Jared Bednar Discussion

[cinchronicity]

The avs have taken the next step every year since Bednar got here. If they don’t make the finals this year there’s no way in hell Bednar should be fired.

not to mention this isn’t exactly a normal season.

each year the avs have improved while both leading and trailing after two. Each year their playoff performances have improved whilst also gaining valuable experience. There’s next to no reason why there should be fire bednar talk right now lol

What step was taken last year? Another Game 7 loss to a team we should have beaten in 5? Bednar's issue is that he is predictable, and thus susceptible to being outcoached on a game by game basis. The list of issues this season is the same as last season and the season before. For the record, these criticisms were levelled last year as well. Injuries and Covid merely masked his inability to coach within the 60 minutes of ice time.

 

[Pokecheque]

I’ll say it again: I’m still more than okay with Jared Bednar.

Ray Bennett, however...

 

[Moosehead1]

What step was taken last year? Another Game 7 loss to a team we should have beaten in 5? Bednar's issue is that he is predictable, and thus susceptible to being outcoached on a game by game basis. The list of issues this season is the same as last season and the season before. For the record, these criticisms were levelled last year as well. Injuries and Covid merely masked his inability to coach within the 60 minutes of ice time.

Should have beat when healthy*. That’s not a coaching problem.

 

[Pokecheque]

What step was taken last year? Another Game 7 loss to a team we should have beaten in 5? Bednar's issue is that he is predictable, and thus susceptible to being outcoached on a game by game basis. The list of issues this season is the same as last season and the season before. For the record, these criticisms were levelled last year as well. Injuries and Covid merely masked his inability to coach within the 60 minutes of ice time.

Dude. The team lost their starting goaltender, the backup ended up getting hurt and rendered completely ineffective, and the third string guy was a career minor leaguer who did the best he could. That’s not even counting the injuries that ravaged the lineup in that series, starting with EJ. And yet despite never getting the big save that entire series, they still came back from 3-1 to force a game 7 overtime. I don’t see how you blame him there.

 

[cinchronicity]

I really think it's misleading to keep going back to Bednar's record during his tenure that includes the Avs worst season in 25 years. At the very least we need to throw out this season for this discussion.

The most relevant season by far in this discussion is last year. It's the most recent, it's the best team he had, and it's a 70 game sample size. And last year, Bednar and the Avs were one of the best teams in the league at comebacks.

Why didn't we praise Bednar last year for being GREAT at adjusting and coming back in games? That would have been the fair thing to do if we're relying on stats to judge him in this area.

The 16 flukey game sample size from this year is meaningless in this discussion. They've only had 3 losses so far when trailing after 1 period. Only 4 losses when trailing first. The best teams in the league have 1 and 2 losses in each. Not a big difference.

We've also moved on to Bednar's record after two periods now, instead of his record trailing after 1 period, and after trailing first. Where Bednar was 4th in winning % when trailing first and 6th in winning % when trailing after 1 period last year.

They didn't have a good winning percentage last year when trailing after two, but they also had the 2nd fewest number of losses when trailing after two with 13. Vegas in comparison had 21 losses. Dallas had 19. Tampa had 15. Washington the team with the best winning % when trailing after two periods had 17 losses.

So I really don't think his record after 2 is a very strong point in this discussion either.

This is a man who has won championships with two different teams in two different leagues. You have to be at least competent at adjustments to be able to do that.

Or....you have a transcendent player who can take the team on his back for a month or so. Do not mistake winning with good coaching. There are dozens of examples of bad coaches riding the coat tails of a streaking player. The sign of a good coach is the ability to adjust if that shooting star dims.

 

[Moosehead1]

Or....you have a transcendent player who can take the team on his back for a month or so. Do not mistake winning with good coaching. There are dozens of examples of bad coaches riding the coat tails of a streaking player. The sign of a good coach is the ability to adjust if that shooting star dims.

Lol like kucherov? Or ovechkin? Or Crosby? Or Gretzky or Sakic or literally any other game changing player that contributes to the teams success.

 

[cinchronicity]

Dude. The team lost their starting goaltender, the backup ended up getting hurt and rendered completely ineffective, and the third string guy was a career minor leaguer who did the best he could. That’s not even counting the injuries that ravaged the lineup in that series, starting with EJ. And yet despite never getting the big save that entire series, they still came back from 3-1 to force a game 7 overtime. I don’t see how you blame him there.

I do not disagree with any of your points. That said, they are not the point I was making. Bednar is, and has been, predictable. The most predictable thing about this team is that Bednar will be predictable. Losing 2 goalies does not impact the ability to exit the DZone. Losing two goalies does not impact the PP efficiency. Losing two goalies does not lessen the importance of cycling the puck. Losing two goalies does not justify the 100% predictable PP O Zone entry. Those are all things which Bednar could control, even if 100% of the active roster was AHL players.

 

[Foppa2118]

Or....you have a transcendent player who can take the team on his back for a month or so. Do not mistake winning with good coaching. There are dozens of examples of bad coaches riding the coat tails of a streaking player. The sign of a good coach is the ability to adjust if that shooting star dims.

Are you just speaking generally, or are you suggesting that Bednar is riding MacKinnon's coat tails?

I think a big part of how MacKinnon became the player he is today, was Bednar's approach helping him to not get too up or down, play between the whistles, and his less emotional coaching style.

Nate's head was getting in his way before that because he was letting his hot head tendencies get the better of him, and he was putting too much pressure on himself to live up to his draft status.

You're also going to be hard pressed to find a championship team where the best players didn't carry the team. Or a coach that won a championship with his best players slumping.

You usually NEED your best players to be the best players to win championships.

 

[cinchronicity]

Should have beat when healthy*. That’s not a coaching problem.

Nope. Just 'should have beaten' period. The best way to avoid a Werner / Miska / Hutch from letting you down is to not put them in that position. Bednar simply has ZERO clue as to how one coaches against a team which is parking the bus. Even McNabb pointed out that Minny went into a 1-2-2 with 6 minutes to go, and that the Avs were going to have an issue. When insufferable homers like Moser and McNabb start pointing out issues, its time to figure out the issues.

 

[Moosehead1]

I do not disagree with any of your points. That said, they are not the point I was making. Bednar is, and has been, predictable. The most predictable thing about this team is that Bednar will be predictable. Losing 2 goalies does not impact the ability to exit the DZone. Losing two goalies does not impact the PP efficiency. Losing two goalies does not lessen the importance of cycling the puck. Losing two goalies does not justify the 100% predictable PP O Zone entry. Those are all things which Bednar could control, even if 100% of the active roster was AHL players.

You could argue any system with any team is “predictable”. You can’t argue with compatible numbers.

All the being beside the point, I don’t think bednar is in charge of special teams. If he is, let’s talk about how lights out the PK has been?

 

[Moosehead1]

Nope. Just 'should have beaten' period. The best way to avoid a Werner / Miska / Hutch from letting you down is to not put them in that position. Bednar simply has ZERO clue as to how one coaches against a team which is parking the bus. Even McNabb pointed out that Minny went into a 1-2-2 with 6 minutes to go, and that the Avs were going to have an issue. When insufferable homers like Moser and McNabb start pointing out issues, its time to figure out the issues.

How many teams win the cup with their backup, let alone their third stringer? A step further, how many series are won by a goalie that isn’t the starter?

Youre right - address the issues. How do the avs stay healthy??

So far francouz, varlamov and grubaur have all shown to have significant and lasting injuries every season. Varlamov has stayed healthy with NYI. Both were healthy before their tenure with the avs.

 

[Pokecheque]

I do not disagree with any of your points. That said, they are not the point I was making. Bednar is, and has been, predictable. The most predictable thing about this team is that Bednar will be predictable. Losing 2 goalies does not impact the ability to exit the DZone. Losing two goalies does not impact the PP efficiency. Losing two goalies does not lessen the importance of cycling the puck. Losing two goalies does not justify the 100% predictable PP O Zone entry. Those are all things which Bednar could control, even if 100% of the active roster was AHL players.

It absolutely does affect zone exits when goalies can’t secure pucks and limit rebounds. When a goalie settles things down and freezes pucks that makes a world of difference. When he can’t and the team has to scramble every time, not to mention go out of their way to block EVERYTHING because the guy between the pipes can’t be trusted you’re nuts if you don’t think that affects the team’s ability to push the play.

I’ll concede the power play has been a problem for a while. And that is indeed on Bednar and Bennett. But they were never going to get far with a third-string goaltender even if their power play was clicking.

 

[cinchronicity]

Are you just speaking generally, or are you suggesting that Bednar is riding MacKinnon's coat tails?

I think a big part of how MacKinnon became the player he is today, was Bednar's approach helping him to not get too up or down, play between the whistles, and his less emotional coaching style.

Nate's head was getting in his way before that because he was letting his hot head tendencies get the better of him, and he was putting too much pressure on himself to live up to his draft status.

You're also going to be hard pressed to find a championship team where the best players didn't carry the team. Or a coach that won a championship with his best players not performing up to par.

You usually NEED your best players to be the best players to win championships.

I'm speaking both generally, but also directly about Bednar too. I believe he is a good 'player's coach'. I think he is excellent at building the confidence of young players. This could be the reason he has had success in the minor leagues. I think he is able to help players reach potential, which is critical. That does not make him an effective nor quality head coach. That is why other sports have QB gurus, or pitching coaches. For decades virtually any hoops player over 6'10" went to Pete Newel to maximize their potential.

Someone on the bench has to make minute to minute decisions. That is the job of a head coach. The fact that Bednar is a good guru does not give him a pass on game management. The other teams have coaches who are making adjustments. He either needs to be better than he is, or get Sakic to find a bench coach who will make the calls.

For instance, Minny was essentially double-teaming Mac last night. He had a defender tied to his waist, and 95% of the time, a forward backchecking him all the way through his attempted shot. If Mac is being double teamed, that means somebody is open. Change the game plan and use Mac as a decoy.

Similarly, Landy gets moved to the third line - a move I don't mind being that he was just out for 2+ weeks. But Bednar chooses to replace him with Burakovsky - a sniper. That leaves nobody to do the dirty work in the crease. It also takes a wing of Kadri's line, so that he is playing with two new partners.

What about the 3rd defensive pair, who Bednar threw under the bus last night. When I saw that lineup all I could do is face palm. In what world do you put two guys with a total of 20 games NHL experience together? How was that ever going to work well? Do Bednar think his opposing coach was not going to notice, and hammer those two?

Do I have to expound on the simply stupid drop pass PP O Zone entry? Vegas sent two gunners one time in Tahoe. What happened? A goal. Bednar should have entries 1,2 and 3, and be able to signal which one according to the PK unit he is facing. But no, different day, same bad strategy.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Or....you have a transcendent player who can take the team on his back for a month or so. Do not mistake winning with good coaching. There are dozens of examples of bad coaches riding the coat tails of a streaking player. The sign of a good coach is the ability to adjust if that shooting star dims.

Is MacKinnon a transcendent player though?

 

[Moosehead1]

I'm speaking both generally, but also directly about Bednar too. I believe he is a good 'player's coach'. I think he is excellent at building the confidence of young players. This could be the reason he has had success in the minor leagues. I think he is able to help players reach potential, which is critical. That does not make him an effective nor quality head coach. That is why other sports have QB gurus, or pitching coaches. For decades virtually any hoops player over 6'10" went to Pete Newel to maximize their potential.

Someone on the bench has to make minute to minute decisions. That is the job of a head coach. The fact that Bednar is a good guru does not give him a pass on game management. The other teams have coaches who are making adjustments. He either needs to be better than he is, or get Sakic to find a bench coach who will make the calls.

For instance, Minny was essentially double-teaming Mac last night. He had a defender tied to his waist, and 95% of the time, a forward backchecking him all the way through his attempted shot. If Mac is being double teamed, that means somebody is open. Change the game plan and use Mac as a decoy.

Similarly, Landy gets moved to the third line - a move I don't mind being that he was just out for 2+ weeks. But Bednar chooses to replace him with Burakovsky - a sniper. That leaves nobody to do the dirty work in the crease. It also takes a wing of Kadri's line, so that he is playing with two new partners.

What about the 3rd defensive pair, who Bednar threw under the bus last night. When I saw that lineup all I could do is face palm. In what world do you put two guys with a total of 20 games NHL experience together? How was that ever going to work well? Do Bednar think his opposing coach was not going to notice, and hammer those two?

Do I have to expound on the simply stupid drop pass PP O Zone entry? Vegas sent two gunners one time in Tahoe. What happened? A goal. Bednar should have entries 1,2 and 3, and be able to signal which one according to the PK unit he is facing. But no, different day, same bad strategy.

The drop pass is atrocious, I hate it as much as you do it seems at the same time - the avs are not the only team that employs that strategy. Many successful teams do.

The coach isn’t the only individual responsible for making adjustments. Players like Mackinnon landeskog and makar are responsible for and do make their own adjustments. These dudes are the top 1% of the top 1%...

 

[Moosehead1]

Is MacKinnon a transcendent player though?

Yes. He was the best player in the world during the playoffs last year.

 

[Spleenless Wonder21]

Is MacKinnon a transcendent player though?

Inconsistently, which is frustrating.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Yes. He was the best player in the world during the playoffs last year.

Is one two round playoff enough to make him a transcendent player?

 

[Moosehead1]

Is one two round playoff enough to make him a transcendent player?

Absolutely - when you consider the rest of his resume

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm speaking both generally, but also directly about Bednar too. I believe he is a good 'player's coach'. I think he is excellent at building the confidence of young players. This could be the reason he has had success in the minor leagues. I think he is able to help players reach potential, which is critical. That does not make him an effective nor quality head coach. That is why other sports have QB gurus, or pitching coaches. For decades virtually any hoops player over 6'10" went to Pete Newel to maximize their potential.

Someone on the bench has to make minute to minute decisions. That is the job of a head coach. The fact that Bednar is a good guru does not give him a pass on game management. The other teams have coaches who are making adjustments. He either needs to be better than he is, or get Sakic to find a bench coach who will make the calls.

For instance, Minny was essentially double-teaming Mac last night. He had a defender tied to his waist, and 95% of the time, a forward backchecking him all the way through his attempted shot. If Mac is being double teamed, that means somebody is open. Change the game plan and use Mac as a decoy.

Similarly, Landy gets moved to the third line - a move I don't mind being that he was just out for 2+ weeks. But Bednar chooses to replace him with Burakovsky - a sniper. That leaves nobody to do the dirty work in the crease. It also takes a wing of Kadri's line, so that he is playing with two new partners.

What about the 3rd defensive pair, who Bednar threw under the bus last night. When I saw that lineup all I could do is face palm. In what world do you put two guys with a total of 20 games NHL experience together? How was that ever going to work well? Do Bednar think his opposing coach was not going to notice, and hammer those two?

Do I have to expound on the simply stupid drop pass PP O Zone entry? Vegas sent two gunners one time in Tahoe. What happened? A goal. Bednar should have entries 1,2 and 3, and be able to signal which one according to the PK unit he is facing. But no, different day, same bad strategy.

Ok, but we're back to the 'Bednar can't adjust' argument. Which is disproven by the fact he and the Avs were 4th in winning % when trailing first, and 6th in winning % when trailing after one period last year. And by the fact he won championships in two different leagues.

Also, they did start using MacKinnon as a decoy about halfway through last game. He stopped carrying the puck in the neutral and O zone, and started just playing like a sniper who forechecks. They've done this multiple times before too.

If one were so inclined, they could say all of the negative things said about Bednar in this thread, about any coach, on any team, in any given season. There are always stretches of poor play, questionable lineup choices, special teams problems, etc.

Scotty Bowman was perhaps the best coach ever, and everyone hated his lineup decisions, and coaching approach. But he won and that's what counts. And right now we're less than a third into the regular season, not at the end of the playoffs.

Bednar has won in two different leagues and he's helped turned this Avalanche team into a legit contender. It's too early to be placing so much blame on him IMO.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Is one two round playoff enough to make him a transcendent player?

Yeah I love Mack but he hasn't done anything yet to be considered a transcendent player to me. That's reserved for the Ovi's, Crosby's, and McDavid's.

 

[Pokecheque]

BTW, also not Bednar’s fault that the Avs simply could not figure out a way to address their depth issues up front in that series. Once injuries started there was no way to keep Compher and Jost from getting absolutely destroyed by the Stars.

 

[Moosehead1]

Yeah I love Mack but he hasn't done anything yet to be considered a transcendent player to me. That's reserved for the Ovi's, Crosby's, and McDavid's.

Ovechkin - 5 seasons with more than 90 points.
Crosby - 6 seasons with more than 90 points.
McDavid 4 seasons with more than 90 points.
Kucherov - 2 seasons with more than 90 points.
Sakic - 9 90+ point seasons (forgot how f***in good he was).
Forsberg - 4 90+ point seasons
Mackinnon - 3 90+ point seasons.

He’s right there dude

 

[CharlesPuck]

Ovechkin - 5 seasons with more than 90 points.
Crosby - 6 seasons with more than 90 points.
McDavid 4 seasons with more than 90 points.
Kucherov - 2 seasons with more than 90 points.
Sakic - 9 90+ point seasons (forgot how f***in good he was).
Forsberg - 4 90+ point seasons
Mackinnon - 3 90+ point seasons.

He’s right there dude

you love your arbitrary cherry picked stats. Lol

 

[Moosehead1]

you love your arbitrary cherry picked stats. Lol

What number would you choose? Macks best vs the best of the bests best seems pretty fair.

Edit: I’m glad you’re paying attention