Speculation: Jack Eichel cont'd

[57special]

Of course you don't get it, you have none of the pertinent info. The reason you or none of us understand is because we have like 5% of the information.

I literally haven't even seen confirmation that a single 1st round pick has even been offered. What if the highest bid so far is three 2nd rounders? It would make a lot more sense to everyone in that case.

Agreed. My point is that i don't think that they are going to get offered appreciably more the longer this goes on. Logic would say that he will be worth less.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Agreed. My point is that i don't think that they are going to get offered appreciably more the longer this goes on. Logic would say that he will be worth less.

If the offers have been garbage from the outset (which very much seems to be the case), they don't lose anything by waiting. Crap 6 months ago and crap 6 months from now is still crap.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Agreed. My point is that i don't think that they are going to get offered appreciably more the longer this goes on. Logic would say that he will be worth less.

That's what I would think too. But if only 5 teams are comfortable with the ADR surgery now, and only one of two can even fit him under the cap, that's worse than most NMCs, so the impending NMC isn't really impacting value like it usually would.

I think Buffalo's play is to keep the line in the water and hope someone gets desperate and bites. I can't imagine they'd want to wait forever though...eventually you have to accept something if a semi-reasonable offer comes your way.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Sensible post, but I would say that teams do get medical decisions wrong . Assuming that the Sabres have some expertise in the medical field that no one else does is flat out wrong. They do not employ the best doctors in the world, country, or even the state, at the best of times. Sabres have been poorly run in the past few years making bad hires, and cutting jobs in all sorts of areas. Why do you assume that they would make the best possible medical decisions, and would have an unmatched expertise ?

Kind of far fetched, no?

lmao the Sabres have the same doctors as the Bills, one of the best run teams in football. If we're pretending the quality of the team has anything to do with the quality of the team's doctors, your argument kind of trips on its own feet and lands flat on its face there.

 

[57special]

If the offers have been garbage from the outset (which very much seems to be the case), they don't lose anything by waiting. Crap 6 months ago and crap 6 months from now is still crap.

Well, it will actually be about one year later, if they insist on fusion. That's one year of him sitting around getting 10M(yes, there is insurance, but your premiums go up the more you use it, just like all insurance), losing one more year of his prime, and being one more year away from being relevant as a hockey player. How is that going to make teams want to pay more?

 

[tsujimoto74]

Well, it will actually be about one year later, if they insist on fusion. That's one year of him sitting around getting 10M(yes, there is insurance, but your premiums go up the more you use it, just like all insurance), losing one more year of his prime, and being one more year away from being relevant as a hockey player. How is that going to make teams want to pay more?

Again, how does that matter to the Sabres? Garbage now and garbage later is still garbage. What good does having it sooner do?

If the Sabres wait, either the offers get better (win), or they don't (no appreciable loss).

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Well, it will actually be about one year later, if they insist on fusion. That's one year of him sitting around getting 10M(yes, there is insurance, but your premiums go up the more you use it, just like all insurance), losing one more year of his prime, and being one more year away from being relevant as a hockey player. How is that going to make teams want to pay more?

One word: Desperation

 

[GuerinUp]

Well, it will actually be about one year later, if they insist on fusion. That's one year of him sitting around getting 10M(yes, there is insurance, but your premiums go up the more you use it, just like all insurance), losing one more year of his prime, and being one more year away from being relevant as a hockey player. How is that going to make teams want to pay more?

its also one less year under contract

 

[57special]

lmao the Sabres have the same doctors as the Bills, one of the best run teams in football. If we're pretending the quality of the team has anything to do with the quality of the team's doctors, your argument kind of trips on its own feet there.

Prusnack works for the Broncos, among many others. He is a Harvard and Columbia trained Neurosurgeon. If you know anything about Medicine, Neurosurgeons tend to be the best and the brightest.

Do you really want to convince us that the Sabres have been one of the best run teams in the NHL the past ten years?

 

[57special]

its also one less year under contract

"losing one more year of his prime"

 

[tsujimoto74]

Prusnack works for the Broncos, among many others. He is a Harvard and Columbia trained Neurosurgeon. If you know anything about Medicine, Neurosurgeons tend to be the best and the brightest.

Do you really want to convince us that the Sabres have been one of the best run teams in the NHL the past ten years?

And the Sabres spinal specialist is a leading researcher in ADR surgery. And, again, the Sabres and Bills use the same doctors. The Bills are a much better than the Broncos, therefore--by your "logic"--the Bills doctors are much better than the Bronos doctors.

Again, your argument is tripping on its own feet and falling flat on its face. No amount of straw men or emojis is gonna change that.

 

[GuerinUp]

"losing one more year of his prime"

well ya but those two arent necessarily both negatives.

Yes losing a year of a players prime is a negative,

But not having to pay 10mil for a season isnt necessarily. Brings him a year closer to FA that the acquiring team doesnt have to pay and gets them closer to potentially negotiating new terms that could be less money.

 

[Boxscore]

Putting on my shoes and pretending to be a Sabres fan. Here are the deals I'd prefer in order...

1. Eichel to Los Angeles for Valardi, Kaliyev, a 2nd and 3rd.

2. Eichel to San Jose Sharks for Eklund, Labanc, a 1st and 3rd.

3. Eichel to Colorado for Newhook, Girard, a 1st and 2nd.

4. Eichel to Vegas for Krebs, Dadonov, Whitecloud and a 1st.

 

[Fjordy]

Sensible post, but I would say that teams do get medical decisions wrong . Assuming that the Sabres have some expertise in the medical field that no one else does is flat out wrong. They do not employ the best doctors in the world, country, or even the state, at the best of times. Sabres have been poorly run in the past few years making bad hires, and cutting jobs in all sorts of areas. Why do you assume that they would make the best possible medical decisions, and would have an unmatched expertise ?

Kind of far fetched, no?

Sabres/Bills have a physician who is very familiar with the ADR procedure and did not recommend it for Jack. Jack's doctor who wants ADR mentioned it and said he understands why Sabres doesn't want to take that risk.

 

[57special]

And the Sabres spinal specialist is a leading researcher in ADR surgery. And, again, the Sabres and Bills use the same doctors. The Bills are a much better than the Broncos, therefore--by your "logic"--the Bills doctors are much better than the Bronos doctors.

Again, your argument is tripping on its own feet and falling flat on its face. No amount of straw men or emojis is gonna change that.

You guys keep saying that, but it has been debunked, or at the very least you are stretching the definition of "leading researcher". ADR was developed in Europe in the mid 80's. A little light reading(compared to medical journal articles, which are pretty dense for laypeople), should you wish to find out more about ADR. Addressing Misinformation for Artificial Disc Replacement Surgery - Spine Surgery

 

[57special]

Sabres/Bills have a physician who is very familiar with the ADR procedure and did not recommend it for Jack. Jack's doctor who wants ADR mentioned it and said he understands why Sabres doesn't want to take that risk.

I wonder why he did not recommend it. Has he been quoted on that directly, or has that only been speculation?

Again, though, I keep coming back to the point of why the Sabres give a crap, and are making a an issue of this? Any issues from the surgery are likely to happen way down the road(years) when he will be long gone from the team. Most things that I have read say that immediate complications are more likely in Fusion, as it is a more invasive surgery, painful, and involves regrowth of bone.

 

[Fjordy]

I wonder why he did not recommend it. Has he been quoted on that directly, or has that only been speculation?

Again, though, I keep coming back to the point of why the Sabres give a crap, and are making a an issue of this? Any issues from the surgery are likely to happen way down the road(years) when he will be long gone from the team. Most things that I have read say that immediate complications are more likely in Fusion, as it is a more invasive surgery, painful, and involves regrowth of bone.

It was in the summer, it seems he was not quoted, but Jack's doctor mentioned it.

I do not know what is the reason, we simply do not have information. We can only guess why this is happening. Insurance? Pegulas Revenge? Well, or because the doctors did not recommend this operation. Probably there are some pitfalls that we do not know about.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Sensible post, but I would say that teams do get medical decisions wrong . Assuming that the Sabres have some expertise in the medical field that no one else does is flat out wrong. They do not employ the best doctors in the world, country, or even the state, at the best of times. Sabres have been poorly run in the past few years making bad hires, and cutting jobs in all sorts of areas. Why do you assume that they would make the best possible medical decisions, and would have an unmatched expertise ?

Kind of far fetched, no?

why are you assuming what I’m assuming?

 

[is the answer jesus]

Sensible post, but I would say that teams do get medical decisions wrong . Assuming that the Sabres have some expertise in the medical field that no one else does is flat out wrong. They do not employ the best doctors in the world, country, or even the state, at the best of times. Sabres have been poorly run in the past few years making bad hires, and cutting jobs in all sorts of areas. Why do you assume that they would make the best possible medical decisions, and would have an unmatched expertise ?

Kind of far fetched, no?

The Sabres have undoubtedly had misstep after misstep the last decade +. That said you are way off base if you like look at the Sabres doctor in this particular case in Dr Cappuccino and make some sort of claim that he's not very well respected and one of the best in his field. He split his medical training between the University at Buffalo and John's Hopkins where he studied speciality spine surgery. He performed an experimental hypothermia procedure on Kevyn Everett that very likely had a hand in him walking again. He literally works with other doctors in developing artifical disc replacements.
We've also heard that Eichel has had 2nd opinions from doctors that agree with the Sabres doctor. Are we to believe those doctors aren't any good at their jobs?

 

[keppel146]

Putting on my shoes and pretending to be a Sabres fan. Here are the deals I'd prefer in order...

1. Eichel to Los Angeles for Valardi, Kaliyev, a 2nd and 3rd.

2. Eichel to San Jose Sharks for Eklund, Labanc, a 1st and 3rd.

3. Eichel to Colorado for Newhook, Girard, a 1st and 2nd.

4. Eichel to Vegas for Krebs, Dadonov, Whitecloud and a 1st.

Option one is clearly not the best.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Prusnack works for the Broncos, among many others. He is a Harvard and Columbia trained Neurosurgeon. If you know anything about Medicine, Neurosurgeons tend to be the best and the brightest.

Do you really want to convince us that the Sabres have been one of the best run teams in the NHL the past ten years?

Lol. Cause... Brains. Right?

Thank god we have someone here who knows something about something.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Putting on my shoes and pretending to be a Sabres fan. Here are the deals I'd prefer in order...

1. Eichel to Los Angeles for Valardi, Kaliyev, a 2nd and 3rd.

2. Eichel to San Jose Sharks for Eklund, Labanc, a 1st and 3rd.

3. Eichel to Colorado for Newhook, Girard, a 1st and 2nd.

4. Eichel to Vegas for Krebs, Dadonov, Whitecloud and a 1st.

You forgot anaheim, i also think a lot of these moves will end up being 3 team deals.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Option one is clearly not the best.

Depends on how you feel about vilardi tbh... i think hes going to be a top player from his draft year.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Putting on my shoes and pretending to be a Sabres fan. Here are the deals I'd prefer in order...

1. Eichel to Los Angeles for Valardi, Kaliyev, a 2nd and 3rd.

2. Eichel to San Jose Sharks for Eklund, Labanc, a 1st and 3rd.

3. Eichel to Colorado for Newhook, Girard, a 1st and 2nd.

4. Eichel to Vegas for Krebs, Dadonov, Whitecloud and a 1st.

From a Sharks perspective I'd rather hold onto those assets and move forward with them. I wouldn't do that trade if I'm Colorado either. Idk why you chose the Kings package as the one not to include a 1st either.

 

[EichHart]

Putting on my shoes and pretending to be a Sabres fan. Here are the deals I'd prefer in order...

1. Eichel to Los Angeles for Valardi, Kaliyev, a 2nd and 3rd.

2. Eichel to San Jose Sharks for Eklund, Labanc, a 1st and 3rd.

3. Eichel to Colorado for Newhook, Girard, a 1st and 2nd.

4. Eichel to Vegas for Krebs, Dadonov, Whitecloud and a 1st.

I don't think the Sabres are getting those type of offers. If they were I think he's already gone. Teams are really worried about his surgery.