market value. I don't blame them for leaving. I've stated before that I have a soft spot for him as a player and think his a rational, smart guy so I admit my bias here. The experience is also my biggest hangup here though.

You're right about blocking, that's been a big thing and will be the biggest part in us replacing Botts. I don't know how many unemployed GM's are worth taking a shot on, it's not like Pegs can risk another dud.

That's not true.

Briere and Regier wanted to do a 5 x 5.0 deal, and Quinn/Golisano wouldn't let them do anything more than 3 years... which led to arbitration, 1 year at 5.0, and UFA. This showed Briere we werent serious about winning

Drury and Regier had a 5 x 7.5 deal agreed to and ready to go in season, but Quinn/Golisano again intervened, wouldn't let them do a deal in season. This showed allowed Drury to hit free agency where the Rangers outbid us.

 

[Chainshot]

In fairness, Reiger made little to no attempt to keep him or Drury for anything like market value. I don't blame them for leaving. I've stated before that I have a soft spot for him as a player and think his a rational, smart guy so I admit my bias here. The experience is also my biggest hangup here though.

You're right about blocking, that's been a big thing and will be the biggest part in us replacing Botts. I don't know how many unemployed GM's are worth taking a shot on, it's not like Pegs can risk another dud.

From what was public about this: Regier put an offer in front of Drury sometime in November of that season that was to Regier's mind a done deal. Drury's agent said he was waiting for confirmation from Quinn/BTG that on some point, but they had an offer out there that they thought was agreed upon.

Briere? That guy they did mess with and that was on Quinn because Larry didn't like Danny going to and winning his arbitration hearing. It wasn't until the miscommunication about the Drury deal became clear to them that they then low-balled Danny, but he was at that point burnt. (Or his wife was burnt, she had their house for sale immediately.) I've also heard that Drury's desire to not have to be the face of things worked for him with Briere being the media presence guy and that them treating Danny badly helped sour his view of the ownership/franchise, making it easy for him to step off. Yes, they came to blows in a practice before the ECF with the Sens that year, but they remain friends and Danny now works for Chris.

The Gillis as President thing seems like a lifeline. Let him handle organization building, let him handle hiring the GM from the pool of his hockey connections and the lessons he says he's learned from his time in Vancouver. If it turns out that someone like him hires someone's AGM, I'd be much less likely to think it would be an immediate flop than if Kim and Terry again go shopping for a new manager.

 

[truthbluth]

That's not true.

Briere and Regier wanted to do a 5 x 5.0 deal, and Quinn/Golisano wouldn't let them do anything more than 3 years... which led to arbitration, 1 year at 5.0, and UFA. This showed Briere we werent serious about winning

Drury and Regier had a 5 x 7.5 deal agreed to and ready to go in season, but Quinn/Golisano again intervened, wouldn't let them do a deal in season. This showed allowed Drury to hit free agency where the Rangers outbid us.

True story. In 2007 I was bartending at Allen St. Hardware. Larry Quinn hung out there. I heard him explain to another patron that Drury called him personally on July 1 and said, “I have an offer from the Rangers that you can’t match.” And Quinn said, “Chris, we’ll match anything,” And Drury said, “You can’t. I want to be a Ranger.” The f*** up was not closing the deal during the season, and not that they refused to match the Rangers offer. Not that it matters, but nonetheless, true story.

 

[K8fool]

I'm all for "anyone but Botts" right now, but do we really want yet another GM with no GM experience?

Good point.... Ill retract.. I just liked the karmic angle of hiring drury..

 

[Jame]

True story. In 2007 I was bartending at Allen St. Hardware. Larry Quinn hung out there. I heard him explain to another patron that Drury called him personally on July 1 and said, “I have an offer from the Rangers that you can’t match.” And Quinn said, “Chris, we’ll match anything,” And Drury said, “You can’t. I want to be a Ranger.” The **** up was not closing the deal during the season, and not that they refused to match the Rangers offer. Not that it matters, but nonetheless, true story.

If I f***ed up a Stanley Cup caliber roster, I'd have a bar story to tell about it too... lol

(agreed the f*** up was not locking him up when they had agreement in november)

 

[Chainshot]

This is a bit black and white. The worst contracts are Murrays, the most expensive are Botterills. Eichel and Skinner are Botterill, Okposo and Bogo (among others) are Murray.

The worst contract is Murray's (Bogosian). On that I will agree. He is Murray's poison pill.

Okposo is a functioning player, with a role and a line that regularly tips possession in the Sabres favor. He has a use.

Skinner is on Botterill. And then the $20-ish million he has spent on filling out his roster with Sobotka, Vesey, Sheary, Hunwick, Miller, Montour, Frolik, Hutton, Rodrigues and yes Johansson.

Edit... check that. It is is $38.5875 million that he has tossed into the furnace for half of his roster on his acquisitions. The worst contracts on the team are that collection right there and even taking Skinner's over-size, negotiating-against-themselves deal out of it, it's a hair under $30 million dollars on f*** all.

 

[Jame]

The worst contract is Murray's (Bogosian). On that I will agree. He is Murray's poison pill.

Okposo is a functioning player, with a role and a line that regularly tips possession in the Sabres favor. He has a use.

Skinner is on Botterill. And then the $20-ish million he has spent on filling out his roster with Sobotka, Vesey, Sheary, Hunwick, Miller, Montour, Frolik, Hutton, Rodrigues and yes Johansson.

Edit... check that. It is is $38.5875 million that he has tossed into the furnace for half of his roster on his acquisitions. The worst contracts on the team are that collection right there and even taking Skinner's over-size, negotiating-against-themselves deal out of it, it's a hair under $30 million dollars on **** all.

The horror...

 

[truthbluth]

If I ****ed up a Stanley Cup caliber roster, I'd have a bar story to tell about it too... lol

(agreed the **** up was not locking him up when they had agreement in november)

Bars are confessionals man. I’ve heard some pretty messed up things.

 

[Chainshot]

Bars are confessionals man. I’ve heard some pretty messed up things.

So are PM's and DM's.

True story. In 2007 I was bartending at Allen St. Hardware. Larry Quinn hung out there. I heard him explain to another patron that Drury called him personally on July 1 and said, “I have an offer from the Rangers that you can’t match.” And Quinn said, “Chris, we’ll match anything,” And Drury said, “You can’t. I want to be a Ranger.” The **** up was not closing the deal during the season, and not that they refused to match the Rangers offer. Not that it matters, but nonetheless, true story.

Was he with a woman who was not his wife? Was it at City Grill?

 

[TehDoak]

How bad is it in Sabreland, a guide

Not bad at all: Season ticket waiting list, Fans excited about going to the game, Sabres jerseys are worn proudly around town
A little bad: Sellouts are less common, Fans are pretty engaged still, but only during post-Bills, pre Summer period. Don't see Sabres jersey outside of gameday experience
Things are Bad: Stubhub has Sabres tickets for $20 in the 100 level, Sabres fans are engaged, but only about how quickly the front office will do something/get fired
Things are on fire: Fans talking about the finer points of 7/1/07 <----You are Here

 

[truthbluth]

So are PM's and DM's.




Was he with a woman who was not his wife? Was it at City Grill?

No. I don’t know the reference, but I do/did know City Grille and people that worked there. This was at Hardware.

edit: scratch that, he was with a younger woman and I’m pretty sure she was his Personal assistant.

 

[Dubi Doo]

The worst contract is Murray's (Bogosian). On that I will agree. He is Murray's poison pill.

Okposo is a functioning player, with a role and a line that regularly tips possession in the Sabres favor. He has a use.

Skinner is on Botterill. And then the $20-ish million he has spent on filling out his roster with Sobotka, Vesey, Sheary, Hunwick, Miller, Montour, Frolik, Hutton, Rodrigues and yes Johansson.

Edit... check that. It is is $38.5875 million that he has tossed into the furnace for half of his roster on his acquisitions. The worst contracts on the team are that collection right there and even taking Skinner's over-size, negotiating-against-themselves deal out of it, it's a hair under $30 million dollars on **** all.

But, but he'll have cap space to work with this offseason. Surely he'll switch his motives then. All the crapola he acquired before was just to fill the roster because why not?

Also, Joki and Dahlin are up for extensions next offseason, so we'll have to be mindful of that. And...what UFA is going to want to play for a franchise that hasn't made the playoffs in nearly a decade, has been one of the worst teams in the league the past 3 years, and has had 3-4 players request a trade?

 

[Chainshot]

The horror...

For some reason I kept rounding it off as "20ish million" in my head. Then I did the math. Like... f***. I played around with the capfriendly points/$ and goals/$ link the other day, and Bogo is almost dead last in the league, but Sobotka is actually worse. I was amazed.

 

[Scherbs]

The worst contract is Murray's (Bogosian). On that I will agree. He is Murray's poison pill.

Okposo is a functioning player, with a role and a line that regularly tips possession in the Sabres favor. He has a use.

Skinner is on Botterill. And then the $20-ish million he has spent on filling out his roster with Sobotka, Vesey, Sheary, Hunwick, Miller, Montour, Frolik, Hutton, Rodrigues and yes Johansson.

Edit... check that. It is is $38.5875 million that he has tossed into the furnace for half of his roster on his acquisitions. The worst contracts on the team are that collection right there and even taking Skinner's over-size, negotiating-against-themselves deal out of it, it's a hair under $30 million dollars on **** all.

 

[Jame]

For some reason I kept rounding it off as "20ish million" in my head. Then I did the math. Like... ****. I played around with the capfriendly points/$ and goals/$ link the other day, and Bogo is almost dead last in the league, but Sobotka is actually worse. I was amazed.

Don't look... really don't do it....





(Skinner's cost per point this year is about the same as Okposo's)

 

[Chainshot]

Don't look... really don't do it....





(Skinner's cost per point this year is about the same as Okposo's)

Yep, and I'm firmly on the side of paying for ESG's, which is what they did for Skinner. But I will again revisit that it's a million more than I'm comfortable with (which may just be me, I feel the same way about Jack's extension which while it looks worth it for a Hart type player, is market value and not a team "value" deal if it had been a million less).

 

[TehDoak]

Don't look... really don't do it....





(Skinner's cost per point this year is about the same as Okposo's)

it's almost like giving a player who had a 20 game goal less streak at the end of the season a 9M contract was a BAD idea.

 

[Buffaloed]

We hired this generation’s Milbury.

Just accept that more insanity is coming.

Why settle for cheap imitations when we can have the real Milbury? He's experienced and arrogant enough to think he can do the job.

 

[OkimLom]

Why settle for cheap imitations when we can have the real Milbury? He's experienced and arrogant enough to think he can do the job.

That is one move that would make me change my allegiance the second it's announced. There's no doubt in my mind that, if there is a man that would purposely ruin the Buffalo Sabres intentionally, it's him.

 

[Chainshot]

That's not true.

Briere and Regier wanted to do a 5 x 5.0 deal, and Quinn/Golisano wouldn't let them do anything more than 3 years... which led to arbitration, 1 year at 5.0, and UFA. This showed Briere we werent serious about winning

Drury and Regier had a 5 x 7.5 deal agreed to and ready to go in season, but Quinn/Golisano again intervened, wouldn't let them do a deal in season. This showed allowed Drury to hit free agency where the Rangers outbid us.

Briere would have taken 4 years at 5. I have the PM's saved on my old standalone hard-drive. He loved the Sabres, loved Buffalo.

And one could also infer that Chris didn't like how they were treating Danny and it soured him on them being serious about winning. Chris didn't want to be the guy in front of the camera after every game. I don't have that from Drury himself, but I do have enough info to make that inference.

 

[darcyRegier]

I would say he was trying to build a finesse skilled team. A team that relies heavily on skating and puck skills, where gaps on the ice are attacked. Where stick checks and quick transition is the name of the game instead of body positioning and consistent puck possession.

Yea their recent draft picks seem to show a trend for faster skilled forwards, but everynight I watch a 2nd 3rd and 4th line filled with forwards that are some bad combination of slow, soft, and unskilled. I still don't see much of an identity up front.

I like what he's done with the defense, but the forward group is so atrocious that it completely negates a pretty good d corps.

 

[Jame]

Yep, and I'm firmly on the side of paying for ESG's, which is what they did for Skinner. But I will again revisit that it's a million more than I'm comfortable with (which may just be me, I feel the same way about Jack's extension which while it looks worth it for a Hart type player, is market value and not a team "value" deal if it had been a million less).

Both those contracts showed how ill equipped Botts is in team building

 

[Buffaloed]

That is one move that would make me change my allegiance the second it's announced. There's no doubt in my mind that, if there is a man that would purposely ruin the Buffalo Sabres intentionally, it's him.

He's active and decisive. Has a firm grasp of what he wants. He was the prototype for Tim Murray.

 

[RazielMoshman]

That's not true.

Briere and Regier wanted to do a 5 x 5.0 deal, and Quinn/Golisano wouldn't let them do anything more than 3 years... which led to arbitration, 1 year at 5.0, and UFA. This showed Briere we werent serious about winning

Drury and Regier had a 5 x 7.5 deal agreed to and ready to go in season, but Quinn/Golisano again intervened, wouldn't let them do a deal in season. This showed allowed Drury to hit free agency where the Rangers outbid us.

Fair enough, wasn't aware/had forgotten all that.