Confirmed with Link: James Wisniewski and a 3rd to Anaheim for William Karlsson, Rene Bourque, and a 2nd

[Johansen2Foligno]

I would wait until the draft to see what we do with the 2nd. If we take a kid, then yeah I'd probably rather have Wiz, but if we move the pick to move up/another player then it would depend on that player.

If we use that pick on a unicorn, I would be so happy!! Could you imagine?

 

[EspenK]

I would wait until the draft to see what we do with the 2nd. If we take a kid, then yeah I'd probably rather have Wiz, but if we move the pick to move up/another player then it would depend on that player.

I probably worded my original question poorly but I was keeping the 2nd as a true rental fee for Wiz. They can have the 2 players back, we get Wiz and keep their 2nd.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I probably worded my original question poorly but I was keeping the 2nd as a true rental fee for Wiz. They can have the 2 players back, we get Wiz and keep their 2nd.

Done

 

[Xoggz22]

I'm still not sure how this deal shakes out for us, but it's bad for Anaheim. I don't know why they thought they needed Wiz when they already had Vatanen, Fowler, et. co. Of course he has a great shot, but that's only part of his value. For the Jackets what Wiz added was passing. Savard, JJ, and Conn can all score goals but I don't think any of them can pass like Wiz. But on Anaheim it's easy to see Wiz getting lost. He's just a slower version of Vatanen.

I think you and I will simply have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying he was a poor passer but I never found that to be one of his better traits. I didn't find Wiz's hockey IQ to be all that high. Again, good player and I liked him but I wasn't nearly as high on him as others on these boards. I'm still good with this deal. I wish him success and hope he can help Anaheim win some games.

 

[SuperGenius]

Excuse me, Mr. Positive Energy Everything is All Wonderful

The two teams that I watch are the CBJ and the MTL Canadiens. I've watched Bourque for years. He usually stunk with with the rare exception of the playoffs last season. Players often show signs of life right after a trade. I'll take my 3+ years of viewing him over an 8 game stretch. Google "Rene bourqe effort". I am hardly alone.

If no points in 13 games in the AHL for an alleged top prospect is something that you'd like to whitewash, then you are free to do so. I won't.

So, new HF posters, if you want to get with the "Super Genius" program, pay attention to very small sample sizes and ignore a player's more substantial body of work.

Hey "Genius", find me all the negatives I've written about Johansen, Foligno, Hartnell, Dubinski, JJ, Tyutin, Savard, Prout, Letestu, Dano, Bob and Connaughton.

Super lame post. Noman Vincent Pealesque rubbish.

I guess this kind of reply is easier than addressing the content of the post. Not really unexpected, I guess.

As to your request, you should understand that it's not really your specific opinion on anyone that matters to me. Your post simply struck a chord in that it perfectly outlined the silliness we all see on this forum on a daily basis. If you can't see how ridiculous it is to complain about low or no production with one guy and then find a way to dismiss production of another guy, then I can't help you. I mean, seriously, if you're going to dismiss production after a trade as 'dead cat bounce' and then also rap on a guy for not producing - what exactly does a player need to do to win your favor?

I don't give a **** what Bourque did in Montreal. This isn't Montreal. I also don't really care what Karlsson did in Springfield. The guy hadn't skated for weeks and played his first game without his own sticks. He also scored a goal and an assist in 3 games in the NHL. That matters a little more to me than whatever happens in the jungle.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I guess this kind of reply is easier than addressing the content of the post. Not really unexpected, I guess.

As to your request, you should understand that it's not really your specific opinion on anyone that matters to me. Your post simply struck a chord in that it perfectly outlined the silliness we all see on this forum on a daily basis. If you can't see how ridiculous it is to complain about low or no production with one guy and then find a way to dismiss production of another guy, then I can't help you. I mean, seriously, if you're going to dismiss production after a trade as 'dead cat bounce' and then also rap on a guy for not producing - what exactly does a player need to do to win your favor?

I don't give a **** what Bourque did in Montreal. This isn't Montreal. I also don't really care what Karlsson did in Springfield. The guy hadn't skated for weeks and played his first game without his own sticks. He also scored a goal and an assist in 3 games in the NHL. That matters a little more to me than whatever happens in the jungle.

Well, good for you.

You don't give a **** what a guy did for 4 years. You don't give a **** that he has a well earned reputation for disappearing for months at a time. By golly, he's on the CBJ now and everything is going to magically change! He scored four goals in only eight games! He's born again! He's a CBJ dad gum it and he's seen the light! Good luck with that. About the only thing that I might find encouraging for Bourque next season is that it's a contract year.

It's hard for me to be gung ho about a kid who's supposed to be a great prospect who registers goose eggs in a baker's dozen in the "A". He didn't have his own sticks for how many of those games? Yeah, he had a neutral zone pass which resulted in a goal and scored one in his 3 games here. Ok. Small sample sizes tend not to excite me. I hope this kid is as advertised. I'm not going to suggest that he gets flushed because of a gawd awful stretch in the minors. I'm acquainted well enough with the minors to know that some kids heads just aren't in the game when they get sent down. I'm still not going to completely dismiss his dismal performance in Springfield.

That is all. Pollyanna on if you must.

 

[NotWendell]

This will all sort itself out in training camp. Bourque will have to win a spot on the roster next September. Simple as that. And that won't be an easy task.

 

[stevo61]

This will all sort itself out in training camp. Bourque will have to win a spot on the roster next September. Simple as that. And that won't be an easy task.

Exactly. Everyone knows Bourque has the talent but it's always been his work ethic and desire brought into question. I forget who said it but someone said if there was a locker room that could make someone work this is it and I agree completely with that. If Bourque wants NHL dollars he's not really gonna get anymore chances after this you have to think

 

[orthosrgn2]

Well, good for you.

You don't give a **** what a guy did for 4 years. You don't give a **** that he has a well earned reputation for disappearing for months at a time. By golly, he's on the CBJ now and everything is going to magically change! He scored four goals in only eight games! He's born again! He's a CBJ dad gum it and he's seen the light! Good luck with that. About the only thing that I might find encouraging for Bourque next season is that it's a contract year.

It's hard for me to be gung ho about a kid who's supposed to be a great prospect who registers goose eggs in a baker's dozen in the "A". He didn't have his own sticks for how many of those games? Yeah, he had a neutral zone pass which resulted in a goal and scored one in his 3 games here. Ok. Small sample sizes tend not to excite me. I hope this kid is as advertised. I'm not going to suggest that he gets flushed because of a gawd awful stretch in the minors. I'm acquainted well enough with the minors to know that some kids heads just aren't in the game when they get sent down. I'm still not going to completely dismiss his dismal performance in Springfield.

That is all. Pollyanna on if you must.

You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion. I am of the ilk that we should give everyone the opportunity to prove themselves, independent of their previous history. Bourque did more than just mail in the end of this year. He was an agitator, a goal scorer and held a presence in front of the net. I cannot say it will continue, but I am damn sure going to give him a good look if I am the CBJ. Karlsson did better on the parent team than while he was in Springy. His age and credentials would make him one that I too would give a long look and some time to develop.

What is great to me is that this is the first year we have had a plethora of talent to mix and match. Time on ice will be determined by how they play and I believe HCTR and Jarmo will make good choices.

 

[EspenK]

This will all sort itself out in training camp. Bourque will have to win a spot on the roster next September. Simple as that. And that won't be an easy task.

And if he doesn't, then what? an extra million give or take down the drain. I still say buy him out or trade him. I'm with Cyclone on this. 4 years of so so to not so good play leads me to believe that not even "Jackets Goggles" can turn him into a player worth a spot on our roster.

 

[We Want Ten]

I still don't see how this trade makes us better. I also still feel like the return for Wiz was low.

 

[SuperGenius]

And if he doesn't, then what? an extra million give or take down the drain. I still say buy him out or trade him. I'm with Cyclone on this. 4 years of so so to not so good play leads me to believe that not even "Jackets Goggles" can turn him into a player worth a spot on our roster.

Why not wait and see how he does, though? If being fair is wearing 'jackets goggles' then I guess I'm guilty. These guys aren't robots. New situation, new system. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. I don't see why this needs to be determined now unless there's some kind of deadline I'm not aware of.

I bet the same folks who want to judge this guy immediately yell "SHOOT" on power plays.

There's nothing Pollyanna-ish about wanting to wait to see what a guy does in specific circumstances before judging him. Sure, he had issues in Montreal, but I don't care any more about what he did in Montreal than what Wiz does in Anaheim. He's here, and I'll wait to see what he does 'here' before evaluating him. So far, I think he's looked fine. It might not pan out with the CBJ, but at this point it seems weird to pretend what he's done didn't count - well, unless you're using it to justify a predetermined opinion. As we all know, players never change and perform the same with all players in all systems with all organizations from the beginning to the end of their careers.

The main issue I have with Cyclones' take is, and he has yet to address it, is why his performance over 8 games doesn't count but Karlsson's performance over 13 games (in the minors) does. It's so incredibly stupid it's hard to believe I'm asking a third time for clarification.

I still don't see how this trade makes us better. I also still feel like the return for Wiz was low.

Return was low, but it seems the Wiz trade was as much about moving Wiz as it was the return. For one reason or another, the org wanted him out. Whether it's cap space, performance or some unknown issue, we'll likely never know. It's a shame, because I liked Wiz and what he brought. Clearly the org did not or has other plans for the $$ and that roster spot.

 

[EspenK]

Why not wait and see how he does, though? If being fair is wearing 'jackets goggles' then I guess I'm guilty. These guys aren't robots. New situation, new system. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. I don't see why this needs to be determined now unless there's some kind of deadline I'm not aware of.

I don't see us re-signing him going forward and I think the team would be better with a guy like Rychel or Anderson gaining NHL experience. If we don't buy him out or trade him we're stuck with him if he reverts to form of his last 4 years. That's the "deadline" I see. The cap isn't really an issue here and neither is the money. A buyout saves $833k over 2 years. I'd prefer using that to offset the cost of re-signing Letestu. My guess is we'll get to see how he plays out. I just don't think that it is the best use of a spot and $833k.

 

[MMC]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but how has Karlsson played for you and what do you see him being in the future?

 

[Cowumbus]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but how has Karlsson played for you and what do you see him being in the future?

I think he becomes a 2nd/3rd line center probably a good 3C if I had to bet

Looked fine up here didn't stick out to much

 

[Sore Loser]

I think he becomes a 2nd/3rd line center probably a good 3C if I had to bet

Looked fine up here didn't stick out to much

I think this is pretty spot on. I know he didn't have a great stretch in Springfield, but when he was in the AHL, he was solid if unspectacular. He'll challenge for a spot at camp, no doubt.

 

[WannabeFinn]

From what I've seen out of Karlsson I don't expect him to become a 2C at all, especially in this organization. I'm always glad to be proven wrong in situations like these but I just can't see him surpassing all of the center depth ahead of him. Especially if we end up drafting a guy like Barzal. At this point I'm praying for a solid bottom 6 C, similar to a Letestu type player.

But as I said above, I'd love to be proven wrong and have him end up as a middle 6 or even top 6 center. Go Jackets

 

[major major]

And if he doesn't, then what? an extra million give or take down the drain. I still say buy him out or trade him. I'm with Cyclone on this. 4 years of so so to not so good play leads me to believe that not even "Jackets Goggles" can turn him into a player worth a spot on our roster.

Perhaps not, but I don't know if Bourque ever battled so much in an 8 game stint as he did with us. He just had his first child and next year is a contract year for him, so there's a decent chance he's a changed man. That's worth 833k in my book.

 

[NotWendell]

And if he doesn't, then what? an extra million give or take down the drain. I still say buy him out or trade him. I'm with Cyclone on this. 4 years of so so to not so good play leads me to believe that not even "Jackets Goggles" can turn him into a player worth a spot on our roster.

I don't see how it doesn't. Either he wins the job or he doesn't. Either he keeps the job or he doesn't. Competition will determine the winner.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but how has Karlsson played for you and what do you see him being in the future?

He was OK. He reminded me of a better skating Chaput.

Either a 3rd liner or career AHLer IMO. Doesn't play physical enough for a 4th line role, not offensive enough for a top 2 line role.

 

[WannabeFinn]

He was OK. He reminded me of a better skating Chaput.

Either a 3rd liner or career AHLer IMO. Doesn't play physical enough for a 4th line role, not offensive enough for a top 2 line role.

Mark Letestu says hey. Finishes the season somewhere between 16-20th on the team in hits every year with the CBJ. Surprisingly enough, he's also not offensive enough for a top 6 role. I know Letestu had a bit of a down year, but Karlsson was also a rookie who barely scraped 20 games. They still scored at a very similar rate (0.255 PPG for Letestu, 0.238 PPG for Karlsson).

If the kid is anywhere near Letestu in terms of the way he thinks the game then we've got a winner. It's been proven by Letestu you don't need to be overly physical on a 4th line. You can be just fine if you think the game well and skate and aren't severely undersized.

I wanted to look at their respective Hero charts out of curiosity but Karlsson hasn't been in the NHL long enough to warrant one, I guess. In case you were curious about Letestu it basically breaks down like this: He's an average 4th liner when it comes to getting ice time and his line generating offense. He's a 3rd liner when it comes to individual scoring per 60 minutes though, which indicates to me that he's definitely been the best player on his line over the past few seasons (duh). He's pretty great defensively of course, with 2nd liner numbers for suppressing shots against.

I'm real happy if he can be something close to that even if others would call him a disappointment

 

[JacketsDavid]

I still don't see how this trade makes us better. I also still feel like the return for Wiz was low.

My feeling as well. I think we needed to move a d-man (too many fairly high priced d-men, that were at best 2nd pairing guys). I just hoped we could get a 1st round pick out of him. Not a prospect, a flip of draft picks and a bad contract.

 

[WannabeFinn]

My feeling as well. I think we needed to move a d-man (too many fairly high priced d-men, that were at best 2nd pairing guys). I just hoped we could get a 1st round pick out of him. Not a prospect, a flip of draft picks and a bad contract.

We probably could've got a 1st but his NTC made it tough to find a trade partner who could offer something worthwhile and we kind of got Vanek'd from last TDL (waited too long to make a deal, likely panicked and took a lower offer just because time was running out and it was on the table)

 

[JacketsDavid]

We probably could've got a 1st but his NTC made it tough to find a trade partner who could offer something worthwhile and we kind of got Vanek'd from last TDL (waited too long to make a deal, likely panicked and took a lower offer just because time was running out and it was on the table)

Good point

 

[We Want Ten]

We probably could've got a 1st but his NTC made it tough to find a trade partner who could offer something worthwhile and we kind of got Vanek'd from last TDL (waited too long to make a deal, likely panicked and took a lower offer just because time was running out and it was on the table)

Possible for sure. I just feel like waiting until the off-season, or waiting until the next TDL would have been more beneficial. I still don't get the rush to make a move, or at least the move they did.