Value of: Jack Quinn, Dylan Cozens, Jordan Greenway

[Fogelhund]

I think Greenway will be traded for a mid round pick... like a 3rd or 4th, when they can't come to terms on an extension before hand.

Unless Cozens isn't happy, it doesn't make any sense to move him. He's the kind of player they want to build with, not move for futures or someone worse.

I don't see Quinn being moved either.

I'd consider moving Jokiharju and Samuelsson. I think it makes sense to bring in some experienced D men, to better mentor the skill guys, which I think has been one of the issues overall in the Buffalo players development.

Zucker should be up for grabs, unless he wants to extend at a discount to his current deal. I think Krebs needs a change of scenery, and his development hasn't gone well.

 

[Fogelhund]

For shits and giggles, let's pretend all NTC/NMCs are waived and it's made July 1st with an extension in place.

to ​	to ​
C - Dylan Cozens	D - Rasmus Andersson
D - Owen Power	C - Nazem Kadri
RW - Jack Quinn	LW/RW - Blake Coleman
C - Peyton Krebs	D - Daniil Miromanov

Andersson is the type of D, that I think Buffalo should consider adding. The other pieces, not so much. The young Buffalo D core could use an experienced quality NHL veteran to help guide them to reach their potentials. That's one area that Buffalo has really struggled, and to me it's clear that they don't have the right veteran players there to help out.

 

[CowbellConray]

1. Thats all they have done since drafting Eichel.
Bogo, Gionta, Legwand, Moulson
Franson, Okposo
Pouliot
Berglund, Hunwick, Hutton, Pominville, Sobotka
Frolik, Johansson, Simmonds
Eakin, Hall, Sheahan, Staal
Anderson, Pysyk
EJ
Zucker, Reimer

All theyve done is bring in old washed up recognizable names to try and fail to change the culture and maybe sell a couple jerseys.

2. If anything, that proves that you are ignoring logic/facts and taking emotion into it. Im bashing a couple fans here who refuse to change the pattern, not the whole fanbase. Facts are taxes, weather, econimics, etc which draw NHL players elsewhere.

3. I'd Sharks it for a few years and hope to go down the Hawks, Pens, Oilers route.

4. See 2.

Moulson was prior to Eichel. Pouliot, Sobotka, hunwick, eakin, Sheehan, legwand, Staal, Berglund, frolik were all either worse than Zucker by a clear margin, didn’t want to play here, or were way past their best and were about to retire. Hall signed and then didn’t give any effort on the team. Bogo, Okposo, Pominville and Hutton were a part of the only core that I felt was decently put together along with RoR, however Bogo, RoR, and Eichel along with Kane made the locker room an ego room.

There is a difference between signing guys to take up roster spots and guys actually leading the youngsters. Zucker actually does the later.

Still not specifics on actual deals. The only proposal you offered to me was a bad Colorado deal to sell low on Byram and Cozens with no actual upgrade. So I question the ability to “easily” address this teams situation

 

[benfranklin]

Moulson was prior to Eichel. Pouliot, Sobotka, hunwick, eakin, Sheehan, legwand, Staal, Berglund, frolik were all either worse than Zucker by a clear margin, didn’t want to play here, or were way past their best and were about to retire. Hall signed and then didn’t give any effort on the team. Bogo, Okposo, Pominville and Hutton were a part of the only core that I felt was decently put together along with RoR, however Bogo, RoR, and Eichel along with Kane made the locker room an ego room.

There is a difference between signing guys to take up roster spots and guys actually leading the youngsters. Zucker actually does the later.

Still not specifics on actual deals. The only proposal you offered to me was a bad Colorado deal to sell low on Byram and Cozens with no actual upgrade. So I question the ability to “easily” address this teams situation

I have a history of too many proposals and options while ripping nearly every move theyve made.

I honestly think this roster is pathetic and borderline AHL quality. I dont know how you fix it outside of 4 years straight of top 5 picks and hopefully one holy crap one like Cellebrini instead of Power. Obviously there is luck in timing, so crap.

Cozens - gone
Thompson - gone
Tuch - gona
Greenway - gone
Power - gone

Sign Byram long term and start over. Yes, its doing it again and in a lot of fans opinions, this is the third time, but is what it is.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

I have a history of too many proposals and options while ripping nearly every move theyve made.

I honestly think this roster is pathetic and borderline AHL quality. I dont know how you fix it outside of 4 years straight of top 5 picks and hopefully one holy crap one like Cellebrini instead of Power. Obviously there is luck in timing, so crap.

Cozens - gone
Thompson - gone
Tuch - gona
Greenway - gone
Power - gone

Sign Byram long term and start over. Yes, its doing it again and in a lot of fans opinions, this is the third time, but is what it is.

You might want to stick to inventing electricity.

 

[benfranklin]

You might want to stick to inventing electricity.

lol so what is your plan? Meh moves and hope to magically sneak into the top 8 and go on a cinderella run?

 

[CowbellConray]

I have a history of too many proposals and options while ripping nearly every move theyve made.

I honestly think this roster is pathetic and borderline AHL quality. I dont know how you fix it outside of 4 years straight of top 5 picks and hopefully one holy crap one like Cellebrini instead of Power. Obviously there is luck in timing, so crap.

Cozens - gone
Thompson - gone
Tuch - gona
Greenway - gone
Power - gone

Sign Byram long term and start over. Yes, its doing it again and in a lot of fans opinions, this is the third time, but is what it is.

You are the one saying it’s easy to tear down, but can’t pull ANY specific moves or roster constructions to make it work…. Just “get rid of everyone and hope”. That’ll do it!

I also love how you want to get rid of our two best ES drivers in Thompson and Tuch. Especially Thompson, who is signed to a sweetheart deal. My plan would be to insulate them, with a risk reward option like EP. But no, let’s sell and Callum Ritchie will lead the team to the cup!

 

[BowieSabresFan]

lol so what is your plan? Meh moves and hope to magically sneak into the top 8 and go on a cinderella run?

Well, one option is the post above this from Cowbell.

There's a pretty decent amount of talent on this team, and it's certainly well-above AHL quality. I do hope you were using hyperbole there.

The plan should be to fill in the roster holes that are obvious to most. In other words, another quality 1/2 center, and a top 4 defensive dman. It definitely shouldn't be to get rid of players like Thompson or Tuch.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I think Greenway will be traded for a mid round pick... like a 3rd or 4th, when they can't come to terms on an extension before hand.

Unless Cozens isn't happy, it doesn't make any sense to move him. He's the kind of player they want to build with, not move for futures or someone worse.

I don't see Quinn being moved either.

I'd consider moving Jokiharju and Samuelsson. I think it makes sense to bring in some experienced D men, to better mentor the skill guys, which I think has been one of the issues overall in the Buffalo players development.

Zucker should be up for grabs, unless he wants to extend at a discount to his current deal. I think Krebs needs a change of scenery, and his development hasn't gone well.

Greenway should return at least a 2nd if he’s not interested in re-signing. He’s the type of player every single playoff team wants to add at the deadline. There will be plenty of bidders to drive up his acquisition cost.

 

[benfranklin]

You are the one saying it’s easy to tear down, but can’t pull ANY specific moves or roster constructions to make it work…. Just “get rid of everyone and hope”. That’ll do it!

I also love how you want to get rid of our two best ES drivers in Thompson and Tuch. Especially Thompson, who is signed to a sweetheart deal. My plan would be to insulate them, with a risk reward option like EP. But no, let’s sell and Callum Ritchie will lead the team to the cup!

Thompson is exactly what is wrong with this entire roster. Not him specifically, obviously, but he was signed to a 7x$7.1M contract after one 68 point season. Adams literally is rolling the dice on every deal overpaying and hoping they all pan out. That is a recipe for overspending and obviously eventual bad contracts.

I dont have nor want time to look for specific proposals, but here are generic ones then fill in the blanks from whatever team. Its a sellers market this year, so sell!

Thompson - By far the most valuable asset.
Power - Contract hurts, but should still get a decent bounty from someone for the 1OA tag on him.
Cozens - Contract hurts, but should still get a decent bounty from someone
Tuch - Sabres will be dumb and give him 5x$6M or something and then in three years will be wishing he was gone.

All of the above players should get you some very high end near holy crap prospects and multiple 1st-2nd round picks on top.

Greenway - picks
Zucker - picks
Joker - picks

Benson - Keep
Quinn - Keep
Peterka - Keep
Byram - Keep
UPL - Keep

A lot of these should be just starting their ELC or have more years left and are forced to pay them prematurely, but Sabres are dumb per usual thinking theyre good before they actually are and boom lottery team again.

Sign a bunch of Zucker type players and give the entire Amerks team their 9 games rotating in and out, suck for 3 years, going ham at the draft and hope. Rantanen and Marner arent signing here even if you offer $15M per so cant depend on free agency.

 

[Fogelhund]

Greenway should return at least a 2nd if he’s not interested in re-signing. He’s the type of player every single playoff team wants to add at the deadline. There will be plenty of bidders to drive up his acquisition cost.

When was the last time someone with 8 points on the season got at least a 2nd?

 

[tsujimoto74]

When was the last time someone with 8 points on the season got at least a 2nd?

Lame bad faith argument since Greenway has missed a large chunk of the season injured, but you probably know that. Not sure why I’m even responding to someone who doesn’t seem to be interested in having a reasoned conversation, but teams pay 2nds for good 3rd line grinders virtually every single year.

 

[CowbellConray]

Thompson is exactly what is wrong with this entire roster. Not him specifically, obviously, but he was signed to a 7x$7.1M contract after one 68 point season. Adams literally is rolling the dice on every deal overpaying and hoping they all pan out. That is a recipe for overspending and obviously eventual bad contracts. - Adams has had issues with contracts, but he has also hit on good deals. Thompson hit, Dahlin hit, UPL hit, Cozens didnt, Sammy didnt, Power is TBD. So he hits at 50%. Not the worst situation. Their larger issue is the lack of support for these young guys, which I've stated before.

I dont have nor want time to look for specific proposals, but here are generic ones then fill in the blanks from whatever team. Its a sellers market this year, so sell! - Nice cop out. No reference to any specific trades, players to target, deals to make happen. Just "SELL EVERYONE and itll all work out!". Terrible mentality

Thompson - By far the most valuable asset. - Insane to trade a top line player signed at 7M and prime aged
Power - Contract hurts, but should still get a decent bounty from someone for the 1OA tag on him. - For the right deal I could see it.
Cozens - Contract hurts, but should still get a decent bounty from someone - I've suggested packaging him for EP
Tuch - Sabres will be dumb and give him 5x$6M or something and then in three years will be wishing he was gone. - I'd kill for Tuch signed 5 years at $6M. That's a great deal

All of the above players should get you some very high end near holy crap prospects and multiple 1st-2nd round picks on top. - Which prospects? Are they NHL ready? Do they fit into the lineup this year?

Greenway - picks
Zucker - picks
Joker - picks

Benson - Keep
Quinn - Keep
Peterka - Keep
Byram - Keep - But your first post was the Sabres trading him away....
UPL - Keep

A lot of these should be just starting their ELC or have more years left and are forced to pay them prematurely, but Sabres are dumb per usual thinking theyre good before they actually are and boom lottery team again. - Who? Quinn won rookie of the year in the AHL and was 100% ready for the league before hurting his ankle, and JJP has been a bright spot and totally worth the time he has spent in the league. Benson you could have put back, but his rookie year was VERY solid by all metrics and was a clear 3rd line player last season...

Sign a bunch of Zucker type players and give the entire Amerks team their 9 games rotating in and out, suck for 3 years, going ham at the draft and hope. Rantanen and Marner arent signing here even if you offer $15M per so cant depend on free agency. - Nothing like saying "let's hope at the draft" but then also bash Adams for "hoping" on contracts he hands out. I mean it's coming out of both ends from you right now.

Added my responses in bold. You are contradicting yourself all over the place. At the end of the day, this Sabres organization will not tear everything down by trading Thompson/Tuch/Power/Byram/Etc. They feel they have pieces of a core (Tuch, Thompson, Dahlin), and are working to add to it. I could see maybe Cozens dealt for younger players, but I dont really think it will happen. Power maybe in the offseason, but again, I dont really see it happening. I think they look to add a top 4 D if they can, and maybe a middle six forward by trading Quinn for change of scenery swap.

 

[Fogelhund]

Lame bad faith argument since Greenway has missed a large chunk of the season injured, but you probably know that. Not sure why I’m even responding to someone who doesn’t seem to be interested in having a reasoned conversation, but teams pay 2nds for good 3rd line grinders virtually every single year.

It's not intended as a bad faith argument.... I mean, he's missed a lot of games, that much is for sure, and that should factor into value IMO. Happy to circle back once he's moved, to see what he actually got.

 

[Beerz]

It's not intended as a bad faith argument.... I mean, he's missed a lot of games, that much is for sure, and that should factor into value IMO. Happy to circle back once he's moved, to see what he actually got.

I wouldn't give a 2nd for him in most normal years of his... but this is a contract year and he has been pretty motivated and has been very good all over the ice. I don't think it is a stretch to get a 2nd if teams have been actually watching him when he has been on the ice

 

[Archie Lee]

When was the last time someone with 8 points on the season got at least a 2nd?

Last year at the deadline, Brandon Duhaime returned a 3rd. He had 8 points in 63 games at the time. His career high was 17 in 80.

I realize that is not a 2nd. A 3rd might be more realistic. But Greenway has had 5 seasons with more than 20 points and one over 30. I think he may be more highly regarded than Duhaime. In my view, Duhaime is a 4th line player and Greenway a 3rd line player. So, a 2nd isn’t crazy in my view.

 

[Fogelhund]

What do people think Zucker, Krebs or Jokiharju would end up returning?

 

[PatrickMcC]

What, from Ottawa, would it take to get Peterka