Speculation: Jack Eichel cont'd

[Frosty415]

you mean the same EK65 that has absolutely dominated this season in the first 2 games and the preseason games he played in?

Yes.

He's going to have a big year and the haters aren't ready for it.

He's healthy finally

 

[Fjordy]

he was only drafted 7th because 6 other teams have bad GMs running their clubs.

But it just can't be determined anytime soon.

 

[tomd]

you mean the same EK65 that has absolutely dominated this season in the first 2 games and the preseason games he played in?

Yes.

Be still my beating heart...2 games!!

 

[MMC]

 

[dire wolf]

he was only drafted 7th because 6 other teams have bad GMs running their clubs.

I actually won't be shocked if Eklund ultimately becomes the best player in this draft (and there were rumors that the Sabres were considering taking him at No. 1 for a little while or trading up to have a second pick in the top 5 to try to grab him), but the original point was that he is currently as coveted as Eichel was in 2015. That's just nonsense.

 

[tsujimoto74]

You realize San Jose values Eklund about the same as Buffalo valued Eichel right after they drafted him, right?

If they do, they need to fire their GM and all their scouts ASAP because they're all idiots

 

[The Duck Knight]

Sounds like Eichel is desperate enough to play in the Olympics that he doesn't mind suiting up for Buffalo again this season to make it happen.

Letting him get the surgery he wants really is the best thing for both sides.

 

[Bizz]

I actually won't be shocked if Eklund ultimately becomes the best player in this draft (and there were rumors that the Sabres were considering taking him at No. 1 for a little while or trading up to have a second pick in the top 5 to try to grab him), but the original point was that he is currently as coveted as Eichel was in 2015. That's just nonsense.

that's fair. If Eichel didn't have this back injury problem I'd have no problem trading Eklund for him, I would even add so long as it wasn't a big overpayment.

 

[57special]

Is there a point where the league/players' association step in? I don't think I've ever seen a surgery-related standoff like this before. The team, by the rules, has last say about which surgery, but you can't force a player to go under the knife. Is insurance covering Eichel's salary, since it's a situation where he can get better, but there's a labor dispute holding them up?

The whole thing (not to Sabres fans obviously, but they've at least got something to be happy about with the way they started the season) is oddly fascinating from a sports/legal standpoint.

I am just stunned that the Sabres have chosen to make an issue of the surgery. If anything, you would expect that they would want him to do the ADR, which has a significantly quicker healing time, allowing for him to be moved more quickly. It's not like Eichel is in their long term, or even medium term future. Why should they care what happens to him in years to come if the ADR goes bad(which is highly debatable)? If they had allowed Eichel to get the ADR he would be traded already.

That, asking for too high of a price, and not sharing medical info right away have delayed this trade till it is basically too late for most teams to fit him into their plans financially. KA (or whoever is making the decisions here) have screwed this thing up royally.

 

[Jagemon]

Letting him get the surgery he wants really is the best thing for both sides.

Barring the potential issue with whos paying his salary if things go south.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Is there any way the NHLPA could step in and negotiate an additional piece of the contract that says the Sabres don't need to pay Eichels salary if a neutral medical party deems him unfit to play after the surgery he wants ? If this proposition didn't make it obvious, I am not a lawyer

 

[Irie]

Is there any way the NHLPA could step in and negotiate an additional piece of the contract that says the Sabres don't need to pay Eichels salary if a neutral medical party deems him unfit to play after the surgery he wants ? If this proposition didn't make it obvious, I am not a lawyer

I am just stunned that the Sabres have chosen to make an issue of the surgery. If anything, you would expect that they would want him to do the ADR, which has a significantly quicker healing time, allowing for him to be moved more quickly.

It is likely the insurance issue.

If the procedure would invalidate the insurance policy, the Sabres would could be on the hook for an extra 32 million of Eichels contract if he never plays again. (It would amount to 50 million vs 17.5 million)

Eichel won't be interested in possibly voiding his contract if he can't play. The NHL or the PA won't take on the financial risk to cover the contract.

All the posters in this thread blaming the sabres for not going along with Eichels wishes aren't taking into account the reality of the situation.

 

[Legion34]

It is likely the insurance issue.

If the procedure would invalidate the insurance policy, the Sabres would could be on the hook for an extra 32 million of Eichels contract if he never plays again. (It would amount to 50 million vs 17.5 million)

Eichel won't be interested in possibly voiding his contract if he can't play. The NHL or the PA won't take on the financial risk to cover the contract.

All the posters in this thread blaming the sabres for not going along with Eichels wishes aren't taking into account the reality of the situation.

I’m no expert in the situation but isnt the whole thing that they can try his first choice.

then. If it doesn’t work. They can do the fusion?


Like he could have already had his choice. It fails and now has the fusion already?

 

[JoemAvs]

I’m no expert in the situation but isnt the whole thing that they can try his first choice.

then. If it doesn’t work. They can do the fusion?


Like he could have already had his choice. It fails and now has the fusion already?

If it fails, he might be paralyzed. Thats the whole problem with replacement surgery and why the Sabres doctors don't want it. Disk replacement is perfectly fine for your Average Joe. But its not sufficiently tested on high level athletes that put their necks at the risk of very hard hits and collisions at very high speed. That artificial disk could actually do quite a lot of damage in there if things go wrong. And odds are insurance won't cover that if things go bad. In fact they will probably not cover anything neck related if they do a procedure that is not covered (maybe there are even provisions that it gets voided entirely if they perform a procedure that is not covered). Thats the issue at hand if I understand things correctly.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I am just stunned that the Sabres have chosen to make an issue of the surgery. If anything, you would expect that they would want him to do the ADR, which has a significantly quicker healing time, allowing for him to be moved more quickly. It's not like Eichel is in their long term, or even medium term future. Why should they care what happens to him in years to come if the ADR goes bad(which is highly debatable)? If they had allowed Eichel to get the ADR he would be traded already.

That, asking for too high of a price, and not sharing medical info right away have delayed this trade till it is basically too late for most teams to fit him into their plans financially. KA (or whoever is making the decisions here) have screwed this thing up royally.

The reason the Sabres are not letting him get the surgery he wants is simply because there’s no data to back it up. I don’t blame the Sabres for not wanting a $50M guinea pig. I’m sure if he was making league minimum they’d allow it to happen. It sounds harsh, but owners didn’t become rich by wasting money.

Even if the Sabres allowed it to happen, teams could just turn around and say “he had a surgery with no data behind it. So we want him for a reduced price (fully healthy or not)”. And I imagine that these offers would be just slightly better than the offers for an injured no surgery yet Eichel. Like an extra B prospect or 3rd/4th rounder better.

 

[Legion34]

If it fails, he might be paralyzed. Thats the whole problem with replacement surgery and why the Sabres doctors don't want it. Disk replacement is perfectly fine for your Average Joe. But its not sufficiently tested on high level athletes that put their necks at the risk of very hard hits and collisions at very high speed. That artificial disk could actually do quite a lot of damage in there if things go wrong. And odds are insurance won't cover that if things go bad. In fact they will probably not cover anything neck related if they do a procedure that is not covered (maybe there are even provisions that it gets voided entirely if they perform a procedure that is not covered). Thats the issue at hand if I understand things correctly.

hmmmm. Fair enough. I have only ever seen the one side. This Isn’t my area of expertise. I was under the impression that no NHL but multiple minor college players. UFC fighters and footballs players have had it.

I wonder why he would want to go with a surgery that could leave him paralyzed. He specifically talked about not wanting to have a second surgery which a fusion pretty much gaurantee and life after hockey.

I’m no expert in procedure but it’s pretty crazy that a guy who specifically talked about considering his life after hockey would consider a surgery that could leave him paralyzed

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Sounds like Eichel is desperate enough to play in the Olympics that he doesn't mind suiting up for Buffalo again this season to make it happen.

Letting him get the surgery he wants really is the best thing for both sides.

It's perplexing. I can't understand why they won't let him get the treatment he's most comfortable with. It's his health we're talking about here after all. I wonder if they're just taking a stand to avoid setting a precedent where players can dictate their own treatment in all cases.

 

[tsujimoto74]

hmmmm. Fair enough. I have only ever seen the one side. This Isn’t my area of expertise. I was under the impression that no NHL but multiple minor college players. UFC fighters and footballs players have had it.

I wonder why he would want to go with a surgery that could leave him paralyzed. He specifically talked about not wanting to have a second surgery which a fusion pretty much gaurantee and life after hockey.

I’m no expert in procedure but it’s pretty crazy that a guy who specifically talked about considering his life after hockey would consider a surgery that could leave him paralyzed

No, 1 UFC fighter has had ADR. My understanding is that his career ended shortly after he recovered (due to an unrelated medical issue). The only athletes there's real data for are people who play games like golf.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

No, 1 UFC fighter has had ADR. My understanding is that his career ended shortly after he recovered (due to an unrelated medical issue). The only athletes there's real data for are people who play games like golf.

Just because surgeries are not made public does not mean they dont get done. ADRs have been around for over 20 years there are professional athletes that get them including hockey players, just no NHL player has gotten one

 

[DeagleJenkins]

can we just start a petition to get this overwith? get enough people to sign and buffalo lets him get the surgery then trade him after woohoo!!

 

[LeHab]

No, 1 UFC fighter has had ADR. My understanding is that his career ended shortly after he recovered (due to an unrelated medical issue). The only athletes there's real data for are people who play games like golf.

Chris Weidman shared his experience in this video:



Sounds like an ad, don't know if he is getting paid for this.

 

[Djp]

Just because surgeries are not made public does not mean they dont get done. ADRs have been around for over 20 years there are professional athletes that get them including hockey players, just no NHL player has gotten one

if Eichel wasn’t a hockey player he coukd get it….but the surgeons understand the risks in this procedure to pro athletes doing things a regular person isn’t doing.

most doctors say no on this surgery. The Sabres doctor was one of the early creators of this procedure.

 

[Fatass]

Just because surgeries are not made public does not mean they dont get done. ADRs have been around for over 20 years there are professional athletes that get them including hockey players, just no NHL player has gotten one

It certainly appears several interested teams are fine with supporting Jack in his choice of surgery. The Sabres need to accept that moving the risk of any player needing ADR or fusion will greatly reduce the return.

 

[Fatass]

if Eichel wasn’t a hockey player he coukd get it….but the surgeons understand the risks in this procedure to pro athletes doing things a regular person isn’t doing.

most doctors say no on this surgery. The Sabres doctor was one of the early creators of this procedure.

The default surgery if ADA fails is fusion, so what exactly is the risk to getting ADR first?

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

can we just start a petition to get this overwith? get enough people to sign and buffalo lets him get the surgery then trade him after woohoo!!

lol wut