I think Botterill survives because he's level headed and calculated. I don't know if he's the top dog next season though, maybe someone above him comes in.
I mean, you can't discount the whole psychological element. Their feelings are a byproduct of a roster that wasn't going to win this year. Most people (sabres fans included) had this team back in the bottom 5 again, maybe just out of it, at the beginning of the season. People's expectations started to get warped by an anomaly of a rather small sample size (10 game win streak), and some got way ahead of themselves with where we would finish. As far as effort is concerned I'm not sure how you're judging that. I don't really question the team's effort at this point. They lost the games they really need to win, but they we're tough games that could have went either way imo. And then after those defeats they got messed up in the head and just weren't playing with the same confidence they had when they were still in it. They're young. Their brains haven't even finished developing yet. What did you expect? That they'd have the stalwart unshakeableness of a team full of vets? We have no vets, and the one that we do have everyone wants off of the roster because they are toast. I mean of you don't wanna look at the bigger picture now that's fine. But the kids will grow and we got a could crop of prospects that we know are gonna be good players in this league. One season is nothing. We've all watched like 20 seasons or more of hockey in our lives. The sabres will be good again one day. Prolly pretty soon. Idk what I'm saying (rambling maybe??), that's just how I feel about it
It's all in Skinner's control and has been from before the trade. If he leaves, certainly more details will come out.
Robert Thomas really is a hockey player. It took a while for the points to come, but the guy owns the puck, knows how and when to dish it, and has a very good motor. He's already solid in his own zone.
It's inexcusable. The media focused on bringing down O'Reilly for whatever reason and not on the terrible return
It's really the only time I questioned the Pegulas commitment to winning in Buffalo. I don't think the move was solely about money but it's possible.
Hahahaha that is what I'm saying. If we're incoherent how can it possibly hurt to watch them lose. dementia rules all"The Sabres will be good again one day."
Unfortunately, I want a Stanley Cup and thought that it was certainly going happen at least once in a 50 year period.
But, I've come to realize that I've been way too selfish and self centered in my expectations.
I've got to....... Ramble on..... says Robert Plant...........
... cap genius
I have some opinions on Jason Botterill....
First, Re-evaluating the Pominville, Scandella, 4th for Foligno, Ennis, 3rd.
This trade was universally viewed in a very positive light. Two years later, it's another blemish on Botts embarrassing resume.
This is a hindsight analysis. So let's look at what we are left with and what Minnesota is left with:
2 years later Buffalo has:
- a 4 million dollar dead weight contract in 2019-20 (Scandella)
- the 117th pick in the 2018 draft
2 years later Minnesota has:
- 2 more years of one of the leagues best defensive power forwards at a great price (Foligno 2 yrs left at 2.875)
- 1.1 million in 2019-20 dead cap space from the Ennis buyout
- the 63rd pick in the 2018 draft
After two years of being the worst team in the league, Pominville has born no value/fruit. Justin Bailey could've played all those minutes and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference.
But there is a lot from this trade that contributed to the awfulness of the last 2 years.
Marcus Foligno was replaced by Benoit Pouliot:
View attachment 208313
Tyler Ennis was replaced by Jacob Josefson
View attachment 208317
Botts downgraded the roster in almost every way possible the last 2 years... from the big screw up that shall not be named, all the way down to the smallest moves:
1. like giving away Carrier, and replacing him with Nolan:
View attachment 208319
There's been a lot of issue raised about the lack of depth Botts had to work with thanks to the drunk spending spree Murray went on. But the reality is that there was depth, and Botts mishandled it through multiple trades/moves.
2. WhyTF is there a condition in the Sheary/Hunwick trade that if we trade Hunwick we owe Pittsburgh another pick? I've never heard of such nonsense. First, we are taking on the cap dump for Pittsburgh, but if Sheary turns out to actually be worthy of acquiring (scores 20) we owe Pittsburgh MORE. Then if Hunwick somehow turns out not to be the garbage Pitt thought he was, then we have to pay them for this miracle? We are doing Pittsburgh all the favors, but if the deal works out in our favor in any way... we owe them more??? This guy is the worst trade negotiator in history.
3. The conditional 1st in the Montour deal is the same thing. WTF are you doing? First, you make this trade in the offseason when you know where these picks stand. The difference in value between the 20th overall pick and the 31 st overall pick... is actually significant, and for some reason he decided to leave it up to the hockey gods to decide on the value we are willing to pay for Montour??? If you absolutely have to get Montour in season, then the condition on the 1st going to Anaheim MUST be the later of the STL and SJ picks. There's no way you should include a condition where another team's performance controls the quality of the 1st you're paying.
4. Beaulieu for a 6th and Fedun for a 7th
Do we care about depth or not?
First, Botts screwed the pooch by acquiring Hunwick and forcing Nelson down everyone's throat. He gave away 2 defensemen who are playing important roles on playoff teams. Look, if we didn't downgrade across the board in all the previous examples... and then made one dumb move to give away a useful defensemen... then who cares. But this is what death by a thousand paper cuts looks like:
View attachment 208335
No, instead we got treated to another year of this horror show:
View attachment 208339
And seriously, a 6th? Beaulieu stepped right in to their top pair. They had injuries and they needed help and all you got was a 6th? Toronto went to WPG, and gave them a pending UFA 13-4th forward... and got Petan. An asset far more useful than a god damn 6th round pick. 8 months ago you didn't even know what to do with a 6th round pick.
5. Sure... the Skinner acquisition was kind of a good move. But without an extension what is it really? The gap between the SJ 1st we acquired for Kane, and the 2nd we paid for Skinner might be 5-10 spots in the draft. We know that Botts doesn't see a value difference in that range (see the Montour conditions), so really... if Skinner doesn't re-sign. We essentially spent a 3rd, 6th, and Pu to rent an additional year of Kane (in the form of Skinner).
6. And Lehner... holy cripes... the guy is going to win the Masterson and the Jennings. Botts gave him away. There were numerous opportunities to help him get right. He needed a wake up call. Maybe exposing him in the expansion draft would've done the trick. Maybe waiving him to Rochester. Botts did nothing, and gave away another useful asset.
7. The Reinhart bridge...
8. Scott Wilson... could've been Qualified at something like 660k. Botts feared arbitration (i assume), so instead of even qualifying Wilson, he gave him a 2 year deal for 1 million per. Lol.... this is our cap genius.
Am I rambling yet???
Yes. I said this was a hindsight thread. And in hindsight Botts has gotten almost everything wrong. And so far he's been rewarded with Dahlin for his failures. Let's hope we get rewarded one more time... and cut ties immediately before he messes up the next thing.
There's a lot of really really easy things to bag on Botts for (that 'other trade', hiring Housley, handling of prospects, etc). I think those alone are fireable offenses... but then when you dig down in to the rest of his moves, the ones that seemed ok... even good at the time... and realize they're almost univerally bad in hindsight, that's when you really have to ask whether you are ok with this guy making another coaching hire and getting a minimum of an additional 2-3 years because of it.
And now the question as to whether to proof read and edit... or just post....
post
I have some opinions on Jason Botterill....
First, Re-evaluating the Pominville, Scandella, 4th for Foligno, Ennis, 3rd.
This trade was universally viewed in a very positive light. Two years later, it's another blemish on Botts embarrassing resume.
This is a hindsight analysis. So let's look at what we are left with and what Minnesota is left with:
2 years later Buffalo has:
- a 4 million dollar dead weight contract in 2019-20 (Scandella)
- the 117th pick in the 2018 draft
2 years later Minnesota has:
- 2 more years of one of the leagues best defensive power forwards at a great price (Foligno 2 yrs left at 2.875)
- 1.1 million in 2019-20 dead cap space from the Ennis buyout
- the 63rd pick in the 2018 draft
After two years of being the worst team in the league, Pominville has born no value/fruit. Justin Bailey could've played all those minutes and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference.
But there is a lot from this trade that contributed to the awfulness of the last 2 years.
Marcus Foligno was replaced by Benoit Pouliot:
View attachment 208313
Tyler Ennis was replaced by Jacob Josefson
View attachment 208317
Botts downgraded the roster in almost every way possible the last 2 years... from the big screw up that shall not be named, all the way down to the smallest moves:
1. like giving away Carrier, and replacing him with Nolan:
View attachment 208319
There's been a lot of issue raised about the lack of depth Botts had to work with thanks to the drunk spending spree Murray went on. But the reality is that there was depth, and Botts mishandled it through multiple trades/moves.
2. WhyTF is there a condition in the Sheary/Hunwick trade that if we trade Hunwick we owe Pittsburgh another pick? I've never heard of such nonsense. First, we are taking on the cap dump for Pittsburgh, but if Sheary turns out to actually be worthy of acquiring (scores 20) we owe Pittsburgh MORE. Then if Hunwick somehow turns out not to be the garbage Pitt thought he was, then we have to pay them for this miracle? We are doing Pittsburgh all the favors, but if the deal works out in our favor in any way... we owe them more??? This guy is the worst trade negotiator in history.
3. The conditional 1st in the Montour deal is the same thing. WTF are you doing? First, you make this trade in the offseason when you know where these picks stand. The difference in value between the 20th overall pick and the 31 st overall pick... is actually significant, and for some reason he decided to leave it up to the hockey gods to decide on the value we are willing to pay for Montour??? If you absolutely have to get Montour in season, then the condition on the 1st going to Anaheim MUST be the later of the STL and SJ picks. There's no way you should include a condition where another team's performance controls the quality of the 1st you're paying.
4. Beaulieu for a 6th and Fedun for a 7th
Do we care about depth or not?
First, Botts screwed the pooch by acquiring Hunwick and forcing Nelson down everyone's throat. He gave away 2 defensemen who are playing important roles on playoff teams. Look, if we didn't downgrade across the board in all the previous examples... and then made one dumb move to give away a useful defensemen... then who cares. But this is what death by a thousand paper cuts looks like:
View attachment 208335
No, instead we got treated to another year of this horror show:
View attachment 208339
And seriously, a 6th? Beaulieu stepped right in to their top pair. They had injuries and they needed help and all you got was a 6th? Toronto went to WPG, and gave them a pending UFA 13-4th forward... and got Petan. An asset far more useful than a god damn 6th round pick. 8 months ago you didn't even know what to do with a 6th round pick.
5. Sure... the Skinner acquisition was kind of a good move. But without an extension what is it really? The gap between the SJ 1st we acquired for Kane, and the 2nd we paid for Skinner might be 5-10 spots in the draft. We know that Botts doesn't see a value difference in that range (see the Montour conditions), so really... if Skinner doesn't re-sign. We essentially spent a 3rd, 6th, and Pu to rent an additional year of Kane (in the form of Skinner).
6. And Lehner... holy cripes... the guy is going to win the Masterson and the Jennings. Botts gave him away. There were numerous opportunities to help him get right. He needed a wake up call. Maybe exposing him in the expansion draft would've done the trick. Maybe waiving him to Rochester. Botts did nothing, and gave away another useful asset.
7. The Reinhart bridge...
8. Scott Wilson... could've been Qualified at something like 660k. Botts feared arbitration (i assume), so instead of even qualifying Wilson, he gave him a 2 year deal for 1 million per. Lol.... this is our cap genius.
Am I rambling yet???
Yes. I said this was a hindsight thread. And in hindsight Botts has gotten almost everything wrong. And so far he's been rewarded with Dahlin for his failures. Let's hope we get rewarded one more time... and cut ties immediately before he messes up the next thing.
There's a lot of really really easy things to bag on Botts for (that 'other trade', hiring Housley, handling of prospects, etc). I think those alone are fireable offenses... but then when you dig down in to the rest of his moves, the ones that seemed ok... even good at the time... and realize they're almost univerally bad in hindsight, that's when you really have to ask whether you are ok with this guy making another coaching hire and getting a minimum of an additional 2-3 years because of it.
And now the question as to whether to proof read and edit... or just post....
post
