Speculation: Jack Eichel cont'd

[tsujimoto74]

can we just start a petition to get this overwith? get enough people to sign and buffalo lets him get the surgery then trade him after woohoo!!

Yes, I'm sure if a bunch of nobodies from the internet sign a petition, the Sabres doctors will relent in their medical opinion

 

[Djp]

The default surgery if ADA fails is fusion, so what exactly is the risk to getting ADR first?

not necessarily. If you do one you can’t do the other. You do ADR and he gets re injured his career is likely over.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

lol wut

the entire situation is just getting far too lengthy. with cancel culture, could get sabres fan to sign a petition of some sorts stating "let jack get his surgery or we stop buying tickets" or something of that nature. allow a few home games to go without ticket sails and maybe they listen? just speculating out of boredom with this all.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Yes, I'm sure if a bunch of nobodies from the internet sign a petition, the Sabres doctors will relent in their medical opinion

lol, not so much going that direction but yes that obviously is not how it would work.

 

[Fatass]

not necessarily. If you do one you can’t do the other. You do ADR and he gets re injured his career is likely over.

Get fusion, and the same thing could happen.
We could argue in circles about the surgeries. What we do know is several interested teams are supportive of ADR for Jack. Why are they fine, but the Sabres are not?

 

[Djp]

Get fusion, and the same thing could happen.
We could argue in circles about the surgeries. What we do know is several interested teams are supportive of ADR for Jack. Why are they fine, but the Sabres are not?

not the case.

fusion can handle the physical stress that ADR can not.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

the entire situation is just getting far too lengthy. with cancel culture, could get sabres fan to sign a petition of some sorts stating "let jack get his surgery or we stop buying tickets" or something of that nature. allow a few home games to go without ticket sails and maybe they listen? just speculating out of boredom with this all.

Lol. I always love seeing people try to 'change things' by creating a silly petition that goes nowhere.

Sure! Medical professionals will change their stance by seeing 1,000 people bitch and moan about Eichel and how he is 'treated'

 

[bernmeister]

It is likely the insurance issue.

If the procedure would invalidate the insurance policy, the Sabres would could be on the hook for an extra 32 million of Eichels contract if he never plays again. (It would amount to 50 million vs 17.5 million)

Eichel won't be interested in possibly voiding his contract if he can't play. The NHL or the PA won't take on the financial risk to cover the contract.

All the posters in this thread blaming the sabres for not going along with Eichels wishes aren't taking into account the reality of the situation.

I'm responding to this^, which postulates $$ is a key factor.

Before trying to lend a constructive suggestion, let me emphasize IMO even if you overcome every other issue which = obstacle for JE to NYR, Rangers cannot at end of day take on long term cap, especially hardest to move structural cap concentrated in one player (= a salary which cannot be divided).

My interest here is as a possible broker seeking profit to NYR. Instead of JE to NYR and he stays there, theoretically something could be done, perhaps like a delayed 3 way which would solve the $$ problem.

NYR would have to have equiv salary going out, which allows JE to come over without retention [but does not address Rangers need to then immediately move him so there is cap for Fox, LaF and Kakko extensions].

So phase 1
Strome 4.5 + Geo 2.425 + Hajek .874+ + McKegg .750 + Brodzinski .750 +
Ronning .750 + acceptable conditional futures [7ths that morph into 1sts] that pay off IF JE hits production targets continuosly over the deal]*
for
Buf 2023 2nd (they have 2) and 2024 3rd [covers the above players] and JE as is.

salary is ballpark even covering this season.

phase 2
JE gets his surgery on Rangers' nickel.
JE demonstrates ability to date.
JE flipped to highest bidder, likely also including conditional picks in return.
Profit Rangers who are reimbursed in futures for $ for medical costs laid out.
Comensurate value to Buf if Eich stays healthy and produces.

* The new wrinkle here is that -- assuming not voided by cba -- that NYR pay Sabes for Eichel actual production wherever that is, not just NYR but any NHL team.


of course I know this is not what Sabes fans want.
They want overpay for Eich now, as if he had no issues, regardless of conditions, all risk and expense to whoever takes him. Dream on.

 

[Jim Bob]

not necessarily. If you do one you can’t do the other. You do ADR and he gets re injured his career is likely over.

The fall back after ADR is fusion. Eichel would not be the first pro athlete to have ADR, have the artificial disk not hold up to the pounding of their sport, and then have fusion surgery, if that is how things play out.

 

[DavidBL]

not the case.

fusion can handle the physical stress that ADR can not.

This is actually a misrepresentation from what I understand. Its not that ADR cant handle it, its that it hasn't been tested enough in like situations to see if it can. The fear is that if it can't and if it cant then there is a unknown chance that it could paralyze the subject. The Fusion is PROVEN to fail eventually which is why patients end up needing repeat surgeries, which I recall are needed on average every 10 years or so.

 

[sufferer]

I'm responding to this^, which postulates $$ is a key factor.

Before trying to lend a constructive suggestion, let me emphasize IMO even if you overcome every other issue which = obstacle for JE to NYR, Rangers cannot at end of day take on long term cap, especially hardest to move structural cap concentrated in one player (= a salary which cannot be divided).

My interest here is as a possible broker seeking profit to NYR. Instead of JE to NYR and he stays there, theoretically something could be done, perhaps like a delayed 3 way which would solve the $$ problem.

NYR would have to have equiv salary going out, which allows JE to come over without retention [but does not address Rangers need to then immediately move him so there is cap for Fox, LaF and Kakko extensions].

So phase 1
Strome 4.5 + Geo 2.425 + Hajek .874+ + McKegg .750 + Brodzinski .750 +
Ronning .750 + acceptable conditional futures [7ths that morph into 1sts] that pay off IF JE hits production targets continuosly over the deal]*
for
Buf 2023 2nd (they have 2) and 2024 3rd [covers the above players] and JE as is.

salary is ballpark even covering this season.

phase 2
JE gets his surgery on Rangers' nickel.
JE demonstrates ability to date.
JE flipped to highest bidder, likely also including conditional picks in return.
Profit Rangers who are reimbursed in futures for $ for medical costs laid out.
Comensurate value to Buf if Eich stays healthy and produces.

* The new wrinkle here is that -- assuming not voided by cba -- that NYR pay Sabes for Eichel actual production wherever that is, not just NYR but any NHL team.


of course I know this is not what Sabes fans want.
They want overpay for Eich now, as if he had no issues, regardless of conditions, all risk and expense to whoever takes him. Dream on.

Garbage.

 

[bernmeister]

Garbage.

"of course I know this is not what Sabes fans want.
They want overpay for Eich now, as if he had no issues, regardless of conditions, all risk and expense to whoever takes him. Dream on."

 

[sufferer]

"of course I know this is not what Sabes fans want.
They want overpay for Eich now, as if he had no issues, regardless of conditions, all risk and expense to whoever takes him. Dream on."

You're not getting Eichel for garbage, dream on.

 

[Jim Bob]

This is actually a misrepresentation from what I understand. Its not that ADR cant handle it, its that it hasn't been tested enough in like situations to see if it can. The fear is that if it can't and if it cant then there is a unknown chance that it could paralyze the subject. The Fusion is PROVEN to fail eventually which is why patients end up needing repeat surgeries, which I recall are needed on average every 10 years or so.

Artificial disks have failed to hold up under the pounding for other pro sports, such as a pro BMX rider that had ADR and the disk eventually failed. He then had to have fusion.

And with respect to fusion "failing", that isn't exactly the case.

The difference is that 10 years down the road, ADR has a 5% rate of follow on surgery for "normal people" and fusion has a 25% rate. That means that the majority of patients do not require follow on surgery for either surgery when it happens on someone who does not play pro hockey for a living.

Lots of people are exaggerating things to try and make their point.

 

[bernmeister]

You're not getting Eichel for garbage, dream on.

pay attention
NYR flip Eichel
are only brokers
there are real world conditions that exist here
and until Sabes
bend, buckle and break in capitulation to recognize those real conditions
they will continue to be where they are now.

I don't have a problem with you wanting fair return for Eichel
You want more than he is currently worth, which is a solid no,
and
you are unwilling to alleviate risk w/conditional picks.

The rest of the league will wait while Sabes learn

 

[MarkusKetterer]

the entire situation is just getting far too lengthy. with cancel culture, could get sabres fan to sign a petition of some sorts stating "let jack get his surgery or we stop buying tickets" or something of that nature. allow a few home games to go without ticket sails and maybe they listen? just speculating out of boredom with this all.

Home games already don’t have ticket sales

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Lol. I always love seeing people try to 'change things' by creating a silly petition that goes nowhere.

Sure! Medical professionals will change their stance by seeing 1,000 people bitch and moan about Eichel and how he is 'treated'

has nothing to do with medical professionals. they are not the ones stopping jack from getting a surgery. the GM is saying no. once the owners pockets take a hit, things change.

 

[dasaybz]

" Dream on."

Says the guy with the abomination of a trade idea. Seriously, wtf is that garbage?

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Home games already don’t have ticket sales

was gonna joke about this. ok reverse the trend and fill the arena!

 

[sufferer]

pay attention
NYR flip Eichel
are only brokers
there are real world conditions that exist here
and until Sabes
bend, buckle and break in capitulation to recognize those real conditions
they will continue to be where they are now.

I don't have a problem with you wanting fair return for Eichel
You want more than he is currently worth, which is a solid no,
and
you are unwilling to alleviate risk w/conditional picks.

The rest of the league will wait while Sabes learn

Oy vey, den what will you flip Eichel for? Da bluest of blue chipperinos?

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

has nothing to do with medical professionals. they are not the ones stopping jack from getting a surgery. the GM is saying no. once the owners pockets take a hit, things change.

Eichel is under contract though

 

[Fatass]

Home games already don’t have ticket sales

The club is winning. More winning, and the rink will start to fill up. Then maybe the ownership will change their stance on supporting Jack’s surgery, so the trade can happen with a decent return?

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Eichel is under contract though

and that has what to do with our current discussion? he is following that contract and listening to the GM saying no he cant have the surgery he wants. if the people footing the bill and lining the owners and players pockets stop forking over money because of the choice of the gm, that gm would be hard pressed to change his stance or the owner may step in over him. now i dont want shit like that to happen as it would get out of hand and we dont need people just doing whatever they want always, just boredom thoughts to speed this process along as it should not take this long.

 

[DavidBL]

Artificial disks have failed to hold up under the pounding for other pro sports, such as a pro BMX rider that had ADR and the disk eventually failed. He then had to have fusion.

And with respect to fusion "failing", that isn't exactly the case.

The difference is that 10 years down the road, ADR has a 5% rate of follow on surgery for "normal people" and fusion has a 25% rate. That means that the majority of patients do not require follow on surgery for either surgery when it happens on someone who does not play pro hockey for a living.

Lots of people are exaggerating things to try and make their point.

Thanks for the clarification. It still sounds like the ADR worked for a period if time on the BMX rider. I'm assuming he wasn't paralyzed when it did fail?

 

[Jim Bob]

Thanks for the clarification. It still sounds like the ADR worked for a period if time on the BMX rider. I'm assuming he wasn't paralyzed when it did fail?

No, he was not paralyzed. He had an artificial disk that was placed with screws to try and stand up to the pounding and it did not. My guess is that the screws may have come loose and put pressure on a nerve causing pain. The article I read did not go into detail about how exactly it failed. IIRC, he did return to sport after the fusion surgery.

Personally, I think the paralysis risk is getting overstated by people speculating on the internet to try and strengthen their pro-fusion viewpoint.

Just like I think the long term follow on surgery risk is getting overstated by people speculating on the internet to try and strengthen their pro-ADR viewpoint.