Value of: Jake Guentzel

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kings fans in this thread.

I'm actually shocked at how bad their evaluations of Guentzel are.

I really hope this thread isn't an accurate representative of the Kings' fanbase.

You guys are freaking out about two. literally two Kings fans. two. And ignoring the others altogether that have posted reasonably and inquired about value otherwise.

Maybe step back a little.

In any case I don't see the Kings mortgaging their future to add a late 20s piece at this stage of their rebuild no matter how good that player is.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Exactly. His production almost doubled with Sid. 5 points in 4 games vs. 8 in 11. It's even more pronounced when you look at goals.

I think you got Double Dioned in the head at some point. Imagine dying on this hill.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We're still calling Vilardi a "valuable piece"?

He had 1 point in 7 games this season as a 22 year old before being sent down to the minors

You know what Guentzel did during his age 22 season?

He lead the playoffs in goals with 13 in 25 games en route to helping the Penguins win the Cup

That "30 - 40 points winger on a good team" has 189 points over his last 192 games


It's fine if you'd rather keep Turcotte and Vilardi, but you don't need to embarrass yourself in order to justify it...

So you're fighting dishonest sample sizes with dishonest sample sizes? How valorous of you.

Vilardi has more value to the Kings than he will to anyone else right now, zero point in them selling low on him...if someone doesn't want to pay full possible value for him they can hang on till he busts and that would still be the smarter/safer move than giving him up for less than that. So in that sense, Vilardi is a 'valuable piece.'

 

[Kurrilino]

We're still calling Vilardi a "valuable piece"?

He had 1 point in 7 games this season as a 22 year old before being sent down to the minors

You know what Guentzel did during his age 22 season?

He lead the playoffs in goals with 13 in 25 games en route to helping the Penguins win the Cup

That "30 - 40 point winger on a good team" has 189 points over his last 192 games


It's fine if you'd rather keep Turcotte and Vilardi, but you don't need to embarrass yourself in order to justify it...

I strongly advice the Pens keep their All-Star winger.
He is not the right fit for our future core.

I also wonder why the Pens of all teams throw out their All-Star wingers.
Apparently, they have to many

 

[Double Dion]

I think you got Double Dioned in the head at some point. Imagine dying on this hill.

Obesity and a sedentary lifestyle will kill me. Knowing the reality of Jake Guentzel most definitely won't.

 

[Perennial]

So you're fighting dishonest sample sizes with dishonest sample sizes? How valorous of you.

Vilardi has more value to the Kings than he will to anyone else right now, zero point in them selling low on him...if someone doesn't want to pay full possible value for him they can hang on till he busts and that would still be the smarter/safer move than giving him up for less than that. So in that sense, Vilardi is a 'valuable piece.'

Enlighten me on the dishonest nature of the sample sizes I provided...

 

[Trade]

Jesus tiddy****** Christ,

Can you stop involving Kings players in every trade proposal?
The Kings are not giving up Turcotte and Vilardi for a 20 goal scorer on a offense only team
This dude would score like 8 goals per season with the Kings


Where you get all-star calibre from is far beyond me plus he is totally our of our desired age range.

Ice cold take.

This thread is hilarious.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Exactly. His production almost doubled with Sid. 5 points in 4 games vs. 8 in 11. It's even more pronounced when you look at goals.

Lol

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Nah. Most GMs are taking the nearly ppg winger in the NHL.

Not if they’re rebuilding

 

[apocalypse]

We're still calling Vilardi a "valuable piece"?

He had 1 point in 7 games this season as a 22 year old before being sent down to the minors

You know what Guentzel did during his age 22 season?

He lead the playoffs in goals with 13 in 25 games en route to helping the Penguins win the Cup

That "30 - 40 point winger on a good team" has 189 points over his last 192 games


It's fine if you'd rather keep Turcotte and Vilardi, but you don't need to embarrass yourself in order to justify it...

You have no idea what vilardi can become. He has massive potential. Turcotte is a heart and soul player who also happens to be skilled. You don't bet the farm for a winger who is suckling off sid and genos tit. He very may well be skilled but you just don't make that trade if you're la.

 

[Perennial]

You have no idea what vilardi can become. He has massive potential. Turcotte is a heart and soul player who also happens to be skilled. You don't bet the farm for a winger who is suckling off sid and genos tit. He very may well be skilled but you just don't make that trade if you're la.

Define "massive potential" please...

 

[apocalypse]

50 - 70 point potential.

 

[apocalypse]

Define "massive potential" please...

50 to 70 point potential.

 

[PuckMasterZero]

????

I get to 24.2 in average totally inflated by the 40 goal season.
Beside that, average doesn't matter to me at all

314 career games, 127 goals. 127/314= .40446. .40446 × 82 = 33.1656

Not including this season he has been in the league for 5 seasons. In his first season he only played 40 games because he was an ahl callup, in which he scored 16 in 40 for a 32.8 goal pace. Missed part of one covid shortened season due to a freak accident and played another shortened season due to covid. So he has only had the opportunity to play two full seasons thus far. In one he scored 22 goals and the next 40. In the two covid shortened seasons he paced for 37 goals per season.. where are you getting he is a 20 goal scored from? Did I mention playoffs yet? 26 in 51 for a 41.8 goal pace

 

[Perennial]

50 to 70 point potential.

So, your definition of "massive potential" is a .60 PPG average?

That wouldn't crack the top 150 this season...

 

[Kurrilino]

where are you getting he is a 20 goal scorer from?

From here

2016: 16 goals
2017: 22 goals
2018: 40 goals
2019: 20 goals
2020: 23 goals

It will be really hard to argue that he is not a ~20 goal scorer per season.
If you point out the exception of 40 goals, i point out the 16 goals

Anyways, this is a highly inflated 24.2 goal average per season
Considering he is centered by 2 generational talents in Crosby and Malkin, this is not impressive at all.
Anson Carter playing with the Sedins comes instantly to my mind

 

[Kurrilino]

So, your definition of "massive potential" is a .60 PPG average?

That wouldn't crack the top 150 this season...

70 points would be 0.85 PPG, just saying.
Not sure why you argue with him, Vilardi is not getting trade was mentioned now several times

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

From here

2016: 16 goals
2017: 22 goals
2018: 40 goals
2019: 20 goals
2020: 23 goals

It will be really hard to argue that he is not a ~20 goal scorer per season.
If you point out the exception of 40 goals, i point out the 16 goals

Actually, it's as easy as pointing out that you completely ignore games played:

2016: 16 goals in 40 games, a 32 goal pace
2019: 20 goals in 39 games, a 42 goal pace
2020: 23 goals in 56 games, a 34 goal pace

Guentzel also has the 6th highest G/GP of all LWs (who've played at least 100 games) since he joined the league:

NHL Stats

Quit while you're behind.

 

[PuckMasterZero]

From here

2016: 16 goals
2017: 22 goals
2018: 40 goals
2019: 20 goals
2020: 23 goals

It will be really hard to argue that he is not a ~20 goal scorer per season.
If you point out the exception of 40 goals, i point out the 16 goals

Anyways, this is a highly inflated 24.2 goal average per season
Considering he is centered by 2 generational talents in Crosby and Malkin, this is not impressive at all.
Anson Carter playing with the Sedins comes instantly to my mind

Its not 24 a season. Thats not how you calculate a players goals rate. Really disingenuous considering we just had two shortened seasons and he had one as a call up halfway through. I just showed you the math. keep conveniently ignoring how many games played in each season

 

[3074326]

From here

2016: 16 goals
2017: 22 goals
2018: 40 goals
2019: 20 goals
2020: 23 goals

It will be really hard to argue that he is not a ~20 goal scorer per season.
If you point out the exception of 40 goals, i point out the 16 goals

Anyways, this is a highly inflated 24.2 goal average per season
Considering he is centered by 2 generational talents in Crosby and Malkin, this is not impressive at all.
Anson Carter playing with the Sedins comes instantly to my mind

Do you always remove all context, or is debating disingenuously the norm?

 

[Kurrilino]

Actually, it's as easy as pointing out that you completely ignore games played:

2016: 16 goals in 40 games, a 32 goal pace
2019: 20 goals in 39 games, a 42 goal pace
2020: 23 goals in 56 games, a 34 goal pace

Guentzel also has the 6th highest G/GP of all LWs (who've played at least 100 games) since he joined the league:

NHL Stats

Quit while you're behind.

You must have missed the part where i said, i don't trade for pace or if's and when's
The winger i trade for scores 30+ goals per season.
By those standards, Guentzel is a 20 goal winger.
I am absolutely not interested in why he doesn't score more than 20 goals per season

 

[Kurrilino]

Do you always remove all context, or is debating disingenuously the norm?

The context is that i want a winger who scores 30+ goals per season regardless of any excuses

 

[Kurrilino]

Its not 24 a season. Thats not how you calculate a players goals rate. Really disingenuous considering we just had two shortened seasons and he had one as a call up halfway through. I just showed you the math. keep conveniently ignoring how many games played in each season

I do not care about any goal rate, i care about how many goals a players scores per season.
Guentzel could be on a constant 60 goal pace and i wouldn't care as long as he scores 20 goals

NHL teams are rated by what they archive in 82 games the last time i checked.
How many points they could archive or on what pace they were after 15 games is absolutely irrelevant

 

[Gurglesons]

I do not care about any goal rate, i care about how many goals a players scores per season.
Guentzel could be on a constant 60 goal pace and i wouldn't care as long as he scores 20 goals

NHL teams are rated by what they archive in 82 games the last time i checked.
How many points they could archive or on what pace they were after 15 games is absolutely irrelevant

Guentzel scored more goals than any rookie in NHL history in the playoffs on the way to a cup.

Over this season and last season 14 players have more goals than Guentzel.

Over this season and last season he'd be the top scoring player by goals and points on the Kings.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's absolutely bizarre to me when obviously clueless people on this site continue to double down on the stupid shit they say instead of just running off silently with their tail between their legs.

I don't even want to trade Guentzel and I don't particularly give a shit for what a fan of a garbage team thinks of him, but God damn, you'd think that people would realize when they're wrong and just give it up.