Jason Botterill Discussion 2

[The Red Helmet]

Things he’s done right:
- Did what was necessary talent-wise to get Dahlin.
- Brought over Taylor for Rochester
- traded for first dibs to re-sign Skinner (1/2 credit since that isn’t done yet)
- Signed Pilut

Things he’ll get credit for but feel was done by others:
- 2017 Draft. Used Murray’s guys IIRC for the draft.
- 2018 Draft, outside Dahlin, only piece that I’m a little excited for is Pekar because he’s unique to the pipeline.

IMO, it’s tough to say he’s doing a better job in terms of building a team when we haven’t seen what the his idea of what kind of players they want here. He’s done the very minimum in overturning the roster. Those that he has overturned on the roster with are not of any starting quality. Right now, I’d say it’s a work in progress, it’s part of the reason why I’m okay giving him 2 more years, depending on what he does this offseason. If there is not a focus on changing the attitude on the ice and in the room, and a change of the bench (which could do all this in one shot depending on the hire), then his time for me is up at the end of next season. I’m not even asking for an improvement of talent, just change what it means to be a Buffalo Sabre. We need some pride.

Why at the end of next season? Why let him stick around for another season to mess it up more? Like Chainshot said, based off what he has done so far, I am worried about the moves he might make now when he is pressing to save his job, in what would be a make or break year for him. He knows he may never get another shot again after this mess, so why even have a GM who is in that position. Just dump him next week with Housley and bring in a real GM and coach.

 

[MagnumForce2]

Why at the end of next season? Why let him stick around for another season to mess it up more? Like Chainshot said, based off what he has done so far, I am worried about the moves he might make now when he is pressing to save his job, in what would be a make or break year for him. He knows he may never get another shot again after this mess, so why even have a GM who is in that position. Just dump him next week with Housley and bring in a real GM and coach.

His trading prowess or should I say lack of scares me....so I am not sure if I want him making any more moves that might involve key players or assets on the team. After this season they may decide to move some players out for change or because they are unhappy....I am not confident he is the one I want in charge of that.

 

[SwordStanley10]

I just tried to write a post that looked at how I would like to see Botterill, if he's retained, actually start to do things well. And I realized that I have no quarter for him. He's burned me up and I have no space to give him further opportunities. He's made too many mistakes for me to trust that he's going to suddenly change in terms of his talent evaluation or coaching hires or how he manages his roster to think that is going to happen.

In short, I have no hope for him.

And with that, I dread the damage he has done and will do as he tries to save his job.

He seems to me like a guy who makes a decent AGM but nothing more. He just simply doesn't have it to take the next step and be the head-guy calling the shots. To me the biggest disappointment is that for a guy who was sold at the time of his hiring as cutting edge, intelligent, educated - he's making the same old-time hockey bullshit decisions that have no merit or justification.

For someone who was lauded for his intelligence and education, the fact that he has an analytics group that is in no way evidenced by the decisions made with the on-ice product is infuriating. If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup in a cap league, you throw every damn dollar you have in any other way you can to gain a competitive advantage. The fact that Buffalo doesn't have the most well-funded or renowned analytics group in the NHL is inexcusable. Just imagine how well having a cutting edge analytics group and brain trust on the Sabres and the breeding ground for this research would work with what they are doing with Harborcentre? It could be a gold mine but again, another missed opportunity for this ownership.

It not all possible in Buffalo if/when a new GM is hired (nor do I think it should happen, things are now too far gone) but I can see for Botterill that his next job is where he is again the cap guy/ minor team GM like he was in Pittsburgh and being much better suited for success in this singular, managed role

 

[OkimLom]

Why at the end of next season? Why let him stick around for another season to mess it up more? Like Chainshot said, based off what he has done so far, I am worried about the moves he might make now when he is pressing to save his job, in what would be a make or break year for him. He knows he may never get another shot again after this mess, so why even have a GM who is in that position. Just dump him next week with Housley and bring in a real GM and coach.

Trust me, I’m not a supporter of Botts, but I’m willing to give the man a chance to make the necessary changes. If you want to, can him any point in the season if he sits on his hands. I’m someone who, because of the usual results for a GM’s decision are to be done with a long term plan in mind, believes a GM should get at least 4 years to show what his plan is. Of course there might be situations where that particular GM might get less if there circumstances that call for him being fired.

 

[dasaybz]

How much criticism of the ROR deal is on him when he clearly had an ultimatum from ownership for whatever reason.

Hes been fine trade--wise other than that disaster. I don't want to fire another GM so soon. Housley is gone. I think we need to see Botts plan all the way through.

 

[sabrebuild]

I for one am sick of criticism or praise of Botterill being met with praise or criticism of Murray. That will always have its place but can we talk about the good and bad Botterill has done on its own merits even a little bit?

Anyone who thinks he has done a good job so far is delusional. If you think he hasn't done a terrible job so far then that is entirely reasonable. I couldn't care less if someone thinks he is doing a better job than Murray because it just doesn't matter.

For my money, the only thing he has done right, with the benefit of hindsight, is drafting. His drafting thus far looks good. It's too early to say that conclusively, but I'm happy with it.

Two trades I liked at the time (Scandella, Sheary) are not likeable anymore. The Skinner trade might amount to renting a top 6 player for a high 2nd for a team that is in the basement. Or it might result in a bad contract. So, the one trade that looked uniformly positive may well wind up 'meh' at best. The ROR trade, thus far, was one of the worst Sabres trades in my lifetime. I like the Montour deal so far even if a touch rich. The net effect of these moves has left us no better as a team without a real improvement in assets/futures and even more dead weight cap space.

He hired Housley and recently defended him vigorously. Enough said there. But he is allegedly doing a better job than Murray so basically he is killing it. Give me a break.

Succinct and on point. Bravo.

 

[sabrebuild]

How much criticism of the ROR deal is on him when he clearly had an ultimatum from ownership for whatever reason.

Hes been fine trade--wise other than that disaster. I don't want to fire another GM so soon. Housley is gone. I think we need to see Botts plan all the way through.

I wish we knew what the plan was.

 

[dasaybz]

I wish we knew what the plan was.

Dude. I friggin hope he has one. He has to have a plan. He has an mba right? Sigh. ... . ... .. ..

 

[sabrebuild]

Honestly, following the logic of some of these posts is kind of unbelievable.

 

[sabrebuild]

Dude. I friggin hope he has one. He has to have a plan. He has an mba right? Sigh. ... . ... .. ..

Ya, an mba... Sigh. Me too

 

[DJN21]

Speed speed speed. That's all we ever hear. Because the pens won the cup that way (with 2 world class players, 2 top end players, 2 good goalies, and a guenztel he personally groomed etc).

I'm over that "model". The winning model varies year to year. Maybe finishing a check for a change will spark the team? Stop following back models of winning teams and build our own model. There's a clear lack of heart here. The media had to call out nelson to get him to fight a tilt he had no chance of winning just to try and prove a point. It's sad.

 

[Royisgone]

He seems to me like a guy who makes a decent AGM but nothing more. He just simply doesn't have it to take the next step and be the head-guy calling the shots. To me the biggest disappointment is that for a guy who was sold at the time of his hiring as cutting edge, intelligent, educated - he's making the same old-time hockey bull**** decisions that have no merit or justification.

For someone who was lauded for his intelligence and education, the fact that he has an analytics group that is in no way evidenced by the decisions made with the on-ice product is infuriating. If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup in a cap league, you throw every damn dollar you have in any other way you can to gain a competitive advantage. The fact that Buffalo doesn't have the most well-funded or renowned analytics group in the NHL is inexcusable. Just imagine how well having a cutting edge analytics group and brain trust on the Sabres and the breeding ground for this research would work with what they are doing with Harborcentre? It could be a gold mine but again, another missed opportunity for this ownership.

It not all possible in Buffalo if/when a new GM is hired (nor do I think it should happen, things are now too far gone) but I can see for Botterill that his next job is where he is again the cap guy/ minor team GM like he was in Pittsburgh and being much better suited for success in this singular, managed role

Well, we do have a really fancy dressing room/players' lounge area. LOL

I bet they have spent a lot of money beefing up the scouting department, which is funny, b/c not only is that not necessary, it doesn't seem to be producing anything positive.

I do enjoy, though, when Phil tells us he which goalie is he starting and then supports the decision based on whether we won or lost the last game.

 

[HaNotsri]

My guess on the excuses:
We are a young team. Berglund left. The first half of the season was great=next year we will have an older squad and everything will be great. Housley stays.

 

[Sabre Dance]

My guess on the excuses:
We are a young team. Berglund left. The first half of the season was great=next year we will have an older squad and everything will be great. Housley stays.

Botterill already said the streak was a fluke.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

How much criticism of the ROR deal is on him when he clearly had an ultimatum from ownership for whatever reason.

Hes been fine trade--wise other than that disaster. I don't want to fire another GM so soon. Housley is gone. I think we need to see Botts plan all the way through.

Ok I am not from Buffalo so maybe I don't know the media like you locals but has there been ANY evidence Botts was forced to make the ROR trade?.Or was the trade SO bad that everyone assumes he was forced because nobody in their right mind would make that trade?I would really like to believe he was forced but is there a link or something to ease my mind?

 

[Sabre the Win]

I've been on the can Housley train forever, last season and during the 10 game win streak however I dont think Botterill is the problem. He has got Rochester to the playoffs in back to back seasons. He has done exactly what he said he would do and build a championship team within and that begins in Rochester.

During the 10 game win streak Botterill said that this is a building season, Kim Pegula backed up the sentiment, if he would have bought players at trade deadline and set us back a couple more years we would be in worse shape in the long run even if we snuck into a playoff spot.

His ROR trade was horrible but if Housley wasnt such a bad coach this team would have built off Bylsma's 80 point season and maybe ROR would have changed his tune.

There are a ton of variables out there, I think Botterill is building the right way, internally, I think Berglund leaving really tore this team apart, I mean Risto even said he was one of the best teammates hes been around. It was on Housley to rally the troops after Berglund leaving and he could not do that. I dont blame any of that on Botterill.

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Botterill already said the streak was a fluke.

A random late night thought...if the streak was indeed a fluke and the Sabres played, say, January/February form during November, would Botts still have stood pat with everything even with the team trending towards dead last again?

 

[sabremike]

Fun fact: forget the whole thing, if you even took away HALF of that 10 game streak and they were regulation losses we would be the worst team in the league record wise by virtue of fewer ROW than Ottawa. That is what Botts has built: a historically bad team.

 

[Gabrielor]

Get this guy out of here too. “Sharp”, my ass.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

Ok so who would be a great GM heading forward if Botts is fired? Thoughts?

 

[Gabrielor]

10 million cash to Steve Yzerman.

 

[Aladyyn]

Ok so who would be a great GM heading forward if Botts is fired? Thoughts?

I volunteer.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

I volunteer.

Upgrade

 

[OkimLom]

I'd like to throw my hat in, but I also would require the Sabres to hire a President so I don't have to deal directly with fanboy Terry.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Setting aside how Botterill cratered his current lineup with the O'Reilly deal...

From last season, the waiver wire guys who were appreciably better than various members of the Sabres last year...

Confirmed with Link: - Jason Botterill: it's a situation where he is the new General Manager -- MOD WARNING #1851

Roster Speculation '17-'18: Someone, Somewhere, In Summertime

Then there are current players like Brassard or Sheahan who both were available and went in different trades for a song, both are substantially better players than Sobotka. Andrew Cogliano is also better than Sobotka at just about everything. Drake Caggiula was jettisoned from the Oilers, he's an effective speedy depth winger who could also force bums like Sobotka, Elie and even Okposo into the pressbox. Josh Leivo went for essentially nothing, he's an effective 3rd line LW.

Nate Thompson is an effective 4th liner, went for next to nothing. Jordan Weal? Same thing.

Waivers this year? Dmitri Jaskin over Remi Elie is an easy one. Marco Dano, Jacob Delarose...

Cogliano has too much term and salary for what he is. Sheahan had hit rock bottom and had a decent come back year with Pitt, but still is he worth replacing Larsson, because he's not much of an improvement for the Sabres as a 10-10-20 guy. Brassard and Sheahan got dealt in a three-way deal which was a little convoluted and not a good comparison for what Botterill coulda/shoulda done. Caggiula, Leivo, Jaskin, are all ok players and I'd be happy if Botterill acquired them, but I can't pretend that this season is different with changing the names of bottom six fodder. Even the collective effect of those minor upgrades doesn't make this a playoff team.

I will take your sentiment a massive step further though. I posted last spring that if O'Reilly is getting traded, I wanted to target Lindholm and Hanifin as RFAs wanting raises that the Hurricanes owner was too cheap to pay. O'Reilly + Guhle + pick/prospect, and I can't see how Carolina would say no or that Calgary would definitely beat Buffalo's adds with what they gave up in Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox. Put those two on Buffalo's roster and we're not talking about "what if we had Brassard, Caggiula, etc." I wasn't in the room for talks like that so I can only be so upset or talk trash on this board so much, right?? It's a waste of time and energy. I'd rather think about more trades like Montour...players that will be long-term additions taking major roles and responsibility. Splitting hairs over waiver-wire, unsigned UFA types is just not worth the time. They don't make enough difference for where this team is right now.