Player Discussion Jack Campbell

[Soundwave]

Most people on here don't really understand cap dynamics.

They just think "oh no big whoop, we'll just buy him out" like a teenager adding charges to their parent's credit card.

What they don't realize is what like $7 million in potential dead cap means to the next GM next summer, what it means for next season's trade deadline (where that would be more like $20+ million in potential cap space) because frankly again most people don't understand cap dynamics past "well how does it affect the team this year? Or even this week?".

You can see that with the Connor Brown signing too where you had a bunch of people cheering the move and now are starting to realize "oh shit, actually that bonus is really bad" and have sobered up from the "who cares about next year! Whooooo hooo we got Brown" idiocy.

If there was a chance to salvage something of Campbell without having to buy him out, the team should have exhausted all options in doing so, and they should have known better ... a guy who is that mentally fragile was never going to take a AHL demotion well, so what's the point of even doing it.

 

[GOilers88]

Most people on here don't really understand cap dynamics.

They just think "oh no big whoop, we'll just buy him out" like a teenager adding charges to their parent's credit card.

What they don't realize is what like $7 million in potential dead cap means to the next GM next summer, what it means for next season's trade deadline (where that would be more like $20+ million in potential cap space) because frankly again most people don't understand cap dynamics past "well how does it affect the team this year? Or even this week?".

You can see that with the Connor Brown signing too where you had a bunch of people cheering the move and now are starting to realize "oh shit, actually that bonus is really bad" and have sobered up from the "who cares about next year! Whooooo hooo we got Brown" idiocy.

pretty sure everyone understands full well that buyouts and dead cap aren't beneficial.

 

[Soundwave]

pretty sure everyone understands full well that buyouts and dead cap aren't beneficial.

I don't think people really do actually. They will realize how bad it is next summer fully, Jeff Jackson better understand this shit right now, because Holland ain't going to be here next year to blame but Jackson's ass is going to be on a very, very hot seat.

When people just say "it's no big deal if we just buy it out". No, actually it is a pretty big f***ing deal.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't think people really do actually. They will realize how bad it is next summer fully, Jeff Jackson better understand this shit right now, because Holland ain't going to be here next year to blame but Jackson's ass is going to be on a very, very hot seat.

When people just say "it's no big deal if we just buy it out". No, actually it is a pretty big f***ing deal.

You're right. We're all unaware of the negatives of buying players out and having dead cap. You're the guy who gets it though.

 

[brentashton]

Rick DiPietro on line one for mr Boy gm

This, honestly, made me laugh out loud!

 

[Drivesaitl]

pretty sure everyone understands full well that buyouts and dead cap aren't beneficial.

Trouble is people want baubles whether they can be paid for or not. Some fans operate on that as well. Deferred cost, oh well, charge up the credit card and worry about it some other time.

People spent so much time considering that Hollland for once was being creative in a contract that several stopped to pause whether it was any good idea at all. It created a false view in a win where we got a topsix player for next to nothing this season. The trouble for one is Connor Brown is not a topsix player anyway, and next that he's a damaged bill of goods. There was all kinds of risks here, they were evident from start, but there be riverboat gamblers here.

Bird in hand was Kostin. That was my play at the table. Retain him.

 

[Ninety7]

This is the NHL.

Interesting to see some people asking for empathy for Campbell when they themselves have been pretty brutal on players who have underperformed or left in the past.

 

[bucks_oil]

I don't think people really do actually. They will realize how bad it is next summer fully, Jeff Jackson better understand this shit right now, ...

Lol... I'm sure he hasn't given it a second thought Soundwave... I can't imagine a time when a former player agent and Asst GM has had to consider the practical implications of the salary cap.

 

[Soundwave]

You're right. We're all unaware of the negatives of buying players out and having dead cap. You're the guy who gets it though.

Most people don't understand the next GM is going to be handcuffed potentially next summer.

It was pretty evident in the Brown signing thread too, NOW you can see a whole lot of light bulbs going off in a lot of posts going "oh shit ... this is actually not good at all because this means XYZ".

People are starting to understand now what I was talking about 3-4 months ago.

Buying out Campbell + Brown's bonus overage going into next year is not just "not great" it's a disaster if Jackson lets that happen. A disaster. If he has any intelligence at all he will act proactively now to avoid that from happening.

For starters play some kind of goddamn defensive system here, bring Campbell back up and at least give the dude a game or two behind a team that's even trying to play defense.

We know the guy's issues are 90% mental. Stop f***ing around with him mentally and give him something to work with for crying out loud.

Of course demoting him to the AHL was going to crush him mentally, him having to call his girlfriend and say "yeah sorry babe, I'm going down to the ride the AHL bus" ... like what did you really think was going to happen here? That was going to work out well?

 

[bucks_oil]

Trouble is people want baubles whether they can be paid for or not. Some fans operate on that as well. Deferred cost, oh well, charge up the credit card and worry about it some other time.

People spent so much time considering that Hollland for once was being creative in a contract that several stopped to pause whether it was any good idea at all. It created a false view in a win where we got a topsix player for next to nothing this season. The trouble for one is Connor Brown is not a topsix player anyway, and next that he's a damaged bill of goods. There was all kinds of risks here, they were evident from start, but there be riverboat gamblers here.

Bird in hand was Kostin. That was my play at the table. Retain him.

Who were you giving up to retain Kostin? McLeod, Bouchard, or ???

Practical answers only please... www.capfriendly.com if you need to consult a friend.

Brown was a special case... it was his injury that allowed us to circumvent cap with the large bonus next year. That wasn't on the table for other signings available in the $750K price range we had available.

Kostin was asking $2M and he got it.

 

[K1984]

I’m surprised that people are actually upset that Campbell got waived?

I guess they just want the opportunity to complain about anything

Some people firmly entrenched themselves in their opinion that Campbell is better than Skinner and deem it easier to double down rather than just admit that they were wrong.

 

[Soundwave]

Some people firmly entrenched themselves in their opinion that Campbell is better than Skinner and deem it easier to double down rather than just admit that they were wrong.

If it makes you feel better I don't care about either of these goalies. f*** em both and I don't think you win anything with either one and I'd gladly drive either one to the airport for a real no.1.

I just don't see how any logical person could think embarrassing Campbell was some how going to help him knowing what a mentally fragile person he is.

If I have an office of 10 people, and I'm in charge and the office is performing like shit, not getting their jobs done, I mean want to kind hold off on making an example of the one person I know has serious mental issues in the office. Chewing them out in front of everyone isn't going to do anything positive.

 

[Spawn]

I don't think people really do actually. They will realize how bad it is next summer fully, Jeff Jackson better understand this shit right now, because Holland ain't going to be here next year to blame but Jackson's ass is going to be on a very, very hot seat.

When people just say "it's no big deal if we just buy it out". No, actually it is a pretty big f***ing deal.

Who is saying it’s no big deal? It’s a shit situation that is going to cost this organization moving forward. It’s either going to cost dead space via a buyout or significant assets to trade the deal away. Pick your poison. Both scenarios suck. But the likely reality is that there is no reclaiming this player here. There is no building his value back up to trade him.

 

[Soundwave]

Who is saying it’s no big deal? It’s a shit situation that is going to cost this organization moving forward. It’s either going to cost dead space via a buyout or significant assets to trade the deal away. Pick your poison. Both scenarios suck. But the likely reality is that there is no reclaiming this player here. There is no building his value back up to trade him.

It's a disaster if there's 7 million in dead cap next year.

Like we're talking worse than anything Chiarelli did here type disaster.

Jackson, if if has half a goddamn brain needs to act proactively here to prevent that (we know Holland won't).

We need to pay as much of Brown's overages this year. If that means Foegele and McLeod have to be gone for cheaper replacements, so be it.

I will say we still need to give Campbell a fair shot here behind a team that actually is playing some kind of defense and see if we can boost his numbers to a level where he at least can be a cap dump in a deal. Not because I give two f***s about Soup. We know he is 90% mental with him, if we can get him feeling OK about himself it could save us from six years of f***ing dead cap, especially $2+ million in dead cap the years we need to sign freaking McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Who were you giving up to retain Kostin? McLeod, Bouchard, or ???

Practical answers only please... www.capfriendly.com if you need to consult a friend.

Brown was a special case... it was his injury that allowed us to circumvent cap with the large bonus next year. That wasn't on the table for other signings available in the $750K price range we had available.

Kostin was asking $2M and he got it.

Doesn't have to be contained to that. Ceci or Kulak were moveable. Maybe even the Campbell contract could have been pot sweetened.

I'm never going to be great at cap analysis though my friend.

McLeod was a consideration as his play dropped off. Foegele was another for me, albeit admittedly a wrong consideration in that Foegele has rebounded well.

 

[Soundwave]

Lets be honest who doesn't really expect this to happen

The Oilers take on a dumb 6 year dead cap penalty for no great reason.

Campbell goes signs somewhere else for league minimum like Minnesota and slowly but surely rebuilds himself into a ok .900-.905 goalie while we're stuck paying the tab for his contract in dead cap for years and years to come.

Not dissimilar shit that happened to us with Dubnyk and Talbot who we chased out of town here and claimed were finished/toast.

Instead of destroying goalies' confidence, maybe, just maybe some thought should be put into "how do we build their confidence back up"?

 

[TheNumber4]

Kostin and Yam both suck

McYams sayin Yams sucks? Has hell frozen over? Lol.

 

[McTonyBrar]

McYams sayin Yams sucks? Has hell frozen over? Lol.

Lol well without top 6 time he certainly does suck and I won't lie/super biased ahahha. I love the player but I know what he is. A decent third line support player

 

[ujju2]

Lol well without top 6 time he certainly does suck and I won't lie/super biased ahahha. I love the player but I know what he is. A decent third line support player

You've contradicted yourself like twice here. If he sucks without top-6 time, then he can't be a decent 3rd liner, virtually by definition. And likewise, if he's a decent 3rd liner, then it stands to reason that he would be more likely to suck as a top-6er than the opposite.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Management deserves shit for signing Campbell but Campbell is still expected to perform at a certain level and he's not once consistently done even the bare minimum. They demoted him to get him some confidence playing against weaker competition and that has still proven to be too much for him. He needs to step away from the game if he's that mentally broken.

The Oilers defense could absolutely be better, I don't think anyone would argue that, but they've still done a reasonable job in suppressing high danger chances and he still couldn't cut it.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

It's baffling how one player can fall so dramatically from one season to the next. As soon as he signed with the oilers it ruined his career for some reason.

 

[Soundwave]

Management deserves shit for signing Campbell but Campbell is still expected to perform at a certain level and he's not once consistently done even the bare minimum. They demoted him to get him some confidence playing against weaker competition and that has still proven to be too much for him. He needs to step away from the game if he's that mentally broken.

The Oilers defense could absolutely be better, I don't think anyone would argue that, but they've still done a reasonable job in suppressing high danger chances and he still couldn't cut it.

If you want to call that first 10 games "good defense", you must be smoking the greatest weed on the planet.

The Oilers defense prior to like the Seattle game where Woodcroft was basically zombie coach was easily the worst defense I've seen this team play since the Dallas Eakins Decade of Darkness level D. And as an Oilers fan I've seen every flavor of "bad defense" imaginable.

Constant stupid turn overs, constant odd-man rushes, constant give aways, letting players tip pucks in front of the goalie at will. "Preventing high danger chances" my ass. That's one of those things where you need to actually watch the games and not just look at a spreadsheet.

 

[TheNumber4]

Management deserves shit for signing Campbell but Campbell is still expected to perform at a certain level and he's not once consistently done even the bare minimum. They demoted him to get him some confidence playing against weaker competition and that has still proven to be too much for him. He needs to step away from the game if he's that mentally broken.

The Oilers defense could absolutely be better, I don't think anyone would argue that, but they've still done a reasonable job in suppressing high danger chances and he still couldn't cut it.

If Campbell LTIR Retires himself citing mental issues, he still gets paid right?

 

[bucks_oil]

Doesn't have to be contained to that. Ceci or Kulak were moveable. Maybe even the Campbell contract could have been pot sweetened.

I'm never going to be great at cap analysis though my friend.

McLeod was a consideration as his play dropped off. Foegele was another for me, albeit admittedly a wrong consideration in that Foegele has rebounded well.

Yeah, no problem, not asking you to be cap expert, just accept that one of the following things would have needed to happen to retain Kostin.... and which one would you choose?
A) McLeod walks
B) Bouchard walks and replaced with UFA up to $2M
C) Kulak or Ceci traded and replaced with a league min guy (like Niemelainen)
D) Foegele traded and replaced with a league min guy full time (like Hamblin)
E) We spent our 1st++ to get rid of Campbell (and replace with a UFA/trade Goalie up to $3M)

Those were the options required to free up the $2M we needed. Without the benefit of hindsight (Campbell), they were all substandard choices.

I'm just making the point that you can't keep saying you would have kept him without saying how and offering up what you would have sacrificed.

 

[TheNumber4]

It's baffling how one player can fall so dramatically from one season to the next. As soon as he signed with the oilers it ruined his career for some reason.

It's so baffling we should investigate his ass for collusion with the Leafs, it'd void his contract. Send Brad in undercover, get that DIRT.